Nefarious Foes - Matchmaking Test - Discussion

Unknown

I give à try at the beggining and, to be fair, all i was abble to sea was unbeateable teams of sentry/daken/ares/cmag/doom.
But i fight Again and again despite the incredible cost of buff and heal.
It went easier for a moment so i manage to gain some points and
I stand now at 420 and can only progress 1 match every 3 hour cause teams in front of me are too strong to allow me to play 2 matchs in a row (poors characters need to rest and heal pack to refresh).
I usualy rank myself around 750pt cause it's at this point of progression where i have to wait heal packs in order to fight again.

Despite the difficulty, im top 20 in m'y bracket in witch first have 1100pt+ and second 550+.
For the records¥ i m about to end 2* to 3* transition with 6 3* at 150+.

I have mixed feelingswith the mmr change. I find necessary to fix it so im pleased. But i do not like at all the difficulty to progress and the miss of iso thats represent.

Unknown

I do not like this new MMR. I do not like it on a plane or a car.

I do not like facing all max sentry/laken/hood. This new MMR is no tiny kitty good.

I do not like flying through health packs. The developers must all be on crack.

If you want to know what's is FUBAR, just look at the new MMR.

*drops mic and flips both middle fingers*

(Disclaimer - did not read HiFi's post prior to my post)

Unknown

Thanks for the update David that helped, cheers

Unknown

"David wrote:

Moore"]Hi everyone,

Here's additional info on the current Versus test from the team at Demiurge:

*UPDATE (11/13/14)

"Firstly, to everyone that provided feedback on their experience so far: THANK YOU. We're not just saying we're thankful, we're showing it by sending everyone that plays in the Event an Event Token for the next Versus Event. You'll receive it at the end of Nefarious Foes.

Secondly, we want to apologize for a mistake we made in the first few hours of this change.

We were too aggressive in setting a parameter that limits the extent to which strong teams will be matched with weaker teams. In a test environment, where there are fewer teams, you'd still see a good variety of matches, but on the live server, the band was too small, and players were matched exclusively with opponents very close to their level. We corrected this roughly three hours in, but a lot of folks had a sub-par experience and that's our fault.

We also apologize for running this test on an Event with a newer cover as the reward. We prioritized making sure that the test didn't affect a Season over other considerations, and wanted to make sure you had the chance to earn Mystique before her featured spot in the Simulator had passed.

Third, please keep playing Nefarious Foes and providing feedback! This is a live test, rather than on a test server because Versus matchmaking can perform very differently at scale, and its behavior can be sensitive to the way that players interact with it. We needed a test with lots of real players actively competing to understand the full impact. A test with a few forum players wouldn't have helped us understand how the changes affect new players, and likely wouldn't have caught the mistake we made in the first version of Nefarious Foes' matchmaking.

In news going forward, we released another update to the matchmaking today, but it looks like feedback has died down significantly. We're going to leave this change up until the end of Nefarious Foes because we need to know what the full impact throughout a Versus Event looks like. Once it wraps, we'll do an update with our findings. Let us know how this version compares to your experience in previous Versus Events!

One of the big problems we're trying to eliminate with these changes: at times under the old matchmaking system, low-level players (some with their best characters as low as level 40) could get into a situation where they were being matchmade mostly against high-level 3* teams (we'd expect that to happen if they had climbed to the top of the rankings, but this was happening before that point). So we're particularly interested to hear if you're seeing opponents that are much higher level than your best team (taking the Event buff into account). We're also trying to smooth out the difficulty curve, so that as you advance up the leaderboard, the difficulty of your opponents increases more evenly than before.

We realize we're extremely lucky to have such a dedicated, vibrant and attentive community. We absolutely do not take that for granted. We hope you'll join us when we make changes that improve the game for everyone. We fundamentally cannot improve Marvel Puzzle Quest without making changes. Versus matchmaking deserves to be better, and we want to work with the community to improve it.

Thanks again for your feedback, and thanks for playing."

