*** Rocket and Groot (Most Wanted)***

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Comments

  • ark123 wrote:
    So it's a clear 5/3/5, I guess. If blue spits out that kind of strike tile at lvl 1, I imagine it gets completely insane at lvl 5. Seems like a fixed beast.

    inb4 blue costs 15AP. Can we stop predicting builds without even knowing how the abilities progress in the first place? That's like me saying "I think he's gonna be 3/5/5 because 3->5 yellow sucks" even though none of us know how the abilities even progress with covers.

    The character introduction blurbs are so generic, they could be introducing the pre nerf Thunderclap and it'd read pretty uninteresting like, "Ragnarok strikes the enemy for modest damage while adding green tiles to the board, and higher level of it makes more efficient". I remember Mutagenic Breakthrough sounded pretty good when you don't mention that it's not likely to generate anywhere near 4 special tiles.

    Then there's also the fact that there's usually some increase in an ability that goes beyond a linear or even easily predictable pattern at level 5.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phantron wrote:
    ark123 wrote:
    So it's a clear 5/3/5, I guess. If blue spits out that kind of strike tile at lvl 1, I imagine it gets completely insane at lvl 5. Seems like a fixed beast.

    inb4 blue costs 15AP. Can we stop predicting builds without even knowing how the abilities progress in the first place? That's like me saying "I think he's gonna be 3/5/5 because 3->5 yellow sucks" even though none of us know how the abilities even progress with covers.

    The character introduction blurbs are so generic, they could be introducing the pre nerf Thunderclap and it'd read pretty uninteresting like, "Ragnarok strikes the enemy for modest damage while adding green tiles to the board, and higher level of it makes more efficient". I remember Mutagenic Breakthrough sounded pretty good when you don't mention that it's not likely to generate anywhere near 4 special tiles.

    Then there's also the fact that there's usually some increase in an ability that goes beyond a linear or even easily predictable pattern at level 5.


    Lol, I do love this, I remember when Nothern Polarity on Blade said always max a passive, and stated "When wouldn't you ever want a Passive maxed?" to which Phantron relpied "Deadpool" So yeah to make early predictions is dumb. From early stuff Mystique looked like she was going to be an OBW/HT hybrid and then we see what she is.

    If Groot has 10200 health then yes, this chracter will be good, if it's 6800, this guy will be just another collector's item.
  • CrookedKnightCrookedKnight Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,579 Chairperson of the Boards
    At level 40 they have 2640 HP, which is the She-Hulk/Ragnarok tier, a step above BP/IM40/Cap. Pretty solid.
  • SandwichboySandwichboy Age Unconfirmed Posts: 193 Tile Toppler
    Yellow is a true heal, green costs 10 and blue costs 11. base health is 2640, so really not that low for a 3*. Going by the descriptions of the level 5 abilities, this could easily be a powerhouse duo with the right comp.

    And yeah, like others have said, yellow, while potentially very powerful, is hard countered by CMags.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yellow is a true heal, green costs 10 and blue costs 11. base health is 2640, so really not that low for a 3*. Going by the descriptions of the level 5 abilities, this could easily be a powerhouse duo with the right comp.

    And yeah, like others have said, yellow, while potentially very powerful, is hard countered by CMags.

    The sad thing about the current state of the metagame for high end players is that all green / black powers are basically made irrelevant by X-Force. I look at this character and think to myself, Okay, so the green ability is irrelevant because of X-Force. How is the blue and passive? Passive seems good for sustainability but not for power, and the blue is a slow, 11 AP move that doesn't do anything the turn its cast, and takes 3 turns (probably down to 2 at level 5) to spawn strike tiles. This doesn't seem like a high priority because its not better than surgical strike, so its whatever when paired with XF. Therefore, another dud for the stable.

    Maybe I should just start thinking about characters as a transitioning player, since that seems much more exciting than everything new being obsoleted by 4*s.
  • edited November 2014
    Yellow is a true heal, green costs 10 and blue costs 11. base health is 2640, so really not that low for a 3*. Going by the descriptions of the level 5 abilities, this could easily be a powerhouse duo with the right comp.

    And yeah, like others have said, yellow, while potentially very powerful, is hard countered by CMags.

    The sad thing about the current state of the metagame for high end players is that all green / black powers are basically made irrelevant by X-Force. I look at this character and think to myself, Okay, so the green ability is irrelevant because of X-Force. How is the blue and passive? Passive seems good for sustainability but not for power, and the blue is a slow, 11 AP move that doesn't do anything the turn its cast, and takes 3 turns (probably down to 2 at level 5) to spawn strike tiles. This doesn't seem like a high priority because its not better than surgical strike, so its whatever when paired with XF. Therefore, another dud for the stable.

    Maybe I should just start thinking about characters as a transitioning player, since that seems much more exciting than everything new being obsoleted by 4*s.
    I think what D3 is trying to do is create a second transitional step.

    You know, as the game stands now there are 3 basic types of players:

    1 star teams with 2 stars beginning to be leveled

    2 star teams with 3 stars beginning to be leveled

    3 star teams

    Now, before the Xforce buff, that was where it ended.

