Upcoming PVE Mission Points Change

Adam12

simonsez wrote:

Adam12 wrote:

You can still play the game as much as you like. There's nothing stopping you from continuing to play without waiting 8 hours between refreshes.

Are you being disingenuous, or letting us know you have no idea how to properly play PvE?

The argument was made that we should keep 2.5 hour refresh times and everyone should just choose to play suboptimally. Why not move to 8 hour refresh times, which most of the community prefers, and let those who wish to play more often be the ones to choose to play suboptimally?

simonsez

Bowgentle wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Demiurge_Miles wrote:

For this upcoming PVE it's going to take 6 clears to grind a node down to 1. it should help keep top players from all having the same score by letting them get a non-trivial amount of points towards the end of a sub.

I can't help but wonder what the intended strategy is for grinding down lv395 nodes a dozen+ times during the final grind.

To seperate the guys who can do that from the ones that can't, to create point differences to avoid tiebreakers?

That's not a grinding strategy... I was thinking more along the lines of buying health packs to extend the grind, to give you that separation.

I didn't want to be the first one to have to say "health packs", so I'm glad Ark finally went there...

simonsez

Adam12 wrote:

let those who wish to play more often be the ones to choose to play suboptimally?

Generally, when one plays a game, the goal is to win. Playing suboptimally is something you only do when you're playing against a child.

thanos8587

ark123 wrote:

thanos8587 wrote:

im just trying to imagine a 24 hour sub:

one clear at hour zero
one clear at hour eight
one clear at hour sixteen
grind like mad at hour 23

im almost imagining that the points gathered in the last hour could exceed the points from the first three clears combined meaning some crazy leaderboard action since everyone will likely have hit their first three clears and be in the same relative point position going into the final hour. let the insanity begin!!!

Sure, if you only needed 5 health packs to grind down the nodes after they're scaled to 395, this would be the case.

to the guy who buys the most health packs go the spoils???

anyway, i hope they get the progression points right since fewer clears will be available which is likely all ill be going for. i dont think im really interested in the mad dash grinding. scaling will also be interesting. gl errybody.

simonsez

SnowcaTT wrote:

all of the sudden the grinders with lesser rosters won't be able to beat out the slightly less grindy with much better rosters.

Of course this all assumes scaling is equivalent for all

You just refuted your own premise. Scaling is not equivalent for all. Not even close. We see the same thing every PvE. Weak rosters flood the leaderboard, and eventually, most get scaled out. Now, with fewer passes, they probably won't get scaled out.

killerkoala

not to burst any bubbles but wouldn't the hunt be the worst pve to test the new 8hr refresh time cause if i remember right, the subs are overlapping over one another throughout the whole event?

Unknown

If there are going to be 6 stacks at 8 hours then, assuming the nodes are of nontrivial difficulty, pretty much every event will play out like Gauntlet in terms of breaking ties. That is, one can imagine there are equivalent of 6 * (number of nontrivial) nodes in a Gauntlet style in 8 hours, and whoever reach the furthest is almost certainly going to win his bracket because rubberband is weak so getting even one more node done should be enough to win (assuming a virtual tie prior to 8 hours). This would mean you'll simply try to clear as many nodes as you possibly can starting at the 8 hour mark and come back 3 hours later when your health packs regen and repeat it again until you run out. Your health packs is going to run out before the nodes run out so there's no timing game involved, unless you buy more health packs.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

SnowcaTT wrote:

all of the sudden the grinders with lesser rosters won't be able to beat out the slightly less grindy with much better rosters.

Of course this all assumes scaling is equivalent for all

You just refuted your own premise. Scaling is not equivalent for all. Not even close. We see the same thing every PvE. Weak rosters flood the leaderboard, and eventually, most get scaled out. Now, with fewer passes, they probably won't get scaled out.

They'd have to be pretty stupid to not increase the scaling factor to balance out the less clears (so roughly 3 times as much scaling based on personal scaling), though stranger things have happened.

This should be favorable for people with high scaling because that means if you clear a node 3 times in the last 8 hours that's equivalent of a day (24 hours) worth of scaling, which should hopefully keep the low scaling guys out. Of course you get hammered by scaling too, but if it's 395, it can't go higher than that.

Kolence

killerkoala wrote:

not to burst any bubbles but wouldn't the hunt be the worst pve to test the new 8hr refresh time cause if i remember right, the subs are overlapping over one another throughout the whole event?

Depends on how long the subs are. With 2 days subs, we could have 2 concurrent subs always, except at the start and the end, plus all the subs can start and end at the same o'clock.

