*** Gamora (Guardians of the Galaxy) ***

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Comments

  • gobstopper wrote:
    raisinbman wrote:
    I think Gamora is really lazy character design. there is already Punisher, HT, or even Psylocke with a better color combo that fill this low cost damage slot. Even worse, for her black to be any good, you need to have her tanking multiple colors, which is completely counter intuitive. Gamora is going into the never played basket with Beast for me.

    Dev 1 "oh no we made another HT, Punisher"
    Dev 2" Give her 8K health"
    Dev1 "genius"

    I can't help thinking where is all the money going because these unbalanced no reason characters must be pretty easy to bang out and just seems like a smoke screen to cover up the lack of any actual PVE or PVP content, that doesn't consist of a new skin for an event. Honestly same events different rewards and occasionally different characters, but all in all this is the same game I played 6 months ago, verbatim.

    I am starting to believe the theory that D3 don't even know why this game is good they just got lucky and are riding the success wave as long as they can without making the game progress that is needed to sustain a community.

    She's a "middle" character. Not great, but not bad. I think her red is the most exciting/has the most potential thing they've provided, and who knows, we may get the tools to properly use her later on.

    These type of characters are introduced(typically, can't speak for this case) to be an option, not the best option, but an option nonetheless.

    And as for her "use" in the big picture, its as another body/powered up/essential character. As has been discussed to death, the tier list isn't really effected by her introduction.

    On a personal note, I'm glad she isn't ridiculously powerful so the whales/166 brigade won't absolutely thrash me in trying to get her. I'm just glad she's not a beast/doc ock.

    Could she use a buff? Sure. But she'd have to get in a long, long line.
    The whales/166 brigade will thrash you in trying to get every new character, even if it's 3* Bag-Man

    A) She's not 'new' anymore, anyone who's going all out to build her, as discussed in this thread is either stupid or a big fan. They'd be better spending their resources elsewhere.
    B) Not really. Devil Dino/4*Thor/Deadpool/CMarv/etc are wayyyyyy worse competition
  • Yay! Got her to 5 red!!!! At max level she'll only need to activate it 10 times to take down 4Thor!!!!

    Erm... hold on... 10 times?

    *Goes off to save more ISO for 4Thor*
  • kensterrkensterr Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,277 Chairperson of the Boards
    Gamora's Red is so OP!...
    Against level 20 goons. WOW!
  • I don't understand why the Black isn't passive? Isn't 'reputation' something that should be always 'on'? How does she activate it? 'Hey guys, look at me, I'm a badass!'. Whew, that was exhausting, well worth that 12 black...

    Bad Reputation - Black (passive)
    Gamora's reputation as the "Most Dangerous Woman in the Galaxy" precedes her. As long as there is no friendly strike tile, she converts a basic yellowtile.png into a strength 18 Strike tile.
    Level 2: Gamora makes strength 22 Strike tile.
    Level 3: Gamora makes strength 26 Strike tile.
    Level 4: Gamora makes strength 33 Strike tile.
    Level 5: Gamora creates tiles as long as there are less than two friendly strike tiles present.
    Max Level: Strength 100 Strike tiles

    Now pair it with Falcon and bam, full rainbow and synergy. To need 12 blacktile.png to even start dishing any damage is... ugh.
  • Nivrax wrote:
    100% agree. You'll never use her greenflag.png if you have other user of that color, why won't you even consider her 12 blacktile.png (which limits yout team composition) if you can just kill enemies by RotP (BP) or if you need strike tiles simply bring Daken...
    redflag.png - no comment here icon_evil.gif
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Not sure why all the hate on her. She has one of the top 5 Green's in the game, possible you could argue #3.

    Obvious 1. is X-Force, followed by 2. Call of the Storm.