I appreciate this at least not being done on season. I know we should be grateful for any compensation, so I genuinely hesitate to say this as I write it. However, I wish tokens would not be the chosen form of compensation. If all players go through the same hardships, it doesn't seem right some will get a nice 3* cover as compensation, while most of us will only get a2* which most players don't need. I don't have a suggestion or recommendation of what would be a so better alternative, and I'm just grateful there is any compensation. It's something to consider for the future.

Also, most players don't get on the forum. So more in game announcements like the one for roster slot refunds would probably have more efficacy, especially since most of them are probably baffled and really peeved with the way MMR had been acting.

Unknown

I like the changes. My vote is to keep it. But thats just me. It seems as if facing teams of similar score makes alot of sense and that progression will take time since i am no longer seeing the 40-50 point chances...even the 30 scores are rare for me. I would assume this will also keep players from shooting up the ranks during the very last few hours. It also seems like you did something with the scoring when you win or lose on defense? Anyways, I like it, no real complaints.

xKOBALTx

So far, I hate it. Pretty decent high level roster (10 maxed 3* - pretty much all the top voted). Currently in 5th place with 324 points that I more or less had to Sentry-bomb to obtain . I'm also seeing under-leveled rosters in those high spots. I get trying to fix the matching issues for those lower rosters, but don't make it a cake walk for them and an endurance trial for us. You've already given those players the PvE side, don't give them the PvP side, too.

I always thought it would be fun in the high level game. I would fly like an eagle. It's starting to feel more like an albatross.

Unknown

I hate the new mmr!!! Totally horrible! But u have to admit 2 things...
1- they will probably make a lot of money off health packs since after the first 4 matches u may need them or u will lose a bunch of ISO from skipping opponents and using boosts- so it will take ppl longer to max characters


2. Their servers prob won't crash as often cuz they will prob get less activity cuz ppl can't play as much diue to the frustration or quitting cuz they sucked the fun out of the game... Who wants to sentry bomb on their first node... Lol

Sounds like a win win to me!

To bad they couldn't tier this new match making..

Unknown

I think the points per match and points lost for defence need to change to accommodate the new mmr.

I am facing hard teams, but barely getting any progression points and i am losing too much in the process. Cut the losses by thirty percent and up gains by five. That or change progression reward

simonsez

Sorry, but it's still garbage. I should not be seeing a steady stream of 3 x lv332 teams when I don't even have 100 points yet! If, as you say, the goal is "as you advance up the leaderboard, the difficulty of your opponents increases more evenly than before", the new algorithm is failing miserable for 3* players.

kidicarus

This is seriously bull ****.

I've not started nefarious foes but cycling through my available match ups gives me a wall of teams with multiple 332s. This is not my idea of fun. In fact, I don't even want to play.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

Sorry, but it's still garbage. I should not be seeing a steady stream of 3 x lv332 teams when I don't even have 100 points yet! If, as you say, the goal is "as you advance up the leaderboard, the difficulty of your opponents increases more evenly than before", the new algorithm is failing miserable for 3* players.

Impressive signature!

Unknown

"David wrote:

Moore"]Hi everyone,

Here's additional info on the current Versus test from the team at Demiurge:

*UPDATE (11/13/14)

"Firstly, to everyone that provided feedback on their experience so far: THANK YOU. We're not just saying we're thankful, we're showing it by sending everyone that plays in the Event an Event Token for the next Versus Event. You'll receive it at the end of Nefarious Foes.

Secondly, we want to apologize for a mistake we made in the first few hours of this change.

We were too aggressive in setting a parameter that limits the extent to which strong teams will be matched with weaker teams. In a test environment, where there are fewer teams, you'd still see a good variety of matches, but on the live server, the band was too small, and players were matched exclusively with opponents very close to their level. We corrected this roughly three hours in, but a lot of folks had a sub-par experience and that's our fault.

