*** Daredevil (Man Without Fear) ***

over_clocked

Nope. I already ignore Daredevil until he's the last one standing so Avoid won't help him.

wirius

His trap tiles perfectly mimic a blind guy throwing random punches and hoping the bad guys happen to put their face in them.

Unknown

Also, as a street level vigilante, he's worthless against goons, thugs, and mercs - as he should be, obviously.

GuntherBlobel

Ambush is my Hulk killer. I never question it. (Kinda like how Rage of the Panther is my everyone killer.)

Unknown

GuntherBlobel wrote:

Ambush is my Hulk killer. I never question it. (Kinda like how Rage of the Panther is my everyone killer.)

Ambush has certainly killed off opponent Hulks for me a fair number of times. It is, however, still too unreliable to be depended on. Plus his tile-clearing move has a chance to totally negate that ambush tile.

Unknown

during some crazy scaling of pve matches, i "try my luck" while bringing a dare devil along with level5 for red skill (ambush). And by sheer luck, it could almost OHKO when opp matches it. Quite fun and sometimes turn the tide for you too. wahahhah

GuntherBlobel

LeTrollLer wrote:

GuntherBlobel wrote:

Ambush is my Hulk killer. I never question it. (Kinda like how Rage of the Panther is my everyone killer.)

Ambush has certainly killed off opponent Hulks for me a fair number of times. It is, however, still too unreliable to be depended on. Plus his tile-clearing move has a chance to totally negate that ambush tile.

That's what makes it fun! The risk, the reward

I also like when you get a triple Ambush match. Daredevil suddenly realizes his Street Fighter potential and busts out Ryu's helicopter kick to down everyone in sight.

Unknown

Right now Daredevil had the problem old 2* hawkeye had, his scaling is insane but you'll never pull off any of his moves.

-If MPQ wants to be lazy, make daredevil's traps exactly like Nick Fury's. Simple change.

If MPQ wants to put in some work:

- In order for them to become playable, they'll need to have a reduced AP cost. Maybe radar sense can "tick" each turn, giving him AP, giving the opponent a reason to care about daredevil?

-I think his traps need a bigger 'radius'(Daredevil sets up a tripwire over an entire horizontal line of tiles on the board) or be able to chain-react off one another. I think X-Force Yellow's "interrupt me" mechanic should be used when his traps are disarmed maybe..

-Placing traps could work as well, it(along with many other things) have made 2* Hawkeye not-garbage.

-I think unpredictability would really help his traps(not knowing what color they'll be).

I don't know a ton about the character(lore or powerwise) or I'd suggest more.

CrookedKnight

One, make them un-overwriteable. Two, have increased levels place more traps that all disappear when any one is activated, Fury-style (fewer than Demolition, though, and without a stacking effect).

Unknown

After playing this game for too many hours I can predict which match the AI will take with about 70% accuracy. If DD just let us place the traps and put them on any color that would be a huge boost.

Also, not on the list, why the hell does a trap get deactivated by a strike tile anyway? The icons for each could exist simultaneously with 0 problems. Was it some random determination to DDs power level that traps and strike tiles can't exist together? If so, why allow overwrite at all? So we know where the trap is because it's the only red without a strike tile on it, that's still better than being destroyed. If not, then what excuse is there for this tile behavior? Allowing traps to exist on top of special tiles would go a long way to improving DDs effectiveness.

Nonce Equitaur 2

Instead of Overwriting ....

When a trapped tile would be overwritten / destroyed, it doesn't work on that tile, and the trap becomes visible.
If Daredevil matches his own visible trap, it turns invisible again. as it moves.
Visible traps can be overwritten / destroyed.

For example
If Daken's strike tile lands on a trap, he doesn't get it.
If Cap's shield targets a trapped tile, he gets the effect but loses the countdown.
Iron Hammer 5 would destroy everything but the trap tiles, and make them visible.
If a goon tried to place a countdown on a trap, the AP is lost with no countdown.

