*** Blade (Daywalker) ***

Unknown

dearbluey wrote:

Something struck me odd about Blade today.
He carries a gun. That's fine. That's part of his character.
However...none of his abilities use it. Nightstalker? Sword slash. Keep Your Enemies Closer? Sword pointing dramatically. The Thirst? Nope...
Did he run out of bullets, or is it just to look cool and threatening?

Deadpool doesn't use his guns either...unless they're taped to the whales.

Unknown

Been using Blade a lot, but finding too often with a bad board he's just absolutely useless; too many weaknesses.

1. If you're not farming Green, his Nightstalker is too likely to be matched away. This pretty much forces you to use a Green focused user if you want black usable. He seems to work best with Daken + GYR user,
2. He's bad against red focused teams (excepting goon ninjas).
3. It's hard to get an attack tile user to work with his strike tiles, as they're usually on black and black is the premier attack tile generating color.

He's definitely decent at killing things fast when things are going right. Still, sharing colours with Iron Fist is probably going to lower his worth significantly, who'll at least get you auto damage.


Blade's gun is filled will silver bullets. They're more for killing the undead, not nearly as good for fighting the living. Silver is expensive.

Jetness

Stupid/obvious question here, but I can't figure it out and it's bugging me.

Why is Blade's passive skill Green if the skill is for Red tiles? How does the skill have anything to do with Green?

If I understand the skill, you don't need to have any green tiles or need green tiles on the board for the skill to activate.

What am I missing?

- Jetness

Unknown

Jetness wrote:

Stupid/obvious question here, but I can't figure it out and it's bugging me.

Why is Blade's passive skill Green if the skill is for Red tiles? How does the skill have anything to do with Green?

If I understand the skill, you don't need to have any green tiles or need green tiles on the board for the skill to activate.

What am I missing?

- Jetness

Passives aren't necessarily tied to any color in particular but they have to be classified as something in terms of a color.

Unknown

Red is generally a direct damage ability, so they probably didn't want make it that color. However, red represents blood, so the ability affects those tiles. There's quite a few other abilities where colors don't match up either:
Gamora -> creates strike tiles.
Punisher -> creates a countdown (representing fire)
Daken -> relies on matching creates strike on red (blood?), relies on (heat) on the board
Iron Fist -> Also creates red

Strike tiles generally have an affinity to red.

Jetness

Thanks! I feel better knowing that I'm not missing something. I didn't realize that it happens for other characters too; thanks for the info!!

daibar wrote:

Red is generally a direct damage ability, so they probably didn't want make it that color. However, red represents blood, so the ability affects those tiles. There's quite a few other abilities where colors don't match up either:
Gamora -> creates strike tiles.
Punisher Black -> creates a countdown (representing fire)
Daken Pink -> relies on matching , relies on (heat) on the board

Pwuz_

So I'm sitting here with 5 Black for my Blade, planning on respecing down to 3 when I get the covers for it because as we are all aware, draining 3 AP per turn (especially when you get a few of those out) starts to suck on a dry well pretty much after 2 turns or so.

What if Blade's Black had an additional ability when they drain an empty color?

There are a few different options I can think of for this:
Drain from a random AP.
Drain from the next strongest AP.
Drain X amount of Health.
Deals X Team Damage.
Team Heal for X Health.

This type of change could encourage a more diverse build for Blade as 5 Black would become more desirable.

Now to be clear, I'm advocating that this change be across the board for Blade's Black, not just at level 5. Obviously this secondary ability becomes more powerful or usable at 5 covers, but even at 1 cover it's quite likely that you'll reach a point that this secondary skill would activate.

Thoughts?

Edit: A more appropriate place to continue this discussion since I hadn't noticed the new Sub Forum.

Pwuz_

Damn, didn't see this fancy new Sub-Forum when I made this suggestion earlier.

In a nutshell:
SparklyVampKiller's Black should have a secondary ability that activates when it tries to drain AP from the strongest color and it's already empty.

Any of the following would vastly improve SparklyVampKiller's Black:
Drain from a random AP.
Drain from the next strongest AP.
Drain X amount of Health.
Deals X Team Damage.
Team Heal for X Health.

Unknown

Questions:
If you are fighting a goon (say don), and they already have 0 of a particular AP you're trying to drain (say black), what is their next strongest? Do you try again with another color if the 2nd color also has 0 AP? How many retries do you get?