    3. Could be many

    Sniper Rifle
    Skull Cracker
    Blammo!
    Beserker Rage
    Lightning Strike

    I would argue that while Sniper Rifle is the best green skill overall due to sheer power, you don't use it very often, in terms of useable skills I would put Skull, Blammo and Lightning all at the #3 spot, the only reason I say no to Beserker Rage is that it can backfire. We compare everything to X-Force which is not fair, if X-Force was still X-Farce, I think people would be saying that Gamora is a top tier chracter. I think people understimate the 2 turn stun I mean that's up to 6 free AP

    As for her Black, I'm still undecided, the problem is I don't have her leveled up enough to see the benefit from this, much like TBTI, if she's all that's left on the board this skill is lethal however you aren't going to ever really get more than 9 strike tiles on average, even if she's all that's left, because they only go to yellow tiles. I just realized this, which is why I'm starting to lean towards 5/5/3 as the better build, even if X-Force never existed. Even if she tanks 3 colors you are looking at an average of 7 tiles, and if she tanks only 2 in a balanced team, she's only going to be making 4. I think you would be better served by stunning 2 characters for 2 turns over some strike tiles that Black Panther could kick out that are better and cheaper. To me even if there was no X-Force Black Panther would be more useful than her black.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    The whole point of Gamora's red is that its cheap and you use it with strike tiles out. All of these comments saying it is weak is like saying Smite is weak because they didn't use power surge before it.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2014
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    Not sure why all the hate on her. She has one of the top 5 Green's in the game, possible you could argue #3.

    Obvious 1. is X-Force, followed by 2. Call of the Storm.

    3. Could be many

    Sniper Rifle
    Skull Cracker
    Blammo!
    Beserker Rage
    Lightning Strike

    I would argue that while Sniper Rifle is the best green skill overall due to sheer power, you don't use it very often, in terms of useable skills I would put Skull, Blammo and Lightning all at the #3 spot, the only reason I say no to Beserker Rage is that it can backfire. We compare everything to X-Force which is not fair, if X-Force was still X-Farce, I think people would be saying that Gamora is a top tier chracter. I think people understimate the 2 turn stun I mean that's up to 6 free AP

    As for her Black, I'm still undecided, the problem is I don't have her leveled up enough to see the benefit from this, much like TBTI, if she's all that's left on the board this skill is lethal however you aren't going to ever really get more than 9 strike tiles on average, even if she's all that's left, because they only go to yellow tiles. I just realized this, which is why I'm starting to lean towards 5/5/3 as the better build, even if X-Force never existed. Even if she tanks 3 colors you are looking at an average of 7 tiles, and if she tanks only 2 in a balanced team, she's only going to be making 4. I think you would be better served by stunning 2 characters for 2 turns over some strike tiles that Black Panther could kick out that are better and cheaper. To me even if there was no X-Force Black Panther would be more useful than her black.

    Her black gives you 1k worth of strike tiles for 12ap, BP gives 525 for 9AP, so it's not exactly strictly better. Might be underrating the green though, so we'll have to see. I think that all the other skills you listed are better than cracker: not sure how much of a difference the stunning 2 people makes, since by your logic doc ock's green would be a good skill since it does the same thing except only stun 1 person.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    The whole point of Gamora's red is that its cheap and you use it with strike tiles out. All of these comments saying it is weak is like saying Smite is weak because they didn't use power surge before it.

    agreed, I mean she does more damage on her red than 4hor (with no charged tiles). I mean in terms of direct damage red she's behind Deadpool and Human Torch. Patch's red while possible having the best ratio is hard to do and obviously Punisher's has the best damage ratio of all if you can down a high health character
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    Not sure why all the hate on her. She has one of the top 5 Green's in the game, possible you could argue #3.

    Obvious 1. is X-Force, followed by 2. Call of the Storm.

    3. Could be many

    Sniper Rifle
    Skull Cracker
    Blammo!
    Beserker Rage
    Lightning Strike

    I would argue that while Sniper Rifle is the best green skill overall due to sheer power, you don't use it very often, in terms of useable skills I would put Skull, Blammo and Lightning all at the #3 spot, the only reason I say no to Beserker Rage is that it can backfire. We compare everything to X-Force which is not fair, if X-Force was still X-Farce, I think people would be saying that Gamora is a top tier chracter. I think people understimate the 2 turn stun I mean that's up to 6 free AP

    As for her Black, I'm still undecided, the problem is I don't have her leveled up enough to see the benefit from this, much like TBTI, if she's all that's left on the board this skill is lethal however you aren't going to ever really get more than 9 strike tiles on average, even if she's all that's left, because they only go to yellow tiles. I just realized this, which is why I'm starting to lean towards 5/5/3 as the better build, even if X-Force never existed. Even if she tanks 3 colors you are looking at an average of 7 tiles, and if she tanks only 2 in a balanced team, she's only going to be making 4. I think you would be better served by stunning 2 characters for 2 turns over some strike tiles that Black Panther could kick out that are better and cheaper. To me even if there was no X-Force Black Panther would be more useful than her black.