We also apologize for running this test on an Event with a newer cover as the reward. We prioritized making sure that the test didn't affect a Season over other considerations, and wanted to make sure you had the chance to earn Mystique before her featured spot in the Simulator had passed.

Third, please keep playing Nefarious Foes and providing feedback! This is a live test, rather than on a test server because Versus matchmaking can perform very differently at scale, and its behavior can be sensitive to the way that players interact with it. We needed a test with lots of real players actively competing to understand the full impact. A test with a few forum players wouldn't have helped us understand how the changes affect new players, and likely wouldn't have caught the mistake we made in the first version of Nefarious Foes' matchmaking.

In news going forward, we released another update to the matchmaking today, but it looks like feedback has died down significantly. We're going to leave this change up until the end of Nefarious Foes because we need to know what the full impact throughout a Versus Event looks like. Once it wraps, we'll do an update with our findings. Let us know how this version compares to your experience in previous Versus Events!

One of the big problems we're trying to eliminate with these changes: at times under the old matchmaking system, low-level players (some with their best characters as low as level 40) could get into a situation where they were being matchmade mostly against high-level 3* teams (we'd expect that to happen if they had climbed to the top of the rankings, but this was happening before that point). So we're particularly interested to hear if you're seeing opponents that are much higher level than your best team (taking the Event buff into account). We're also trying to smooth out the difficulty curve, so that as you advance up the leaderboard, the difficulty of your opponents increases more evenly than before.

We realize we're extremely lucky to have such a dedicated, vibrant and attentive community. We absolutely do not take that for granted. We hope you'll join us when we make changes that improve the game for everyone. We fundamentally cannot improve Marvel Puzzle Quest without making changes. Versus matchmaking deserves to be better, and we want to work with the community to improve it.

Thanks again for your feedback, and thanks for playing."

Thanks for passing a lot of information to us.

Some things have been mentioned earlier, but i can't miss all of them, as they are too important.
Especially the fact, that we have a big set of chars boosted, the experience for this PvP is something completely different compared to a "normal" season event with one featured char and two non-buffed.
As of such, it is almost impossible for me, to compare the difficulty/changes to what i have had in the last season.
What i lacked from the start were some easy climbing. I was more like "Wow, why do we have a football knock out fight Germany vs. Argentina in the championships qualifier, rather than the final of the world championship?
That is explained with your post above, as i was quite early in and got through all my health packs in two or three fights. This is slightly improved during yesterday and this morning, as i can get with one or two skips a target, that is not a squad of fully maxed, boosted chars.
Still, the health pack consumption is from my opinion to strong for "just" the climbing face. I go along with you, that there should be an increase in difficulty , the higher you get in the rankings and of course the more points you score. But what i'm really missing the last days, including PvE (i don't have a deep roster, just one max 3* so far and then some kind of gap, i'm trying to fill first with, of course, Sentry), is the opportunity to play 10, 15 matches without being through all my health packs. Due to scaling, it wont do for the essential nodes in Pve, LRs i wondered, whether i was just unlucky or if the new MM was implemented there as well, as sometimes , with being 30 minutes late in the LR, it was hard getting even 100 points (usually only 4 fights, where it have been 6-7 earlier, meaning more points per team, due to stronger teams) without running out of packs. So what i like to do, chilling for an hour or so, while grinding through 15, 20 matches the like, as a combination of PvE, PvP, LR, is right now not possible anymore.
Which makes it even harder, to earn the Iso i need to level my chars. So the iso generation during LR-days, i had before, broke down by somewhat around 40% - 50% from 10K a day to 5K a day roughly.
And this is, what is annoying, as it prevents me from getting at least somewhat up to the long time players. Hell, even i can't keep pace with the amount of Iso, i need to level the chars you are throwing into the game. Remember, alone two new 3*s in the game a month are about 340K iso. By the time, one can generate far below 10K a day on average, that is frustrating.
So, as keeping the "running" into the vet-wall shouldn't be to early, there is still some need for a couple easy matches, seed teams or any other means, where we can really generate some Iso to keep some pace for levelling all the new chars you are providing.

