*** Gamora (Guardians of the Galaxy) ***

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  • wymtimewymtime Posts: 3,164 Chairperson of the Boards
    ShionSinX wrote:
    OK ok we got it, you two play MTG. The meta changes, it's life. Things get banned/nerfed and new ones come or old ones get remade/buffed. As it is now she's not that good, but when she's buffed and her red becomes a 3k nuke for 5 red and her icons are all over the place you will see her value.

    I'm not saying you will sell your x-force or hulk to use her, just leave her in the corner and when the right time comes she will do just fine. You never know when synergy with a new hero or a remade one will drop by.

    This is exactly what happens in most games of the strategy genre.

    She's not going to get buffed - If characters like Daredevil and Beast aren't being touched, then an average character like Gamora isn't going to see a change in eons.

    I am holding out Daredevil gets buffed. From the Q & A they said they are looking to release a character with traps this month, so I am hoping Daredevils gets a buff as well. Then my Daredevil will rule MPQ icon_twisted.gificon_lol.gificon_twisted.gif
  • Apparently Daredevil (and Loki) are getting buffed, so there's hope. Gamora's in line behind a lot of people, though.
  • ShionSinX wrote:
    OK ok we got it, you two play MTG. The meta changes, it's life. Things get banned/nerfed and new ones come or old ones get remade/buffed. As it is now she's not that good, but when she's buffed and her red becomes a 3k nuke for 5 red and her icons are all over the place you will see her value.

    I'm not saying you will sell your x-force or hulk to use her, just leave her in the corner and when the right time comes she will do just fine. You never know when synergy with a new hero or a remade one will drop by.

    This is exactly what happens in most games of the strategy genre.

    She's not going to get buffed - If characters like Daredevil and Beast aren't being touched, then an average character like Gamora isn't going to see a change in eons.
    On her PvP tournament at max level (166) she goes to 249. Thats what I meant, PvP and PvE buffed characters.
  • You know what, before having a chance to play her in pve I said she was a bad psylocke.

    Now that I've had a chance to play her, I'd say she's a bad psylocke.
  • Why does she have More Hp then Blade ?
  • Body Armor? Alien Badass? Because she doesn't have True Healing, so 8500 HP is almost necessary to be considered viable?
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    ark123 wrote:
    You know what, before having a chance to play her in pve I said she was a bad psylocke.

    Now that I've had a chance to play her, I'd say she's a bad psylocke.


    She's better than Psylocke, for the sole reason of having 1700 more hitpoints she is better. She has a btter red than Psyclocke, take either one of her other skills and they are better than Psylocke's blue, the question is Psylocke has a decent black so lets compare those. At double the cost you can get off 2 Psi-Katana's and lots of attack tiles so I'll give you Black on Psylocke, but....if you compare skills independently of color, Gamora has 3 useable skills, Psylocke has 1 and that's her black, because lets face it, without Daken or Blade Psylocke's red is just bad, to get it going by yourself requires 26 AP and hoping they don't blow up a tile, at that rate Gamora's done 9K with hers. If you compar Gamora's green to Psylocke's black, and Gamora's black to Pyslocke's blue you can see that Gamora is much better. I'm not saying Gamora's awesome, but she is better than Psylocke.
  • wymtimewymtime Posts: 3,164 Chairperson of the Boards
    Soooooooo, If Gamora does not tank any colors her black does not fire.....

    icon_neutral.gif um... ya... so as a vet she will be usefull when exactly icon_question.gif
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    ark123 wrote:
    You know what, before having a chance to play her in pve I said she was a bad psylocke.

    Now that I've had a chance to play her, I'd say she's a bad psylocke.

    She's better than Psylocke, for the sole reason of having 1700 more hitpoints she is better. She has a btter red than Psyclocke, take either one of her other skills and they are better than Psylocke's blue, the question is Psylocke has a decent black so lets compare those. At double the cost you can get off 2 Psi-Katana's and lots of attack tiles so I'll give you Black on Psylocke, but....if you compare skills independently of color, Gamora has 3 useable skills, Psylocke has 1 and that's her black, because lets face it, without Daken or Blade Psylocke's red is just bad, to get it going by yourself requires 26 AP and hoping they don't blow up a tile, at that rate Gamora's done 9K with hers. If you compar Gamora's green to Psylocke's black, and Gamora's black to Pyslocke's blue you can see that Gamora is much better. I'm not saying Gamora's awesome, but she is better than Psylocke.

    Yeah, what team are you using gamers in that psylocke would be worse? Because I'm doing the essentials with daken patch and her black can't be activated. Her red is okay, but worse than patches, and her green is straight up garbage.

