reckless442 wrote: Jameson2014 wrote: Another thing to think about... This isn't going to stop outside of game communication. It will simply increase. I have an idea that I'm mapping out to continue shield hopping, but will take pretty much most of the top alliances to communicate, and hops to be on large scale. This is totally possible, and, in my opinion, a nice way to say "nu Uh" to the devs trying to be our parents. Lol. Why on earth is one of the justifications "outside game communication" as if that's a bad thing. So, like oph, but bigger, and more permanent. Related to that, outside communication will probably place more emphasis on sniping competitors. I've noticed with time-sharding in shards with fewer points that players have specifically requested help knocking down someone competing with them for placement rewards. In the past, players would mostly try to push to increase their own score because points were available. But with points at a premium, especially in the higher scoring range, the people at the top are targeted more by the entire pool so they can't hop as much and must instead try to knock down the guy fighting for that reward. I only see that increasing if this shield-nerf goes through because points will be even harder to come by.
Jameson2014 wrote: Another thing to think about... This isn't going to stop outside of game communication. It will simply increase. I have an idea that I'm mapping out to continue shield hopping, but will take pretty much most of the top alliances to communicate, and hops to be on large scale. This is totally possible, and, in my opinion, a nice way to say "nu Uh" to the devs trying to be our parents. Lol. Why on earth is one of the justifications "outside game communication" as if that's a bad thing. So, like oph, but bigger, and more permanent.
wymtime wrote: locked wrote: Whew, finally read the thread. Sorry if my suggestion is dumb for some very basic reasons. Here it is. Shields are very convenient to protect one's score and to allow for some life. That was their intended purpose after all. How about we don't nerf shields but the hopping instead? If one breaks shield in anything but the last 10 minutes of it, they are subject to a point decrease multiplier a la point refresh stacks in PvE. Moreover, the decrease periods should stack leading to less and less effective point gains. This way players can still use as many shields as they wish and break whenever they wish but they would just penalize themselves for attempting to get ahead through tons of shieldhops and people that more or less play normally (only shield when they have to go, run out of healthpacks, etc.) will be ahead instead since they will be getting normal point gains instead of +5 or +7 per hop. Of course having more versatile shields would help as well. Maybe change the 3 hr to 3-4, add a 5-6 hr shield, change the 8 hr to 8-10, add a 12-15 hr shield. Definitely needs more variety and will encourage better planning and not obsessing over scores (I would hope). Thoughts? Flames? Post-disclaimer: I do shieldhops but only out of necessity and not enjoyment. I hope there are other ways introduced to compete besides ranks and scores, new exciting modes, since excellent competitive players like reckless, Daveomite and many others I have come to know through the forums deserve to have a fun outlet for their desire to prove themselves in their favourite game and to knock themselves out if they wish so. So I will look at this idea from the point of view that we want to stop extreme shield hopping and have scores be closer to the progression totals. If we penalize someone for breaking a shield early, let's say 15 points per match hoppers instead of generating 50 points per match per hop will get 35 unless they wait till their shield is about to expire, or fully expires. If people are only making 2 matches per hop you will bring scores down, but will not stop people from hopping and have people being PTW by just hopping more and out spending other players. Your idea will lower scores but will not really address the issue of PTW. I still think the best 2 options are set the number of shields a player can use in one PVP. It might be 3 it might be 5. This way players can only spend so much on shields to win. Number 2 option is to just put a short CD between shields. Once you break shield you cannot shield again for 15-20 min. No flipping between 8 he shield and 3 hr shield it is just you break shield and you cannot shield again for 15-20 min. Ideally this should be time you are playing. The issue with this option is at high scores if you are exposed for 10 min your team will get hit for more points than you win. This is where the Devs would have to put something in place to allow people to climb but not lose a mass of points at the same time. I will say I do shield hop as well, I might not hop to 1300 very often but I have. This is a tough issue to tackle for D3. It needs to be addressed but it seems that every idea is still wrong.
