*** Wolverine (Patch) ***

Quebbster

Trisul wrote:

ark123 wrote:

I don't understand why people are so in love with the patch doom concept. The best thing about zerker rage is that it comes out after 3 green matches. You're really going to wait the x turns (where x is the number of purples on the board, plus as many as fall in from the match) before you fire off a 9 ap ability?

People really, REALLY hate those black purple strike tiles.

I think the principle is that it doesn't have to cover every tile. Even if, say, 3 are open, you can feel pretty good about 6 strike tiles for 3 of theirs.

It also helps narrowing down where the strike tiles will appear. If I can be reasonably sure I can match away 2-3 of the enemy strike tiles with my next move, it's time to Rage!

hurcules

NorthernPolarity wrote:

I tried out Patch Doom a little bit in PvE, and I don't see it: it takes forever to saturate the entire board with trap tiles.

Try this:

- Prioritise blue matches to get Technopathic strike (3 turns)
- Now prioritise green matches for BR(3 turns)
- If the board does not have enough blue and black, match a few black or purple.
- When you see there are at least 2 potential cascade matches as a result of Technopathic Strike, hit BR followed by TS on enemy. Ususally by this time quite a few traps would have clogged up purple tiles
- Unleash Demons with the new black if you have enough.

Unknown

hurcules wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

I tried out Patch Doom a little bit in PvE, and I don't see it: it takes forever to saturate the entire board with trap tiles.

Try this:

- Prioritise blue matches to get Technopathic strike (3 turns)
- Now prioritise green matches for BR(3 turns)
- If the board does not have enough blue and black, match a few black or purple.
- When you see there are at least 2 potential cascade matches as a result of Technopathic Strike, hit BR followed by TS on enemy. Ususally by this time quite a few traps would have clogged up purple tiles
- Unleash Demons with the new black if you have enough.

Just to add to hurcules' post:
- Check that you have 6 available basic green tiles that hopefully won't get matched away
- If your 3rd has any cheap damaging moves, save that ap for post BR

Seriously Berserker-Techno-Demons is a pretty effective combo and the cascades can often collect enough purple for a Diabolical finisher.

Trisul

Red Panda wrote:

Diabolical finisher.

I like this.

FaustianDeal

Ever since Patch came back from his sabbatical in the Disney Vault the downside of Berserker Rage keeps getting mitigated.

* Daredevil came out of the vault with a Purple power that will rip up a few of the those tiles and hit the enemy team.
* Loki came back out of the vault with a retooled Black. (listed for completeness - this isn't an improvement)
* Doom comes out of the vault with a power that ties up purples to mitigate the risk
* Now we get Squirrel Girl.

Fully leveled Squrrel girl will do 6,728 damage firing purple. That assumes 8 enemy tiles, if you scale it back to the 6 they are going to get from you popping Berserker Rage you are still looking at 5,650 damage before you add your strike tile damage to the equation. They get to keep the tiles; but the "they" in that sentence probably refers to a line of downed enemies. That's a rough 1-2.

Quebbster

I quite enjoyed playing Patch against the new Dr Doom. One Berserker rage disarms a lot of traps...

Unknown

FaustianDeal wrote:

Ever since Patch came back from his sabbatical in the Disney Vault the downside of Berserker Rage keeps getting mitigated.

* Daredevil came out of the vault with a Purple power that will rip up a few of the those tiles and hit the enemy team.
* Loki came back out of the vault with a retooled Black. (listed for completeness - this isn't an improvement)
* Doom comes out of the vault with a power that ties up purples to mitigate the risk
* Now we get Squirrel Girl.

Fully leveled Squrrel girl will do 6,728 damage firing purple. That assumes 8 enemy tiles, if you scale it back to the 6 they are going to get from you popping Berserker Rage you are still looking at 5,650 damage before you add your strike tile damage to the equation. They get to keep the tiles; but the "they" in that sentence probably refers to a line of downed enemies. That's a rough 1-2.

You forgot grocket, who can tank a bunch of zerker tile damage and heal right back up, giving you a boosted cascade

Unknown

I find that there is great synergy with **Wolvie, Blade and classic Spider-Man. Their passives overlap perfectly! Maybe this is old news but I've only been playing for 60 days and the team seems solid as an attack or defense team. If I could get a damn yellow cover for Patch I would quickly switch him in! Is there already a consensus on this team?

Unknown

BBTBob wrote:

I find that there is great synergy with **Wolvie, Blade and classic Spider-Man. Their passives overlap perfectly! Maybe this is old news but I've only been playing for 60 days and the team seems solid as an attack or defense team. If I could get a damn yellow cover for Patch I would quickly switch him in! Is there already a consensus on this team?

