The Simulator - Dec 30 - Jan 7

Dragon_Nexus

Ben Grimm wrote:

I wish at this point that they'd just accept scaling in general as a failed experiment and go back to where things were: a variety of nodes that go from 10 to 395, spread out approximately evenly over each event, that people can grind to the best of their ability, but where points are such that someone hitting 7 of them consistently will beat someone hitting all of them irregularly. I remember a year ago seeing the top nodes and thinking "I'm not there yet, but I will be;" now I see them and think "don't level up my 4*s or they'll get worse."

I don't think scaling has failed, I just think it needs revising.
My highest level 4* is X-force at 115. So I'd like to hope he's not bumping my scaling up. I have six characters at level 166. The normal Simulator started at about 120 level on the hardest required node. It's doable but it's a bit of a grind. Hard mode is level 182 for the Elektra/Falcon/She Hulk node. Gorgon node's 207. Not even going to attempt it, it'll be an exercise in frustration.

Hard is one thing but a node that elicits a tired sigh from me followed by me just not doing the node isn't working.

The 2.5 hour refresh would, to my mind, suggest they want the player base to play multiple short bursts in a day. Surely those are your two models; frequent plays of 10-30 minutes or infrequent plays of an hour to two hours. The current models feels like D3 want to have their cake and eat it by encouraging frequent hour long sessions in a day. Sorry but I kinda wanna do other stuff too, guys!

I did a single run through Hard mode before work at about 3pm this afternoon and I was ranked about 3rd. Here we are 7 hours later and I'm 6th. That suggests to me no-one wants to touch that sub event.

Scaling enemies based on your roster sounds like a good idea to me on paper. But when it bumped them up so the easy nodes are rated normal something's not working properly, surely. Or if that's their idea of working properly, their ideas need revising. Being able to beat the enemy once is one thing. Being able to clear 20 nodes every 2.5 hours is another.

Unknown

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

That suggests to me no-one wants to touch that sub event.

2 things:

-In my experience no one ever really touches "hard" subevents(or at least they don't successfully complete them for points), I guess if someone else would like to speak on consistently winning/being top 5 in one of these it might be different...
-I normally just rubberband the last hour and qualify for a token, I'd assume others do the same. That or they just can't do the damn thing so its easy placement.

Mechahamster

I currently have a solid roster of mac level 2 stars, and a few mediocre 3 stars in the level 90-70 range. I currently look at the first mission of Hard, and it consists of 3 level 100s. I can defeat this node, and earn 120 points. In order to gain something tangible from this event, I need 110000 points.

I look at this and I just wonder. Why?

Unknown

_RiO_ wrote:

Phantron wrote:

JVReal wrote:

Phantron wrote:

Was I playing a different game when doing the 3 essentials in Hard was enough to easily keep pace for top 10?

The scaling on Simulator Basic has always been pretty nuts, but that also means you don't have to do as much because no one else is doing a full clear either, often because they don't have a choice. Maybe they shouldn't randomly vary the scaling so much but I think Simulator is quite good because it is precisely hard enough so that nobody can beat everything so you only have to be a bit better than everyone else instead of having to outgrind everyone else.

It works out great that way for rank, but it sucks for such a high cost progression reward. I may stay in the top 150, but I don't know if all 150 will make it to 110K to get Yellow Patch.

I got about 5000 points after one clear of everything. The last event the points model went 1/1.5/2X so let's use this model. The highest progression is 110K. If there are no rubberband whatsoever, then you'd have to clear (110K)/(5K * 1+1.5+2) = 6 cycles per sub. Now that's actually pretty hard for the average guy, but should be quite easy for the strongest players, so this means you will have rubberband (because top players can exceed this threshold). Historically the normal bracket tends to quickly double in value due to the significant rubberband compared to hard which makes them equal, so going back...

6 clears of normal + 6 clears of hard at base point = 18 clears of normal at base points.

But since normal is likely to double in points, this means you only need 9 total clears of normal or hard in one sub (60 hours). This is not a trivial amount since even normal gets pretty hard, but is certainly within range. It doesn't give you much room to slack, though.

I'm sorry? I thought we were playing a game? This sounds more like making hour estimates and scheduling work hours.