Unknown

Tried to see if this question was asked already might have missed it. So if you hit the same node twice does it go to 16 hrs 10 hrs or stay at 8 no matter how many times you hit it (like it used to)?

SnowcaTT

simonsez wrote:

SnowcaTT wrote:

all of the sudden the grinders with lesser rosters won't be able to beat out the slightly less grindy with much better rosters.

Of course this all assumes scaling is equivalent for all

You just refuted your own premise. Scaling is not equivalent for all. Not even close. We see the same thing every PvE. Weak rosters flood the leaderboard, and eventually, most get scaled out. Now, with fewer passes, they probably won't get scaled out.

Well, that's global scaling that scales out the weaker rosters. Perhaps individual scaling should be looked at: the heavier leveled rosters shouldn't be seeing matchups that are nearly twice their level - which is already maxed.

over_clocked

Thanks for being the responsible one, Demiurge, and improving quality of life for PvE. I'm saying this as someone who won 4or and Elektra's inaugural PvEs and who can't help but grind Squirrel Girl's one.
Looking forward to this so much, naysayers are effing ridiculous, better rosters and better clear strategies are going to win out, what's not to love? I'm being optimistic but there is also almost zero reason not to be.

Adam12

simonsez wrote:

Adam12 wrote:

let those who wish to play more often be the ones to choose to play suboptimally?

Generally, when one plays a game, the goal is to win. Playing suboptimally is something you only do when you're playing against a child.

I would argue that when one plays a game, the goal is to have fun.

But for those who never play suboptimally, they should be happy for the changes. They no longer have to choose between playing suboptimally and getting to sleep through the night.

san

This is an amazing change. I look forward to it. +1 for D3.

Unknown

Sweet. Not that I really get up in the middle of the night or sneak out of work, but at least I won't be punished for it now.

Generally just a socially responsible move by D3. People won't hate themselves and the game, for making as many bad life trade-offs and preventing burnouts.

simonsez

Phantron wrote:

They'd have to be pretty stupid to not increase the scaling factor to balance out the less clears

You say that as if game changes have never been introduced with completely stupid aspects inherent.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Some more thoughts:

2. I'm also worried that an 8 hour clear time will result in issues that you've previously mentioned. If this doesn't work out, could you also test 4 hr refresh times? I think that would be a good compromise between making the PvEs too easy to hit optimally (which will probably be the result of this 8 hour test), and the 3 hour times that simply require way too much time to grind.

I think 4h refill would be perfect, you can make 3 clears and get 12h to refill max points, its enought time to sleep, work, go to school etc.

It was right move to chage it form 2,5h to 3h, but Devs why you want to jump from 3h to 8h?
I think better idea will be change it to 4h and colect data from this change same like you did with 2,5h to 3h change.
I just speak with lots of MPQ players and most of them want 4h, some of them want 6h, but no one want 8h...

All will agree that 2,5h was to short, but please dont change it for to long, and 8h is to long.

If someone could make a vote please do it, and make 3 opions, 4h, 6h, 8h... Im sure that 4h or 6h will win.

Once again Devs, I think you are going in right direction, but please dont be so radical, and change it for 4h, or max 6h

scottee

I bet they had 8 hours in mind all along when thinking about this change, but they wanted to test a slight change first before going full on. Hence the first change from 2.5 to 3.

Whether the data they got is representative of what will happen at 8 is a different story.

I_am_Zero

MonkeySlut wrote:

Tried to see if this question was asked already might have missed it. So if you hit the same node twice does it go to 16 hrs 10 hrs or stay at 8 no matter how many times you hit it (like it used to)?

It'll work like it does now, every time you clear a node more than once, it pushes the reset time up, so it'll go to 16 hours on the 2nd clear, 24 hours on the 3rd clear, etc.


I'm really glad the reset time is 8 hours. To me, not only is it about sleep, it's about the work hours. Where I work, I barely get cell service, so I see the "Check your Internet connection" error a lot. Not only does it suck for that reason, but I just can't take that much time out of my work day to play this game optimally. I don't think it's coddling, I think it's allowing more people to play PvE without sacrificing as much as we do now. I think it's also a perception thing. Imagine coming into a PvE at 950th place and seeing that the top 10 is already 10k points ahead of you. Even if you played optimally, you're never getting top 10 because, most likely, those top 10 are also playing optimally. With the 8 hour refresh, maybe you're only behind 1 refresh, which is something that can probably be overcome, with some grinding at the end of the sub/event.

Thank you, d3.

Unknown

Big thank you for the change to pve - let's see how it pans out