I'm pretty sure that was the loaner team in the pve that introduced Blade. Falcon is much better in place of 2* wolvie though - it's the team I use in every survival node.

llamamancer

I was facing Patch and Hulk(and cyclops) in Eye for an Eye, Hulk had a higher red and green stat than Patch. Patch used "Best there is" when there were 7 yellow tiles on the board, 0 strike/protect tiles, so I should have taken 7*71=497 damage, but I took over 2000. It appears that it used the red and green tiles also in the calculation. That isn't supposed to work that way, right? Thanks.

Unknown

There are six colors in the game and you're only looking at three. So Hulk tanks red and green, patch tanks yellow, cyclops tanks black but who tanks purple and blue?

It's a little hard to figure out without the exact levels of the characters as well as order but by looking at my 166 hulk and 166 patch, Patch would take Purple (12 while hulk has 11) and blue tanking would depend on position(Hulk and patch both have 13).

Did you take any of that into account?

MojoWild

What Kaigen said. The damage value is based on the number of tiles with Patch's icon, not just red and green.

Unknown

Could someone explain to me why 5/3/5 is the ideal build and not 4/4/5?

I've been using patch/loki and find 4 red to be invaluable in downing big targets. Match dmg and fire green to eliminate the support, then red and matches to finish off the beefy dps. Also great to have the option not to expose loki, unless I have to.
Ideally, I match 9 greens and 11 blacks for zerker's and trickery. But at least half the time, when I'm fighting unboosted, the board is not ideal and I have to fire zerker's without trickery, then at least I can TBTI to shorten the battle significantly or collect red so at least I can tank with patch to blunt the strike tiled enemy matches.

Let's say I use 35 patch tiles as an example, I'm doing 3500 with 3 red and 4900 with 4 red, about 40% difference.
1400 in immediate damage, with no potential downside keeps the battle at the status quo, in your control. Where 2 extra strike tiles for each team, which can backfire and spin the board out of your control.

As for the patch/hulk combo, I think someone said that 4green can trigger hulk's anger. Wouldn't having two colors, leading to usable skills, make patch more usable outside of the combo? Or does it take 5 green patch/hulk to end battles quick enough for shield hops?

Kolence

Kriegerbot wrote:

Could someone explain to me why 5/3/5 is the ideal build and not 4/4/5?

I wouldn't say it's ideal. I have him 5/3/5 ( and played at first with 4/4/5 ) and prefer to have someone else use red after BR is started. But 5/3/5 can definitely save you when you are about to lose horribly so you gamble and manage to win with a little luck. Of course the reverse is also true sometimes...

As for the patch/hulk combo, I think someone said that 4green can trigger hulk's anger. Wouldn't having two colors, leading to usable skills, make patch more usable outside of the combo? Or does it take 5 green patch/hulk to end battles quick enough for shield hops?

It can trigger with 4 green, yes. But you answered it yourself about the shield hopping. Those extra tiles make a big difference overall in speed. Not to mention that, when hopping, one of the worst things that can happen is the purple tiles are matched away and Hulk stops being angry. This is less likely to occur the more tiles are placed. And if/when Hulk finally bites it, with the remaining strike tiles and all the colors Patch takes over, 3 red is enough to KO pretty much anyone. Almost always.

Unknown

Kriegerbot wrote:

Could someone explain to me why 5/3/5 is the ideal build and not 4/4/5?

I've been using patch/loki and find 4 red to be invaluable in downing big targets. Match dmg and fire green to eliminate the support, then red and matches to finish off the beefy dps. Also great to have the option not to expose loki, unless I have to.
Ideally, I match 9 greens and 11 blacks for zerker's and trickery. But at least half the time, when I'm fighting unboosted, the board is not ideal and I have to fire zerker's without trickery, then at least I can TBTI to shorten the battle significantly or collect red so at least I can tank with patch to blunt the strike tiled enemy matches.

Let's say I use 35 patch tiles as an example, I'm doing 3500 with 3 red and 4900 with 4 red, about 40% difference.
1400 in immediate damage, with no potential downside keeps the battle at the status quo, in your control. Where 2 extra strike tiles for each team, which can backfire and spin the board out of your control.

As for the patch/hulk combo, I think someone said that 4green can trigger hulk's anger. Wouldn't having two colors, leading to usable skills, make patch more usable outside of the combo? Or does it take 5 green patch/hulk to end battles quick enough for shield hops?

14 red for 5k damage is not very good, and red needs you to tailor your team for Patch to tank. 9 Green for 2k damage and 900 worth of strike tiles is very good, and if you can turn the purple tiles into 900 worth of protect tiles, it's even better. If you can't, but can deal AoE, you just turned that 900 into 2700 damage.

So basically if you're using Patch at all, you're doing so for green. If you're using it for red, you're better off with a bunch of other characters.

Unknown

Kriegerbot wrote:

Could someone explain to me why 5/3/5 is the ideal build and not 4/4/5?