    I'll take psylocke over gamora any day of the week. I have her at 4 covers, 2 black and 2 red, and she was great with everyone who makes strike tiles. BP, patch, daken, blade, groot.

    Gamora has one good skill. Her red. That's all.
  • ark, that's mostly a function of level, since she actually has to have tiles to contribute anything with her black. If she were 166 you'd make 4-6 yellow strike tiles with it each use. It's not terrible. It's not Psylocke blackflag.png good, but it's a decent skill to 3 cover. AoE damage with a double 2 round stun is going to be killer. Whichever team gets that 12 green and free 2 turns is the winner.

    Gamora redflag.png > Psylocke redflag.png If you run Daken/Psylocke, then you turn Psylocke's red into a poor woman's Gamora red. Costs 5, does direct damage, benefits from massive amounts of strike tiles.

    Do Gamora and Psylocke occupy the same neiche? Yes. Is Gamora a bad Psylocke? No.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    ark123 wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    ark123 wrote:
    You know what, before having a chance to play her in pve I said she was a bad psylocke.

    Now that I've had a chance to play her, I'd say she's a bad psylocke.

    She's better than Psylocke, for the sole reason of having 1700 more hitpoints she is better. She has a btter red than Psyclocke, take either one of her other skills and they are better than Psylocke's blue, the question is Psylocke has a decent black so lets compare those. At double the cost you can get off 2 Psi-Katana's and lots of attack tiles so I'll give you Black on Psylocke, but....if you compare skills independently of color, Gamora has 3 useable skills, Psylocke has 1 and that's her black, because lets face it, without Daken or Blade Psylocke's red is just bad, to get it going by yourself requires 26 AP and hoping they don't blow up a tile, at that rate Gamora's done 9K with hers. If you compar Gamora's green to Psylocke's black, and Gamora's black to Pyslocke's blue you can see that Gamora is much better. I'm not saying Gamora's awesome, but she is better than Psylocke.

    Yeah, what team are you using gamers in that psylocke would be worse? Because I'm doing the essentials with daken patch and her black can't be activated. Her red is okay, but worse than patches, and her green is straight up garbage.

    I'll take psylocke over gamora any day of the week. I have her at 4 covers, 2 black and 2 red, and she was great with everyone who makes strike tiles. BP, patch, daken, blade, groot.

    Gamora has one good skill. Her red. That's all.

    Yeah, lets compare your 4 cover gamora whose skill is specifically designed to require her to tank 3+ colors to a 4 cover psylocke that has no such restriction. It's a bad argument. Lets say we had a character who said "kill the enemy team if this character tanks 3 colors". Under your analysis, this would be a terrible character because all of your teams would have her not tanking three colors. The essential node that forces you to use a high level gamora is a much better indication of how she will play out in a B team built around her, and in that node, I cast black and destroyed the enemy team in the ensuing turns, which I don't see Psylocke doing with her black at all by herself. At least qualify your argument with "in the case where Gamora is not maxed which is going to be most of the time for veterans, she is worse than Psylocke", which is 100% true.
  • Gamora seems like a pretty solid character on the introductory node. Anyone who overlaps significantly with X Force on color coverage isn't viable in the long run but you can certainly do far worse than being another second-fiddle to X Force. She has purple as her strongest weak color and that's usually as good as owning the color given the dearth of usable purple powers at the high end.
  • Lerysh wrote:
    ark, that's mostly a function of level, since she actually has to have tiles to contribute anything with her black. If she were 166 you'd make 4-6 yellow strike tiles with it each use. It's not terrible. It's not Psylocke blackflag.png good, but it's a decent skill to 3 cover. AoE damage with a double 2 round stun is going to be killer. Whichever team gets that 12 green and free 2 turns is the winner.

    Gamora redflag.png > Psylocke redflag.png If you run Daken/Psylocke, then you turn Psylocke's red into a poor woman's Gamora red. Costs 5, does direct damage, benefits from massive amounts of strike tiles.

    Do Gamora and Psylocke occupy the same neiche? Yes. Is Gamora a bad Psylocke? No.

    I'm still waiting for your magical Gamora team at 166 that makes her black good. I can't think of one, can you?
  • Gamora/Spiderman/Falcon - 50% of board, 6 strike.png average and rainbow color coverage of powers with no overlap.

    Gamora/L.Cap/IM40 (5/5/1) 67% board control (Green/Red/Black/Purple) 8 strike.png average

    Gamora/Daken/Falcon 33% board control (Green/Red) 4 strike.png average.

    Even with your worst outcome of 33% at 3 covers with 166 you are getting about 300 in strike tiles for it, and those are instant and not on a 2 round CD.