Seriously; listen to what you're suggesting. Can you honestly and with a straight face accept that this be the level of commitment necessary for the one and only decent progression reward in the set? I could live with this if we had another 3* cover further down the chain and the final Patch yellow was an extra, but as it stands for basically anyone that is not top-dog (and thus is not even capable of being in the race for Cage covers), that final cover represents the only reason to play this event to begin with.

When is 9 total clears (if you clear normal + hard, that counts as 2) in 2.5 days some kind of scheduling requirement?

I only computed the numbers for those who might wish to know if it's indeed possible or not, since this isn't a trivial amount at the difficulty they are at, but it's also nowhere near an amount that requires change of schedule.

Unknown

raisinbman wrote:

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

That suggests to me no-one wants to touch that sub event.

2 things:

-In my experience no one ever really touches "hard" subevents(or at least they don't successfully complete them for points), I guess if someone else would like to speak on consistently winning/being top 5 in one of these it might be different...
-I normally just rubberband the last hour and qualify for a token, I'd assume others do the same. That or they just can't do the damn thing so its easy placement.

Currently I'm tied at #2 with another guy in my hard sub with 1H left to go on my third cycle. I started out tie for 5th with 8 other guys or so after first cycle. I did everything once and then goon node + 3 essentiasl and it looks like it'll comfortably hold #2 at the current pace unless people decided to start hitting this bracket hardcore. I haven't used boosts though most of the fights are pretty close. I don't forsee messing with mos of the nodes in the hard bracket unless people suddenly come out of nowhere. Now of course normal is a pretty nasty grindfest but nothing's higher than about level 110 for me so that's expected.

For at least this current sub, you really should do the iso 8 jackpot on hard on every opportunity because that's as close to a freebie as you'll get in the hard bracket with 3 goons. Falcon + 2 ninjas is actually pretty easy too (basically a goon only fight in terms of damage potential except they can move the board), though I have yet to see a reason to risk even that fight so far.

Scoregasms

Question for the veterans, Hard Mode difficulty has ramped up significantly and I am only 6 hours in?!? Scaling seems to be increasing pretty quickly on it's own, is it worth to use ISO boosts in hard or will that just make the next pass even more absurd? Have not used them yet except for that damn Gorgon/Elektra/DD node (which just seems wrong with the last PVE, lol).

john1620b

Scoregasms wrote:

Question for the veterans, Hard Mode difficulty has ramped up significantly and I am only 6 hours in?!? Scaling seems to be increasing pretty quickly on it's own, is it worth to use ISO boosts in hard or will that just make the next pass even more absurd? Have not used them yet except for that damn Gorgon/Elektra/DD node (which just seems wrong with the last PVE, lol).

Most scaling these days seems to be community scaling, so using boosts is unlikely to affect your levels. In fact, most people are probably using boosts to clear them, so if you really want to be in the top 10, you'll probably need to be doing that to consistently clear the hard nodes and place well.

squirrel1120

Anyone beat hard sim 7? Have a team they liked? I keep looking at it going, nope...

Unknown

squirrel1120 wrote:

Anyone beat hard sim 7? Have a team they liked? I keep looking at it going, nope...

Keep them off red and black, and hope Elektra uses up the AP instead of Gorgon. If you have a stun, stun Gorgon when they have enough red/black/purple because it's usually way better to take Elektra's move instead. Ballet of Death can be somewhat annoying, but if you can't afford to lose 5 AP of a key color (and you usually cannot) it's still better to take the extra damage.

Unknown

Scoregasms wrote:

Question for the veterans, Hard Mode difficulty has ramped up significantly and I am only 6 hours in?!? Scaling seems to be increasing pretty quickly on it's own, is it worth to use ISO boosts in hard or will that just make the next pass even more absurd? Have not used them yet except for that damn Gorgon/Elektra/DD node (which just seems wrong with the last PVE, lol).

Simulator hard nodes tend to go up very fast so it's important to get whatever points you can get while they're still manageable.

Whether you should use boosts or not depends on what you're aiming for. Most of these nodes are borderline iso 8 boost needed but if you're not going to be able to compete for say top 10 then there's no point to move up from #17 to #12, for example.

fmftint

squirrel1120 wrote:

Anyone beat hard sim 7? Have a team they liked? I keep looking at it going, nope...

The only up side I see is they all compete for the same colors, which would lead me to believe Blade night stalker could keep them empty

Unknown

Bleh, I can't even do Hard Essentials(at least not without healed up chars and health packs at the ready), can usually manage those. Guess I should just be glad there's a triple goon in hard....