    Her black gives you 1k worth of strike tiles for 12ap, BP gives 525 for 9AP: I don't know how you would call BP's strictly better.

    Strike tiles no, but for the sheer fact I can do 12 turns worth of match damage from a Gamora with one Rage of the Panther and still kick out decent strike tiles isn't bad. If red is her best damage skill and you want strike tiles out quickly, waiting for Bad Reputation is not a good use of it, pairing her with Blade or Daken or Black Panther is going to pump out strike tiles much faster.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    Not sure why all the hate on her. She has one of the top 5 Green's in the game, possible you could argue #3.

    Obvious 1. is X-Force, followed by 2. Call of the Storm.

    3. Could be many

    Sniper Rifle
    Skull Cracker
    Blammo!
    Beserker Rage
    Lightning Strike

    I would argue that while Sniper Rifle is the best green skill overall due to sheer power, you don't use it very often, in terms of useable skills I would put Skull, Blammo and Lightning all at the #3 spot, the only reason I say no to Beserker Rage is that it can backfire. We compare everything to X-Force which is not fair, if X-Force was still X-Farce, I think people would be saying that Gamora is a top tier chracter. I think people understimate the 2 turn stun I mean that's up to 6 free AP

    As for her Black, I'm still undecided, the problem is I don't have her leveled up enough to see the benefit from this, much like TBTI, if she's all that's left on the board this skill is lethal however you aren't going to ever really get more than 9 strike tiles on average, even if she's all that's left, because they only go to yellow tiles. I just realized this, which is why I'm starting to lean towards 5/5/3 as the better build, even if X-Force never existed. Even if she tanks 3 colors you are looking at an average of 7 tiles, and if she tanks only 2 in a balanced team, she's only going to be making 4. I think you would be better served by stunning 2 characters for 2 turns over some strike tiles that Black Panther could kick out that are better and cheaper. To me even if there was no X-Force Black Panther would be more useful than her black.

    Her black gives you 1k worth of strike tiles for 12ap, BP gives 525 for 9AP: I don't know how you would call BP's strictly better.

    Strike tiles no, but for the sheer fact I can do 12 turns worth of match damage from a Gamora with one Rage of the Panther and still kick out decent strike tiles isn't bad. If red is her best damage skill and you want strike tiles out quickly, waiting for Bad Reputation is not a good use of it, pairing her with Blade or Daken or Black Panther is going to pump out strike tiles much faster.

    Daken yeah. She's a nonbo with Blade because her red requires, well, red AP and with Blade you never want to be matching red to keep him thirsty. If her green is as good as you think it is, a 5/5/3 build might be better overall: it certainly is more versatile than 3/5/5, but less powerful in a vacuum. I feel like either way you're restricted though: with 5/5/3 you're forced to pair her with Daken / BP if you want her red to be above average (since I don't see you bringing her along for her green and red without strike tiles since someone like Torch or Pun are much better for that I would imagine), whereas 3/5/5 imposes the Gamora tanking 3 colors restriction.
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    If red is her best damage skill and you want strike tiles out quickly, waiting for Bad Reputation is not a good use of it, pairing her with Blade or Daken or Black Panther is going to pump out strike tiles much faster.

    I agree - except maximising Daken and Blade's strike tiles means not matching Red, which limits your options to her black (which you have to prioritise, which means not collecting some available red) or the, probably intended, Rocket & Groot blue.

    Generally though, any low cost power benefits from having strike tiles out, including Deadpools far better red, or even (lol) Devil Dinosaurs more powerful green/red - and he has the benefit of a 20k health pool.