    But then they released Nick Fury, who is pretty strong. Arguably stronger than most 3 stars.
    Devil Dino, who while not overly impactful, has enough health to be an effective scarecrow and ward off Sentry bombers.
    Xforce, who they buffed to the best character in the game.
    And then they are releasing Thoress, who looks like she'll compete with Xforce for the top crown once people can get covers for her.

    Right now, 4 stars are thrown in with 3 stars as the same realm. But I think eventually, there will be a new transitional step. From 3 stars to 4 stars.

    You're going to see many Thoress/Xforce teams in the future and a few other combinations I'm sure, plus all the new 4 stars that are surely coming out in the future.


    I think this is D3's solution to give the veterans something to play for. Adding new 3 stars wasn't really helping veterans because they already had their teams set and new characters were merely a new spice, rather than a way to replace their entrenched teams.

    Now that more 4 stars are coming out, they are forcing veterans to transition again, creating a new dynamic that I imagine they hope will spurn those from quitting, now that there is a new transition to go through.

    I remember the exhilaration of entering the 3 star phase, and I kind of miss that feeling of "Oh my god, yes! I won 2 3* covers."

    We'll see if they are able to revive that feeling in the vets as the game moves forward.

    Everyone is comparing 3 stars to Xforce and wondering why he is so much more powerful than the 3 stars. Honestly, 4 stars are looked at merely as more expensive 3 stars right now.

    But no one is doing that when comparing 2 stars to 3 stars. No one is wondering why Patch is so much better than Astonishing Wolverine. He just is.

    That is what they appear to be doing with 4 stars now.
  • I have an XF and I still keep my eyes open for others. To keep from running out of health packs I try to use more teams. Green and Purple are in high demand on my teams since that is what I am short on.

    I agree a Hood matched with Groot and Rocket seems solid. Hoods new yellow will hit hard and Groot and Rocket's Yellow is passive. Hoods blue is passive and Groot and Rocket's is not. So really it is the third team member that matters. Purple and red.... Deadpool? (when you can use the third member that is)
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Rocket and Groot's blue is what Beasts should have been.

    Curious as to how yellow will play out, as is you have to be below 25% to get it to work, I'm guessing the more you level the more you heal, I don't see Threshold going higher than 25%. Green could be interesting depending on end result.
  • Lerysh wrote:
    I will put money down on "I Got a Plan" being A) too costly and 2) too long a CD to see much active use. Especially if said CD is randomly placed.

    Well, it's not randomly placed (I think) but it is 3 turns and costs 11, so it's nominally a SEVEN turn move for 110 in strike tiles. Too bad no one took the bet. If at 5 covers this is a 1 turn CD it MIGHT be a worthy move. If instead its like 6 strike.png for a 3 turn CD it's the winner of the you get 3 covers prize.
  • New character event on wednesday? Hmmm
  • Lerysh wrote:
    Lerysh wrote:
    I will put money down on "I Got a Plan" being A) too costly and 2) too long a CD to see much active use. Especially if said CD is randomly placed.

    Well, it's not randomly placed (I think) but it is 3 turns and costs 11, so it's nominally a SEVEN turn move for 110 in strike tiles. Too bad no one took the bet. If at 5 covers this is a 1 turn CD it MIGHT be a worthy move. If instead its like 6 strike.png for a 3 turn CD it's the winner of the you get 3 covers prize.
    I look forward to seeing how the 5 covers affects that ability, but they've already said it will provide more pop than Sentry's sacrifice.

    So you're looking at a minimum of 674 total strength if it goes off.

    That's nothing to sneeze at.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    onimus wrote:
    Lerysh wrote:
    Lerysh wrote:
    I will put money down on "I Got a Plan" being A) too costly and 2) too long a CD to see much active use. Especially if said CD is randomly placed.

    Well, it's not randomly placed (I think) but it is 3 turns and costs 11, so it's nominally a SEVEN turn move for 110 in strike tiles. Too bad no one took the bet. If at 5 covers this is a 1 turn CD it MIGHT be a worthy move. If instead its like 6 strike.png for a 3 turn CD it's the winner of the you get 3 covers prize.
    I look forward to seeing how the 5 covers affects that ability, but they've already said it will provide more pop than Sentry's sacrifice.

    So you're looking at a minimum of 674 total strength if it goes off.

    That's nothing to sneeze at.

    There are some things that make it a lot worse than Sentry's tile.
    1. It's 11 AP. 8->11AP is realistically 2-3 more turns on an average board since the board is dry of that AP by the time you get it off.
    2. CD tile delays it by another 2 turns at level 5 probably.

    This means that it's 4 turns slower on average than Sentry, which is equivalent to doing minimum 2k less damage than it.