Scoregasms

Phantron wrote:

Scoregasms wrote:

Question for the veterans, Hard Mode difficulty has ramped up significantly and I am only 6 hours in?!? Scaling seems to be increasing pretty quickly on it's own, is it worth to use ISO boosts in hard or will that just make the next pass even more absurd? Have not used them yet except for that damn Gorgon/Elektra/DD node (which just seems wrong with the last PVE, lol).

Simulator hard nodes tend to go up very fast so it's important to get whatever points you can get while they're still manageable.

Whether you should use boosts or not depends on what you're aiming for. Most of these nodes are borderline iso 8 boost needed but if you're not going to be able to compete for say top 10 then there's no point to move up from #17 to #12, for example.

Thanks Phantron/john1620b!

I am going for top 10 only (not 1st or 2nd). I'm relatively new, so this is my first run of this Simulator PVE. I did snag 1st in my Bracket in both recent PVEs (Prodigal Sun and Enemy of the State), so I'm willing to put in the work, but this just seems bat **** crazy. The first 12-24 hours in the other PVE's were more intense as everyone was able to hit the refreshes, but this one feels different for sure. I'm currently in 1st with 10th having 8K below my score (basically half). The disparity at this point just seems magnified? Just trying to get a better understanding of how this PVE works and if folks really are only doing specific nodes only and skipping the rest.

More importantly, trying to figure out what my effort should be to finish in the top 10 at the end of this marathon event. If folks are already tapping out now, this event only gets more difficult right? lol...

Unknown

Scoregasms wrote:

Phantron wrote:

Scoregasms wrote:

Question for the veterans, Hard Mode difficulty has ramped up significantly and I am only 6 hours in?!? Scaling seems to be increasing pretty quickly on it's own, is it worth to use ISO boosts in hard or will that just make the next pass even more absurd? Have not used them yet except for that damn Gorgon/Elektra/DD node (which just seems wrong with the last PVE, lol).

Simulator hard nodes tend to go up very fast so it's important to get whatever points you can get while they're still manageable.

Whether you should use boosts or not depends on what you're aiming for. Most of these nodes are borderline iso 8 boost needed but if you're not going to be able to compete for say top 10 then there's no point to move up from #17 to #12, for example.

Thanks Phantron/john1620b!

I am going for top 10 only (not 1st or 2nd). I'm relatively new, so this is my first run of this Simulator PVE. I did snag 1st in my Bracket in both recent PVEs (Prodigal Sun and Enemy of the State), so I'm willing to put in the work, but this just seems bat tinykitty crazy. The first 12-24 hours in the other PVE's were more intense as everyone was able to hit the refreshes, but this one feels different for sure. I'm currently in 1st with 10th having 8K below my score (basically half). The disparity at this point just seems magnified? Just trying to get a better understanding of how this PVE works and if folks really are only doing specific nodes only and skipping the rest.

More importantly, trying to figure out what my effort should be to finish in the top 10 at the end of this marathon event. If folks are already tapping out now, this event only gets more difficult right? lol...

If you have a significant lead sometimes it's a good idea to go for the kill by getting a huge lead so that no one will even think about trying to sneak in some extra clears at the end. While all else being equal you should be able to hold your lead unless someone behind you is just way stronger and can grind like crazy toward the end when the node hits the 300+ range, usually someone who could do that have no reason to purposely put themselves in a disadvantageous position even with their roster. In the last Enemy of the State both I and the #1 had a 40K lead so the #3 guy never made a move in the final cycle. Now that's obviously way overkill but had that lead been say, 5K, you'd definitely expect the #3 player to make a move when some of the nodes are worth close to 4K, and although I'm pretty sure I can fend off any late charges, it's still best if your opponent don't make the late charge at all.

Scoregasms

Phantron wrote:

If you have a significant lead sometimes it's a good idea to go for the kill by getting a huge lead so that no one will even think about trying to sneak in some extra clears at the end. While all else being equal you should be able to hold your lead unless someone behind you is just way stronger and can grind like crazy toward the end when the node hits the 300+ range, usually someone who could do that have no reason to purposely put themselves in a disadvantageous position even with their roster. In the last Enemy of the State both I and the #1 had a 40K lead so the #3 guy never made a move in the final cycle. Now that's obviously way overkill but had that lead been say, 5K, you'd definitely expect the #3 player to make a move when some of the nodes are worth close to 4K, and although I'm pretty sure I can fend off any late charges, it's still best if your opponent don't make the late charge at all.