    I'm certainly not seeing a compelling argument for Gamora here. Restricted play-styles (get high cost X to make Y viable) only work if the payoff is significant - like 4Thor's. Not for something like this...
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daken yeah. She's a nonbo with Blade because her red requires, well, red AP and with Blade you never want to be matching red to keep him thirsty. If her green is as good as you think it is, a 5/5/3 build might be better overall: it certainly is more versatile than 3/5/5, but less powerful in a vacuum. I feel like either way you're restricted though: with 5/5/3 you're forced to pair her with Daken / BP if you want her red to be above average (since I don't see you bringing her along for her green and red without strike tiles since someone like Torch or Pun are much better for that I would imagine), whereas 3/5/5 imposes the Gamora tanking 3 colors restriction.

    100% agreed. While it's much easier to get her to tank 3 colors as compared to Patch you limit your team comps. And I agree in a vaccum 3/5/5 is the better way to go. Say you paired her with only 2*'s yeah I would go 3/5/5 in a heartbeat but once you have an established roster and you have Black Panther, X-Force her tiles are less imposing. I mean Doom, Torch and Psylocke do more damage assuming no cascades. With all the board destruction nowadays keeping things on the board is very hard. It's one reason I probably won't go level 5 in Rocket/Groot. Having 1 extra tile just increases the chance of one getting destroyed. But X-Force aside the other big reason I don't like Bad Reputation is because of the tile restriction. To get her to work and cover the most colors as possible you need strike tiles quickly to max her red but also having her tank many colors which is why pairing her with Daken is the worst thing possbile for her Black as he just stole 2 of her off colors and black, so now you would have to run a character that does not have yellow. That's why I would opt for Black Panther as he can get the quicker strike tiles out and as you said Blade needs red to create red strike tiles he isn't the best pairing, so that leaves you with running Daken or Black Panther. With Daken she will tank Green and probably red, but if you want three colors you have to forgo yellow, if you go with Black Panther you could give up purple and actually get her to tank 4 colors.

    Gamora/BP/(Magneto, Cap, Groot, She Hulk, Hulk, Storm, Hood, Patch, Beast, Colossus)--4 Colors she tanks
    Gamora/BP/(Deadpool, Daredevil, Fury, Black Widown, Falcon, Spidey, Mystique) --3 Colors she tanks

    if you try Daken

    Gamora/Daken/(Mystique, Black Widow, Blade, Daredevil, Deadpool, DocOck, She Hulk, Hulk, Punisher) 3 Colors

    I don't think it's possible to get Gamora to tank 4 colors when paried with Daken and some of the 4 color tank teams are actually decent, I wouldn't mind trying her with Magneto, Cap or Groot, Magneto would be the quicker of those and actually have a direct damage blue. I think pairing her with Black Panther is the best option if you want to max out all of her skills, you get strike tiles out fairly quickly for her red and the strike tiles go on yellow not red, leaving you free to match red without losing strike tiles and you can get a lot of strike tiles out with Bad Reputation if she's tanking 4 colors.
  • You guys are way too obsessed with using red, the same way originally people are obsessed with getting 3 red strike tiles with Psychic Knife for a low cost of 21 red AP. If you can get 2 reds off that's 10 red AP, which is 4 matches. For that you can get Captain America who has the same base HP and a way better red at 11 AP for the same number of matches.

    There's nothing particularly noteworthy about this character. She's probably playable even though her strong colors overlap way to much with many powerful characters. You don't need to create 15 strike tiles with the black to win the game either. She'd play similar to BP before his yellow was buffed, but is mostly unplayable in a developed roster because whenever anyone not herself is featured you won't be getting any colors at all.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phantron wrote:
    You guys are way too obsessed with using red, the same way originally people are obsessed with getting 3 red strike tiles with Psychic Knife for a low cost of 21 red AP. If you can get 2 reds off that's 10 red AP, which is 4 matches. For that you can get Captain America who has the same base HP and a way better red at 11 AP for the same number of matches.

    There's nothing particularly noteworthy about this character. She's probably playable even though her strong colors overlap way to much with many powerful characters. You don't need to create 15 strike tiles with the black to win the game either. She'd play similar to BP before his yellow was buffed, but is mostly unplayable in a developed roster because whenever anyone not herself is featured you won't be getting any colors at all.