Spoit

Yeah, I'm not sure what people are seeing re: the 2nd tweak, because I'm still seeing a maxed sentry, laken, and/or hood in about 90% of the skips I'm getting. The only difference I'm seeing is just that the occasional 10% of them either are running rags or doom or something for a 3rd, instead of all three, or they might be in the mid 200s, which is like 140 unboosted, which makes oh so much of a difference.

Between the progression rewards and daily rewards, I had 9 health packs, but even with an easy 70 points from my saved seeds, I was only able to get to _300_ points with them.

I'll give it one more pvp in a more regular tournament, but if it stays like this, I'm out (again). Especially with DAI and FC4 coming out next week

ViralCore

I started later than a number of my alliance members, it was sometime after the 3hr tweak, and I have to admit that this new mmr is not at all fun. I was still matched with maxed 3* teams after the first 6 or 7 rounds. This does not make the game enjoyable. Part of the allure of the previous mmr was that I got to build momentum before hitting the max 3*. Now it's just one big grind... it's like playing the gauntlet without any of the decent rewards and using just as many, if not more, health packs.

This is a terrible way to treat those of us who have spent larger sums of money on this game. I know it's a challenge for those who are transitioning from 2* to 3* but those of us with a mature 3* roster have all been there.

Bring back the old mmr or find one better than the one you're testing right now.

Mathrim

I have made 1,1 K points, but there are still problems.

1. Even people with 0-200 points are attacking me. I think they should not see me on the nodes with so big point difference.
2. There are much more attacks from another people. During playing 1-2 games, I am often attacked 4 times. This should not happen.
3. Coming to 1,1K points was much higher cost in coins and life points than before. Where from should we take money fo that. The game is now more expensive .

Unknown

I think getting rid of mostly the filler fights against guys who have no chance of beating you is good but now shields give way too much of an advantage since your score seems to be roughly halved compared to before. Or maybe that's the effect from Sentry bombing, since you'll be able to win with Sentry regardless of who your opponent is and now that each point is much harder to come by, the difference is even more magnified than before.

Unknown

I'm thankful that the season hasn't started or else I would be pulling my hair out because of this horrible MMR test. i'm a 2* transitioning to 3*. 200 pts in and I'm already being put against 3*. I don't like having to use my health packs each time I play a node. The way I've progressed previous times on pvp is much more amusing than this. It feels like I earned the spot.

Unknown

Honestly I wouldn't have know something g was up unless you told me. Seemed a little hard yesterday but there were many boosted characters. And today it seems normal I got to 1100 progression with one hop. Probably a rough tournament to test it In though because daken sentry hood buffed are insane.

Spoit

RageFace wrote:

Honestly I wouldn't have know something g was up unless you told me. Seemed a little hard yesterday but there were many boosted characters. And today it seems normal I got to 1100 progression with one hop. Probably a rough tournament to test it In though because daken sentry hood buffed are insane.

...how?

Unknown

Spoit wrote:

RageFace wrote:

Honestly I wouldn't have know something g was up unless you told me. Seemed a little hard yesterday but there were many boosted characters. And today it seems normal I got to 1100 progression with one hop. Probably a rough tournament to test it In though because daken sentry hood buffed are insane.

...how?

Maybe he just "plays harder"?
On topic, I agree that Nefarious Foes seems to be a poor environment to test the new matchmaking. With the 100% level boost it is mandatory to use villains (ie. Sentry/Daken/Hood, occasionally Cmags, for 3* players) thereby preventing people from using characters they use in "normal" circumstances. Heck, I even saw some 2-3* transition players using underleveled and poorly-covered 3* villains instead of their presumably usual teams of Ares, OBW, Thor, etc. maybe because their level 90 3* villains were buffed to 180. I think it would have been better to test this on a No Holds Barred PVP to get more accurate data resembling how people play on the usual featured+2 PVP.