I look at it in terms of consistency. Many characters have skills that would be REALLY STRONG in a very specific situation. Loki's black will turn the tide if you're facing enemy strikes or protect tiles that threaten to crush you. The same goes for Daredevil's purple...Elektra's...Squirrel Girl's...probably other, non-purple skills. Doctor Octopus. But when you're not against a character that uses special tiles, these skills aren't much of anything.

The situation with Patch's red and Gamora's black is that you either have to stack your colours a certain way or wait until two of your characters are dead for them to really shine. And in the latter instance, they do just fine with three covers. I only use Patch's red as a desperation move because I typically use him with characters that have cheaper red skills.

That's why I need five green. If you use Patch with Daken and Psylocke, you have your endgame laid out: get 9 green, 12 black, 10 blue and 10 red. By this point, Daken will have three strikes on the board, so Psylocke's red will cost five. Use Berzerker Rage on the enemy with the highest health, then Psi-Katana the next guy down, and so on: BR, Katana, Katana, Knife, Knife, CR, CR, match-3, attack tile, win. If you haven't ended the game by then, you might lose quickly.

You can also use Punisher and Doom in a similar way.

In this case, Patch's red is a backup skill.

Unknown

I ran a 4/4/5 Patch for a long long time waiting for that 5th green cover, and he's not bad. Very balanced play. Can put up a 6k hit if you need it on red, or can put up 4 strikes on green for hulk bombing and you can even destroy one randomly and still be good. I do agree that 5/3/5 is better but 4/4/5 is workable if that's what you have.

14 red for 5k might not be very good but 14 red for 10k is excellent, and not to hard to pull off. 14 red being fed by IM40 who then stuns himself and gives patch 5/7th of the board is REALLY good.

dkffiv

Kriegerbot wrote:

Could someone explain to me why 5/3/5 is the ideal build and not 4/4/5?

I've been using patch/loki and find 4 red to be invaluable in downing big targets. Match dmg and fire green to eliminate the support, then red and matches to finish off the beefy dps. Also great to have the option not to expose loki, unless I have to.
Ideally, I match 9 greens and 11 blacks for zerker's and trickery. But at least half the time, when I'm fighting unboosted, the board is not ideal and I have to fire zerker's without trickery, then at least I can TBTI to shorten the battle significantly or collect red so at least I can tank with patch to blunt the strike tiled enemy matches.

Let's say I use 35 patch tiles as an example, I'm doing 3500 with 3 red and 4900 with 4 red, about 40% difference.
1400 in immediate damage, with no potential downside keeps the battle at the status quo, in your control. Where 2 extra strike tiles for each team, which can backfire and spin the board out of your control.

As for the patch/hulk combo, I think someone said that 4green can trigger hulk's anger. Wouldn't having two colors, leading to usable skills, make patch more usable outside of the combo? Or does it take 5 green patch/hulk to end battles quick enough for shield hops?

For a long time I ran 4/4/5 Patch Daken BP (*BP was 117 so he didn't tank anything). 4 in green is ideal not because of the red covers but because the enemy strike tiles are manageable. If you have a purple match lined up (which luckily Daken tanks for you) you can usually eliminate 2-3 of the enemy's 4 tiles. Leaving 4+ enemy tiles up and a cascade can kill off your Patch/Daken faster than they can regenerate. 5 green covers is better on D because if Patch gets it off, its RNG who gets the bigger cascade first.

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

I ran a 4/4/5 Patch for a long long time waiting for that 5th green cover, and he's not bad. Very balanced play. Can put up a 6k hit if you need it on red, or can put up 4 strikes on green for hulk bombing and you can even destroy one randomly and still be good. I do agree that 5/3/5 is better but 4/4/5 is workable if that's what you have.

14 red for 5k might not be very good but 14 red for 10k is excellent, and not to hard to pull off. 14 red being fed by IM40 who then stuns himself and gives patch 5/7th of the board is REALLY good.

10k is 5 red covers and 40 tiles with patch's symbol, right? Am I doing the math right? 40 of the 64 tiles total?

That sounds pretty impossible to do with 4 covers unless Patch is tanking like 4 colors. And you somehow cleared all the TU tiles. I also fail to see how you would do this with any kind of regularity and get a 14ap skill off consistently enough that it would be worth it.

Unknown

Thanks for all the input guys. I've been mostly using patch/loki as a pvp climbing team, since thor/hood seems to be a better deterrent 550+.
4/4/5 probably seemed better to me, since it's less risky and I spend less health packs. But I would need patch at 5/3/5 to hulkbomb well.

I can take my time with the climb and find replacement teams. But no other combo will fill the niche, at high end of pvp, that 5/3/5 patch and hulk will.
Thanks for sharing all your wisdoms