    What we're talking about is what it takes for Gamora to not be a mediocre character. This either involves making her black good by building a team around her, or making her red / green good by... building a team around her. It's obvious that she specifically needs a team to be build around her since none of her abilities are good enough in a vacuum to carry a team in an average situation. The point is that we're trying to theorycraft a way to try and make her good, or else she is just stone mediocre.
  • Daken yeah. She's a nonbo with Blade because her red requires, well, red AP and with Blade you never want to be matching red to keep him thirsty. If her green is as good as you think it is, a 5/5/3 build might be better overall: it certainly is more versatile than 3/5/5, but less powerful in a vacuum. I feel like either way you're restricted though: with 5/5/3 you're forced to pair her with Daken / BP if you want her red to be above average (since I don't see you bringing her along for her green and red without strike tiles since someone like Torch or Pun are much better for that I would imagine), whereas 3/5/5 imposes the Gamora tanking 3 colors restriction.

    This is the same reason my Patch is 5/3/5. Board coverage is a bit hard to pull off. If you wind up in a prolonged battle with only Gamora left, 12 black, and like 60 tiles with her icon, feel free to make all the yellow tiles into str 74 (approximately) strike tiles. Beyond that I'm not going to collect 12 black, I'm not going to cover the board in Gamora tiles, and I am going to use that 2 round 2 person stun.
  • I refer you back to my suggestion earlier in the thread where you have to max her, pair her with Doom and a low level character with similar colours and a cheap spammable skill - then just use her in PvE against Goons. Race to 12 black (with Doom's blue helping) and with her tanking about 75%+ of the board it would be a massacre when she pops black.

    Very, very situational though.
  • There isn't a good way to build a good team around her because her color coverage is one of the most common that you're bound to run into a 'soandso can do this better'.

    For PvP she is immediately marginalized in any event you have a featured character above around level 120.

    For PvE any consideration for red runs into Captain America, who is probably the #1 PvE character in the game. For green/black, the number of characters that does this color coverage well is significant. For anti-goon purposes, you also run into Falcon and friends, who mows down goons very easily. Now if you're missing all the characters who are on top of their respective roles she's interchangeable with someone like HT or Punisher, but you're more likely to have either of those two covered than she is because she's newer. If everyone gets a max covered/leveled Gamora it's still not clear if she'd be any better than either of those two and you certainly don't have that.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phantron wrote:
    You guys are way too obsessed with using red, the same way originally people are obsessed with getting 3 red strike tiles with Psychic Knife for a low cost of 21 red AP. If you can get 2 reds off that's 10 red AP, which is 4 matches. For that you can get Captain America who has the same base HP and a way better red at 11 AP for the same number of matches.

    There's nothing particularly noteworthy about this character. She's probably playable even though her strong colors overlap way to much with many powerful characters. You don't need to create 15 strike tiles with the black to win the game either. She'd play similar to BP before his yellow was buffed, but is mostly unplayable in a developed roster because whenever anyone not herself is featured you won't be getting any colors at all.

    I agree Cap is a better character, he does everything she does plus gets tiles back, he just kicks out protect tiles instead of strike. Where I see her fitting in is with an X-Force and that's to just use all of the red that he would steal or just fall into due to cascade (4thor fills this better). And because you could underlevel X-Force and have her tank green does give her a chance at being used.

    I see her being used for these reasons.
    1. She's required (duh)
    2. She can use Bad Reputation after a Black steal from Surgical Strike
    3. She has a cheap red and X-force falls into lots of colors given you an outlet for red (assuming no 4hor)
    4. X-Force back up if he dies and you have green and black in your pool
    5. Your' better served with an AoE than an X-Force (Thor fills this better though)

    You are also right there isn't much special about her, she's decent not great not bad, she'll fit certain situations but for the most part you'll be better served with another character.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    I refer you back to my suggestion earlier in the thread where you have to max her, pair her with Doom and a low level character with similar colours and a cheap spammable skill - then just use her in PvE against Goons. Race to 12 black (with Doom's blue helping) and with her tanking about 75%+ of the board it would be a massacre when she pops black.

    Very, very situational though.

    No it won't, because her ability is capped by the number of yellow tiles. Even if all 64 tiles bared her symbol the most you get is 16 tiles, but there has to be 16 yellow on the board in order to get that, honestly the best one could really hope for is 9-10 strike tiles and that's assuming she's got 36+ tiles on the board and there is at least 9-10 yellow tiles
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