That was pretty much what I did in the last 2 events, though I watched 2nd place get overtaken in the last hour in Enemy of the State. Honestly, I'd prefer to have someone else get Lady Thor Blue since I don't need it and I'm pretty sure other folks would benefit more from it. Just thought there'd be more effort, which makes me want to dial it down a bit and just do enough to stay in the Top 10. Perhaps I'll just go strong the first 2 Subs and then not even look at Sub 3 unless I see myself drop past 3 and then only play enough to stay within the Top 10?

GrumpySmurf1002

FWIW, IMO this simulator doesn't feel much different than previous iterations. Maybe a touch harder on the scaling, as it's odd for the scaling to be this rough this quick into the hard sub. I question whether we're getting community scaling from all slices and the people who joined slice 1 drove it up before 2-5 could get going.

Overall, same basic strategy for me. Optimally hit the hard sub as much as possible early, then gear down to the hard essentials and grind the easy sub optimally. Phantron's right about the goon nodes, that's a gift, as usually that's a high value node that's impossible to do, but goons are simple to beat for a lot of team combinations.

Still my favorite event other than Gauntlet. The scaling pricing people out limits the grind and makes the strategy of team composition and node management important.

Pylgrim

Welp, just joined a bracket, 7 hours after it started, and had the bad fortune of being the 998th player in it. Then, my hard sub nodes /start/ at level 150 (and go all the way to 230) in the first run! Using all my health packs I managed to clear the whole sub, only to find that wasn't even enough to place me within the top 50.

Summary:

- Diabolical nodes that start at 150 level and are only going to get harder.
- Node refresh of 2.5 hours.
- 60 hour subs
- 7 day event
- No hope of even placing top 50 from day 1 unless I manage to outgrind the people above me.

Not even a 4*THor reward at top 50 would motivate me to do this. This is the stupidest PVE in which I have participated.

squirrel1120

Sim 7 in the hard track ended up not being all that scary. I was most familiar fighting him with lcap/im40/falcon, so I went at it with thst, and amazingly they don't do crazy things without bring fed massive amounts of their colors.

Hood/ares node is the only one that's wiped me tonight.

Unknown

Am I the only one trying to do Berserker Rage with 8 green AP and wonder why it's not working?

Elektra is the MVP for the Gorgon node. Thank you for wasting AP on Ballet of Death instead of Debiliating Slash or Ambush, Shadow Step instead of Awaken the Hand, and Double Double Cross instead of Gorgon's Gaze. Although I beat those nodes pretty comfortably, any of Gorgon's move resolving would've turn an easy victory into something very ugly, and I have Elektra to thank for it. I can see the fight go like this:

Scenario red:
Gorgon: Okay, red AP, we got this.
Daredevil: How about some of my traps? They can pretty much blow anyone up in one hit.
Gorgon: Won't you just match away your own traps for next to no damage?
Daredevil: I've trained harder and now my traps do 6000 damage even when matched by myself.
Gorgon: That sounds pretty good, but I think my Debiliating Slash doing 6000 damage + AP drain is more reliable than hoping someone trip over a trap.
Elektra: Hey guys, I just placed a trap and immediately matched it away for no damage!

Scenario black:
Gorgon: Okay, I got some black AP. Time to summon some ninjas to totally beat up the other team.
Elektra: I think we need to work on defense first.
Gorgon: But I have 19K HP and shrug off Surgical Strike like it's a flea?
Elektra: I mean we need to work on MY defense.
Gorgon: Errr
Elektra: Got 4 traps up now. Nobody's going to be able to harm me now!
Gorgon: But nobody attacks you first anyway...

Scenario purple:
Gorgon: Okay, purple isn't one of my greatest powers and I need 3 turns to take off my sunglasses, but it can still be pretty useful.
Elektra: I got a better idea, how about I give them 3 strike tiles instead? And then when we get purple AP again, Daredevil and convert them back for 1100 damage each, if any are still around!

dkffiv

Not sure about the complaints on the Gorgon node, the previous 2 (Ares Hood and Mags) are way more dangerous. The Groot Daken node on normal is a little dangerous too.