If a trap could nullify an effect at the price of becoming visible, that would make them much more useful.

Nonce Equitaur 2

Here's a rebuild for him. I've lowered his costs, and halved the effect. That lets him put more traps on the board. Traps work well for Nick Fury.
The new mechanic makes him more useful against goons, since it puts tiles on the board that can disrupt the placement of a Counter. He's also more useful against Daken and board shakers.

NEW MECHANIC
Friendly invisible trap -- White crosshair (current).
Friendly visible trap -- Gray crosshair.
Enemy visible trap -- Black crosshair.
Invisible trap tiles that would be overwritten or destroyed are instead made visible. Enemy effects for that tile are lost.
Visible enemy traps can be overwritten or destroyed. Matching visible enemy traps disarms them.
Friendly visible traps, when matched, will turn invisible as they move.

[anchor=daredevil3]Daredevil (Classic)[/anchor]
3 Star Rarity (Rare) Discussion link. Wiki link.
At Max Level: HP: 6800 Tile damage: 11/61/70/79/12/13/3.5

Radar Sense - Purple 5
Daredevil's heightened senses let him strike first, terrifying the enemy. Creates an Random Basic Trap tile that, when matched by an enemy, steals 1 AP from . If you match the tile, it steals 1 AP and changes locations. Enemies cannot initially see the trap, but some powers will detect them.

Level 2: Trap tile instead steals 1 AP from all colors on enemy match. Level 3: A second trap tile is also created that steals 1 AP from

on enemy match.
Level 4: Match by the team steals 1 AP and changes locations.
Level 5: Two Trap tiles that each steal 1 AP from all colors on an enemy match are created.

Equalizer - Blue 5
Billy Club in hand, Daredevil prowls the battlefield, waiting to even the odds. Create a Blue trap tile that, when matched by an enemy, stuns for 1 turns. if you match the tile, it generates 1 Blue AP and changes locations. Enemies cannot initially see the trap, but some powers will detect them.

Level 2: On a friendly match, generates 2 Blue AP Level 3: Stuns for 2 turns. Level 4: If you match the tile, it also stuns the opponent for 1 turn and changes locations. Level 5: Stuns for 3 turns.

Ambush - Red 5
Daredevil lurks in the shadow, ready to strike. Creates a Red Trap tile that, when matched by the enemy, deals 236 damage. If you match the tile, the enemy takes 24 damage and it changes locations. Enemies cannot initially see the trap, but some powers will detect them.

Level 2: 331 damage on enemy match. Level 3: 425 damage on enemy match. Level 4: 520 damage on enemy match. Level 5: 615 damage on enemy match.

Max Level: Enemy takes 4520 damage on enemy match / Enemy takes 148 damage on player match

wirius

Most of us know at this point that Daredevil is equivalent to a poor 2*. Lets look at the main reason why. Design wise, a little randomness and variability in your game can result in suspense, and a fun payoff. The problem with Daredevil's abilities are the level and consistency of his variability.

1. Traps rarely go off
2. You have no control over them, and oftentimes they go off at the worst times (Crotch kicking an enemy with 1k hp left for example)
3. Useless against thugs
4. Traps are easily overridden or smashed away

So why should I ever spend my abilities on Daredevil when he hardly pays out? You shouldn't. But his trap system is pretty cool, and a great innovative idea from the designer. So how can we fix this? Lower the variability, and make it more consistent. Here are Daredevil's abilities.

Radar Sense - Purple 11
Daredevil's heightened senses let him strike first, terrifying the enemy. Creates an Random Basic Trap tile that, when matched by an enemy, steals 2 AP from all colors. If you match the tile, it steals 1 Purple AP and changes locations. Enemies cannot see the tile.
Level 2: Steals 3 AP on enemy match.
Level 3: Steals 4 AP on enemy match.
Level 4: Steals 5 AP on enemy match.
Level 5: Steals 6 AP on enemy match.