    The skill's not good. It's more like "here's an outlet for black" on teams that wouldn't normally have that. It's also her 3 cover skill. I've been running Gamora/Cap/IM40 and getting 4-6 strike tiles occasionally because I have nothing better to use blacktile.png on, less than average because she is only 130 and Cap covers her red. Hood would be better, but it beats a kick to the face (or having no black active).
  • Um, how about Magneto (Classic), The Hood, and Gamora? Gamora in middle will have green, red (tie with Magneto), black (tie with The Hood), and purple (highest for weak color). There's probably a lot of characters you can substitute to still get 4 colors for Gamora (no strong purple, no strongest red, and no second strongest or better black). Character that fit this profile include:

    Black Panther
    Hulk
    Captain America
    Patch
    She-Hulk
    R&G
    Mohawk Storm
    Colossus
    Beast

    While not particularly a superstar cast of characters they're certainly quite playable.
  • Phantron wrote:
    Um, how about Magneto (Classic), The Hood, and Gamora? Gamora in middle will have green, red (tie with Magneto), black (tie with The Hood), and purple (highest for weak color). There's probably a lot of characters you can substitute to still get 4 colors for Gamora (no strong purple, no strongest red, and no second strongest or better black). Character that fit this profile include:

    Black Panther
    Hulk
    Captain America
    Patch
    She-Hulk
    R&G
    Mohawk Storm
    Colossus
    Beast

    While not particularly a superstar cast of characters they're certainly quite playable.

    And how would I want to build Gamora with each of these characters?

    Magneto
    535, he's one character that pairs well with a black-focused Gamora

    Hood
    I could see 553 or 535 here

    Black Panther
    553 because I will never use Gamora's black

    Hulk
    Why in god's name would I take Hulk on any team where he will tank no colors

    Captain America
    535 because I will rarely use Gamora's red but I'll be prioritizing red and blue so I probably won't use her black either

    Patch
    553 because I'm prioritizing green for Berzerker Rage and I want Patch to tank and true heal

    She-Hulk
    Wouldn't pair with Gamora because all of her powers are bad with Gamora

    RnG
    553, I'd run RnG's blue with Gamora's red

    Mohawk Storm
    553, moStorm has a good black and good yellow

    Colossus
    Wouldn't pair with Gamora

    Beast
    rAymisV.jpg?1

    So if we're going to build a team around Gamora's black, I'm only seeing Gamora+cMags+Hood being something I'd want to do, and cMags+Hood+??? has a heck of a lot of better options than Gamora for the ???. In all other cases I'd prefer Gamora to be 553.
  • edited December 2014
    Lerysh wrote:
    Gamora/Spiderman/Falcon - 50% of board, 6 strike.png average and rainbow color coverage of powers with no overlap.

    Gamora/L.Cap/IM40 (5/5/1) 67% board control (Green/Red/Black/Purple) 8 strike.png average

    Gamora/Daken/Falcon 33% board control (Green/Red) 4 strike.png average.

    Even with your worst outcome of 33% at 3 covers with 166 you are getting about 300 in strike tiles for it, and those are instant and not on a 2 round CD.

    The skill's not good. It's more like "here's an outlet for black" on teams that wouldn't normally have that. It's also her 3 cover skill. I've been running Gamora/Cap/IM40 and getting 4-6 strike tiles occasionally because I have nothing better to use blacktile.png on, less than average because she is only 130 and Cap covers her red. Hood would be better, but it beats a kick to the face (or having no black active).

    So looking at those teams it seems we're in agreement she sucks. Blade is better in every single case there.

    Here's when she's gonna be good. When she's boosted and high level. That is all. And in that case, the build should be 355, and then she should be paired with hood and goddess (cmags if we're sticking to 3* land)

    I see no other case where I wouldn't prefer another character to her.
  • There's a glut of green/red combination characters and of course there's also X Force looming for the black/green combo that renders pretty much any character with that combination of colors obselete. Thor (3*) was not used back when Sentry was at his full power not because Thor was weak but that they have exactly the same colors so you'd still use the stronger guy. They probably need to really rearrange some of the color so that you don't have certain combos being overwhelmingly common and thus making most characters of that combination worthless because there's always someone better with the same colors.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Man I wish green/black skills were switched. You could have made Sentry bombing viable. I'm going 3/5/5 just because I'm not in need of Green's and her black can work at times with Xforce if say they have a Daken you can Surgical strike into Bad Reputation
  • X-Force and Thor aside, Gamora and Fury would be about as good a two character team as I can imagine for a PVP where you don't have the feautred character leveled, both on offense and defense.

    People seem to be really nice underestimating how ridiculous her strike tiles are.
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