    The more I look at Groot, the more I don't like the character.
    1. His yellow is situational and only good if Groot tanks a lot of colors and takes damage, and only if the damage he takes isn't enough to one shot him from above 25% to 0.
    2. Blue is expensive enough, and strike tiles want to be out early, so you need to prioritize the ability. However, if your roster has characters that have better abilities and you're not prioritizing it, its really bad since you'll cast it so infrequently. Compare this to mystiques blue, which is faster and is good at any point of the match. I'm not saying "Groots blue is worse than MQs blue therefore its bad", I'm saying "Groots blue is such that if you're not prioritizing it, it gets a lotttt worse than other abilities do).
    3. His one unconditional ability is in a color that is probably the most contested color in the game.

    He probably fills some sort of PvE true healer tank niche, but I'm not too hopeful. I think he falls off the radar once you get any of the plentiful green powerhouses in the game, such as X-Force, Sentry, LazyThor, Patch, etc.
  • Once you get into the range of AP where the board does not start with enough tiles it's a lot more than 2-3 turns for the extra match. If both players match 4 tiles a turn, you'd need to generate 21 tiles to replenish 3 tiles of any given color, which the AI is roughly as likely as you to get, so even if the new tiles magically fall in an instantly matchable position it'd take 5 turns to get another match 3 of a color once the board is depleted. Of course the vast majority of the time they also wouldn't be generated anywhere near an immediately matchable position.

    I think some people have a really skewed perception of how much time another match 3 takes due to boosts + beating up inferior team with The Hood (he cancels himself out against another The Hood, so it's only possible against weaker teams).
  • GuntherBlobelGuntherBlobel Posts: 987 Critical Contributor
    Yellow is a true heal, green costs 10 and blue costs 11. base health is 2640, so really not that low for a 3*. Going by the descriptions of the level 5 abilities, this could easily be a powerhouse duo with the right comp.

    And yeah, like others have said, yellow, while potentially very powerful, is hard countered by CMags.
    It's hard countered by itself too (self-regulating), so it may not be as OP as people think. I often have no desire to cast Polarizing Force more than once per game (unless there is a huge board shake-up later on). It sounds like a full free heal once per game and then something quite more like 2* Wolvies heal for the rest of the game, which can keep with match damage, but little else.
  • orionpeaceorionpeace Posts: 346 Mover and Shaker
    I have to say I am not fond of an ability that puts out a countdown timer that then generates special tiles.

    There are too many Heroes that can cause board shakeup to get rid of it and too easy to match away. Especially if you don't get to place the tile.

    Overall, that is a big commitment in tile collecting (11 AP) that could result in absolutely nothing.

    It is a better implementation than Beast's blue, but that isn't saying a lot.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    orionpeace wrote:
    I have to say I am not fond of an ability that puts out a countdown timer that then generates special tiles.

    There are too many Heroes that can cause board shakeup to get rid of it and too easy to match away. Especially if you don't get to place the tile.

    Overall, that is a big commitment in tile collecting (11 AP) that could result in absolutely nothing.

    It is a better implementation than Beast's blue, but that isn't saying a lot.


    If the CD timer goes to one it would be okay. During the god awful Beast PvP if I was dumb enough to cast Mutagenic Breaktrhough it generally resolved, however because you can place the tile tells me it's going to have at least a 2 CD countdown if not 3.
  • Yellow is a true heal, green costs 10 and blue costs 11. base health is 2640, so really not that low for a 3*. Going by the descriptions of the level 5 abilities, this could easily be a powerhouse duo with the right comp.

    And yeah, like others have said, yellow, while potentially very powerful, is hard countered by CMags.
    It's hard countered by itself too (self-regulating), so it may not be as OP as people think. I often have no desire to cast Polarizing Force more than once per game (unless there is a huge board shake-up later on). It sounds like a full free heal once per game and then something quite more like 2* Wolvies heal for the rest of the game, which can keep with match damage, but little else.
    How often do you think you'll be dropping below 25% health?

    I think once a game is fine.
  • GuntherBlobelGuntherBlobel Posts: 987 Critical Contributor
    onimus wrote:
    Yellow is a true heal, green costs 10 and blue costs 11. base health is 2640, so really not that low for a 3*. Going by the descriptions of the level 5 abilities, this could easily be a powerhouse duo with the right comp.

    And yeah, like others have said, yellow, while potentially very powerful, is hard countered by CMags.
    It's hard countered by itself too (self-regulating), so it may not be as OP as people think. I often have no desire to cast Polarizing Force more than once per game (unless there is a huge board shake-up later on). It sounds like a full free heal once per game and then something quite more like 2* Wolvies heal for the rest of the game, which can keep with match damage, but little else.
    How often do you think you'll be dropping below 25% health?

    I think once a game is fine.
    Oh yeah, I think it's going to be really useful and fun to play for sure. It doesn't sound super scary to fight either, which is good as far as I'm concerned.
  • turulturul Posts: 1,622 Chairperson of the Boards
    So it will be wise to enter the fight 25% or below (probably up to 40-50% at cover 5), so we can 1-match Mistress of the Elements
  • CrookedKnightCrookedKnight Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,579 Chairperson of the Boards
    Just bear in mind that unlike MOTE or Polarizing Impact making a yellow match ends your turn, so you run the risk of handing the AI a free match-four or crit.
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