Equalizer - Blue 7
Billy Club in hand, Daredevil prowls the battlefield, waiting to even the odds. Create a Blue trap tile that, when matched by an enemy, stuns for 2 turns. if you match the tile, it generates 1 Blue AP and changes locations. Enemies cannot see the tile.
Level 2: Stuns for 3 turns.
Level 3: Stuns for 4 turns.
Level 4: Stuns for 5 turns.
Level 5: Stuns for 6 turns.

Ambush - Red 7
Daredevil lurks in the shadow, ready to strike. Creates a Red Trap tile that, when matched by the enemy, deals 473 damage. If you match the tile, the enemy takes 24 damage and it changes locations. Enemies cannot see the tile.
Level 2: 662 damage on enemy match.
Level 3: 851 damage on enemy match.
Level 4: 1041 damage on enemy match.
Level 5: 1230 damage on enemy match.
Max Level: Enemy takes 9040 damage on enemy match / Enemy takes 148 damage on player match

****NEW*DESIGN********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

The idea is instead of ONE trap, have all of the abilities make a few traps, but at lower power.

Radar Sense - Purple 11
Daredevil's heightened senses let him strike first, terrifying the enemy. Creates an Random Basic Trap tile that, when matched by an enemy, steals 2 AP from all colors. If you match the tile, it steals 1 Purple AP and changes locations. Enemies cannot see the tile.
Level 2: Steals 3 AP on enemy match.
Level 3: Creates 2 traps.
Level 4: Steals 4 ap on enemy match.
Level 5: Creates 3 traps.

Argument for purple change: At five covers, this makes it more useful then OBW, a 2*'s ap steal. If the enemy matches all three, you'll be jumping for joy. This is a rare event however. Most likely, one trap will be sprung in the match, which is slightly better than the 2* steal. This SHOULD be the case as the player that lays the trap has no control over the trap, and its basically a countdown tile that may never go off. Plus, you can start aiming to match them if you want if thugs are around.


Equalizer - Blue 7
Billy Club in hand, Daredevil prowls the battlefield, waiting to even the odds. Create a Blue trap tile that, when matched by an enemy, stuns for 2 turns. if you match the tile, it generates stuns for 1 turn and CONSUMES the trap. Enemies cannot see the tile.
Level 2: Stuns for 3 turns.
Level 3: Creates 2 traps.
Level 4: Stuns for 4 turns.
Level 5: Creates 3 traps.

Argument for blue change: Stuns on traps are generally terrible, because stuns are often about targeted timing in the game. I need to stun X character for one turn so I can stop his ability, get that last match I need, and finish him off. You need to be able to match it for that quick 1 turn stun, and if they match it, awesome. Having it return blue ap to you when you just spent 7 to cast it is...silly.


Ambush - Red 7
Daredevil lurks in the shadow, ready to strike. Creates a Red Trap tile that, when matched by the enemy, deals 473 damage. If you match the tile, the enemy takes 24 damage and loses 1 red ap. Enemies cannot see the tile.
Level 2: 662 damage on enemy match.
Level 3: Creates 2 traps.
Level 4: 1041 damage on enemy match.
Level 5: Creates 3 traps
Max Level: Enemy takes 3025 damage on enemy match / Enemy loses 1 red ap on player match, plus 148 damage

Argument for red change: This was obviously intended to be Daredevil's top ability. However, its WASTED more often then not. This keeps the traps very high damaging for seven ap, you'll likely only get the opponent to match one, and if the damage is wasted, you still have other opportunities. If they DON'T match it and you need red, you can match it to make the opponent lose 1 red ap, thus still acting as a red counter.

End argument: The whole point is to make Daredevil more consistent, while still giving the player and his opponent the suspense and mind games the champ was always meant to have. Traps are rarely matched as singles, and there are PLENTY of counters in the game such as board wipes, strike tile overwrites, and defense tile overwrites. And of course, all numbers would have to actually be mathed out, but the point was a guide for direction. Tell me what you guys think!