locked wrote: Whew, finally read the thread. Sorry if my suggestion is dumb for some very basic reasons. Here it is. Shields are very convenient to protect one's score and to allow for some life. That was their intended purpose after all. How about we don't nerf shields but the hopping instead? If one breaks shield in anything but the last 10 minutes of it, they are subject to a point decrease multiplier a la point refresh stacks in PvE. Moreover, the decrease periods should stack leading to less and less effective point gains. This way players can still use as many shields as they wish and break whenever they wish but they would just penalize themselves for attempting to get ahead through tons of shieldhops and people that more or less play normally (only shield when they have to go, run out of healthpacks, etc.) will be ahead instead since they will be getting normal point gains instead of +5 or +7 per hop. Of course having more versatile shields would help as well. Maybe change the 3 hr to 3-4, add a 5-6 hr shield, change the 8 hr to 8-10, add a 12-15 hr shield. Definitely needs more variety and will encourage better planning and not obsessing over scores (I would hope). Thoughts? Flames? Post-disclaimer: I do shieldhops but only out of necessity and not enjoyment. I hope there are other ways introduced to compete besides ranks and scores, new exciting modes, since excellent competitive players like reckless, Daveomite and many others I have come to know through the forums deserve to have a fun outlet for their desire to prove themselves in their favourite game and to knock themselves out if they wish so.
ShanePHallam wrote: As a transitioning player, I def. welcome a change like this. I don't have the cash to consistently shield hop nor to experiment and do it. It'd be nice to have a crack at lowering some high point guys and stay competitive without it.
Jameson2014 wrote: ShanePHallam wrote: As a transitioning player, I def. welcome a change like this. I don't have the cash to consistently shield hop nor to experiment and do it. It'd be nice to have a crack at lowering some high point guys and stay competitive without it. That will not make anyone who isn't competitive now any more competitive. Let's say top guys stay around 600-1000 points. Every time your score hits the 600 mark, you'll be beaten back to 300 in minutes. The high point guys don't hit you often from 1300+, because you're only worth 1 point to them. You're actually going to be getting less progression rewards. Everyone will.
ShanePHallam wrote: Jameson2014 wrote: ShanePHallam wrote: As a transitioning player, I def. welcome a change like this. I don't have the cash to consistently shield hop nor to experiment and do it. It'd be nice to have a crack at lowering some high point guys and stay competitive without it. That will not make anyone who isn't competitive now any more competitive. Let's say top guys stay around 600-1000 points. Every time your score hits the 600 mark, you'll be beaten back to 300 in minutes. The high point guys don't hit you often from 1300+, because you're only worth 1 point to them. You're actually going to be getting less progression rewards. Everyone will. They've mentioned potentially changing progression rewards. How does changing shields change how I'm beaten back down? Is everyone going to be sitting on the game for 8 hours during their cool down period? I doubt it. MMR needs some changing/updating to coincide with this, but it is a start to level the playing field a little. And if people want to shield hop/spend to do it, they can, just costs some more.
rbdragon wrote: It was mentioned in this (or a different) thread that shields were made to allow the user to step away from the game without being hit. If this is true, then there's an easy solution to remove shield-hopping: make shields free. Okay, before you down-vote this (and at risk of making my previous post sound bad since perhaps it came from someone clearly out of his mind), here me out a bit...IF shields were created strictly to give users a break, then once you click a shield (no timer necessary), it should take you immediately out of the tournament screen. Once you click the tournament to go back in and play again, a prompt would remind you that your shield will be broken if you enter, where you click enter or cancel.But won't this just make shield-hopping easier and cheaper? Well no, because you can't shield and then set up your queues for when you're ready to unshield since you are removed from the screen.But can't we just set up our queues before we play our last match and then shield - this way we have two set up still after we play the 3rd node? Hmmm...good point - guess we'll have to clear the queue when you shield as well, thus ensuring you a fresh queue when you re-enter.But that sucks! What if you're queue is filled with all low-point players, since matchmaking is based on MMR? Another good point Devil's Advocate Me...guess our queue needs to go by points as well as MMR - something like you cannot see players with less than x points below you, or y points above you....with the least a match is worth being 15, and the most being 50 (once y = 50 pt match, you don't see players above that, which keeps new entries from seeing 1500 pt players).But shields make D3 a lot of coin... Not my problem...if they value fairness, this could be an option maybe....besides, they can get much MUCH more cash from us if they would introduce skins or some other fun aspect of the game that is missing... I don't know if this is a good idea or a horrible idea - just a different one.....at least I think it's different...if someone else suggested it, my bad...
Spoit wrote: I understand that people are upset, I am too, but taking it out on HiFi is the wrong approach. He's just the messenger, and he works for the publisher, not the devs who made this decision
Jameson2014 wrote: I have an idea that I'm mapping out to continue shield hopping, but will take pretty much most of the top alliances to communicate, and hops to be on large scale. This is totally possible
Sontar wrote: Just one addition to the rbdragon's suggested solution: Even though you are shielded you must appear in other players' queues
simonsez wrote: That would be fantastic. You could have guys climb to 1500, shield with a tank team up, and give everyone free 49 points all day long.
Sontar wrote: And the problem is what exactly?