Pylgrim

This is a good idea. Fury's Demolition proved that traps, when plentiful, can be truly frightening.

wirius

Thanks for the feedback. I got the idea off of fury, but thought I would like to see no more than three traps to give Daredevil his own distinction, and keep his theme. I really LIKE the trap mechanic, but currently, I would rather bring modern Hawkeye or OBW over Daredevil any day. That's pretty sad for a 3*.

Nonce Equitaur 2

Pretty good ... but you should put this in the Daredevil discussion thread or in the Character Engineering thread

Meanwhile, I see two solutions. First -- what you did -- more traps that are weaker but for the same cost. I opted for a different method -- slightly lower cost for traps that are more durable.

NEW MECHANIC
Friendly invisible trap -- White crosshair (current).
Friendly visible trap -- Gray crosshair.
Enemy visible trap -- Black crosshair.
Invisible trap tiles that would be overwritten or destroyed are instead made visible. Enemy effects for that tile are lost.
Visible enemy traps can be overwritten or destroyed. Matching visible enemy traps disarms them.
Friendly visible traps, when matched, will turn invisible as they move.

[anchor=daredevil3]Daredevil (Classic)[/anchor]
3 Star Rarity (Rare) Discussion link. Wiki link.
At Max Level: HP: 6800 Tile damage: 11/61/70/79/12/13/3.5

Radar Sense - Purple 5
Daredevil's heightened senses let him strike first, terrifying the enemy. Creates an Random Basic Trap tile that, when matched by an enemy, steals 1 AP from . If you match the tile, it steals 1 AP and changes locations. Enemies cannot initially see the trap, but some powers will detect them.

Level 2: Trap tile instead steals 1 AP from all colors on enemy match. Level 3: A second trap tile is also created that steals 1 AP from

on enemy match.
Level 4: Match by the team steals 1 AP and changes locations.
Level 5: Two Trap tiles that each steal 1 AP from all colors on an enemy match are created.

Equalizer - Blue 5
Billy Club in hand, Daredevil prowls the battlefield, waiting to even the odds. Create a Blue trap tile that, when matched by an enemy, stuns for 1 turns. if you match the tile, it generates 1 Blue AP and changes locations. Enemies cannot initially see the trap, but some powers will detect them.

Level 2: On a friendly match, generates 2 Blue AP Level 3: Stuns for 2 turns. Level 4: If you match the tile, it also stuns the opponent for 1 turn and changes locations. Level 5: Stuns for 3 turns.

Ambush - Red 5
Daredevil lurks in the shadow, ready to strike. Creates a Red Trap tile that, when matched by the enemy, deals 236 damage. If you match the tile, the enemy takes 24 damage and it changes locations. Enemies cannot initially see the trap, but some powers will detect them.

Level 2: 331 damage on enemy match. Level 3: 425 damage on enemy match. Level 4: 520 damage on enemy match. Level 5: 615 damage on enemy match.

Max Level: Enemy takes 4520 damage on enemy match / Enemy takes 148 damage on player match

wirius

Thanks Nonce. I posted it in the engineering section, thanks. So you went the route that traps had a process of recovery, much less powerful, and cheaper. Cool ideas too!

Unknown

When reading the answer to the question about trap tiles in the recent Q&A, I thought of something similar to this. I think they were talking about exactly this since they've seen how DD's traps were a fail and played with the numbers when designing Nick Fury. If they are hard to trigger, just create a bunch of them instead of one. That's a very simple and effective solution to the problem. Fury's Demolition is like a funbalanced version of DD's Ambush.

Konman

Should Daken's Chemical Reaction be able to disarm DD blue trap tiles, when Daken changes blue tiles to green. If Thor can't color change a trap away, I say that Daken shouldn't either.

Unknown

Konman wrote:

Should Daken's Chemical Reaction be able to disarm DD blue trap tiles, when Daken changes blue tiles to green. If Thor can't color change a trap away, I say that Daken shouldn't either.

Are you sure about that? AFAIK, Thor can overwrite trap tiles.