If you're fighting against Blade with 0 AP and he has the Nightstalker tile out, is there a way for you to gain enough AP to fire off an ability? I think changing it so that Blade drains no matter what would make him too much to handle on defense. If there's a Nightstalker tile out, he already hampers your primary power so you're forced to use weaker secondary abilities to defeat him. Making it so you could never gain AP until you destroy the tile seems unfair.

Dealing extra damage might work. Team heal seems counter-intuitive: you're not draining anything, so why are you healing? Further, Blade's not really a team healer, especially in battle. Blade seems powerful enough that I don't really see D3 looking at changing him.

Disclaimer: I have a 5/5/3 Blade. (bad luck with green covers)

peteer01

Even something as simple as "Or drains 1 random AP from an another color" at level 5 would have a meaningful impact, and give people a better reason to consider 5 black.

Unknown

daibar wrote:

Questions:
If you are fighting a goon (say don), and they already have 0 of a particular AP you're trying to drain (say black), what is their next strongest? Do you try again with another color if the 2nd color also has 0 AP? How many retries do you get?

If you're fighting against SparklyVampKiller with 0 AP and he has the Nightstalker tile out, is there a way for you to gain enough AP to fire off an ability? I think changing it so that SparklyVampKiller drains no matter what would make him too much to handle on defense. If there's a Nightstalker tile out, he already hampers your primary power so you're forced to use weaker secondary abilities to defeat him. Making it so you could never gain AP until you destroy the tile seems unfair.

Dealing extra damage might work. Team heal seems counter-intuitive: you're not draining anything, so why are you healing? Further, SparklyVampKiller's not really a team healer, especially in battle. SparklyVampKiller seems powerful enough that I don't really see D3 looking at changing him.

Disclaimer: I have a 5/5/3 SparklyVampKiller. (bad luck with green covers)

Blade's drain operates on its own rules. Prior to Professor X he's the only person who operates on this special set of rules for 'strongest color'.

Assuming exact match damage ties, Blade is equally likely to steal from any color tied for highest match where an opponent has an ability. The original Ragnarok, who has green and red being identical strength, would allow you to steal from red or green. Goons, who have every match damage tied, would allow you to steal from all colors they've an ability in, including passives. In fact with goons it's quite possible to have a case where it is possible to steal from every color in the game. Note that it is also possible to steal from a color where an opponent has nothing. Teisatsus do not generate black AP (I think) but has a black passive, so if you're fighting only Teisatsus, there's a 50% chance of stealing black which should never have anything. You don't get a second shot if you stole from a color that has 0.

I don't know if it's intended this way, but because Nightstalker generally can steal from 2 and sometimes 3 colors (if all 3 characters are same level and rarity) being able to steal 3 instead of 2 at a time does matter.

Unknown

So did we ever decide how to spec blade properly? I just managed to sneak to #2 of Black Vortex(somehow?) but My blade is already 5/5/3.

In my experience, at 3 , it doesn't work enough to do properly. Sometimes Daken is there, but I have a feeling more strike tiles won't be a bad thing even if I max out all the red on board, hypothetically. 5 seems extremely necessary and 5 is nice, but really only maximally used on goons(and countering goons isn't a big deal).

Should I use the I earned to turn him 4/5/4(and eventually 3/5/5)?

Pwuz_

raisinbman wrote:

So did we ever decide how to spec SparklyVampKiller properly? I just managed to sneak to #2 of Black Vortex(somehow?) but My SparklyVampKiller is already 5/5/3.

In my experience, at 3 , it doesn't work enough to do properly. Sometimes Nananananananana…Tatman! is there, but I have a feeling more strike tiles won't be a bad thing even if I max out all the red on board, hypothetically. 5 seems extremely necessary and 5 is nice, but really only maximally used on goons(and countering goons isn't a big deal).

Should I use the I earned to turn him 4/5/4(and eventually 3/5/5)?

Pretty much my plan is to move to 3/5/5 as 5 Green feeds the Purple, and the extra tile at 5 Purple effectively doubles it's damage.

5 Black really is only useful against goons, since after a 2-3 rounds it's just draining a dry well. Now if they changed it to have a secondary effect when when it's draining from an empty AP pool...

GrumpySmurf1002

raisinbman wrote:

So did we ever decide how to spec SparklyVampKiller properly? I just managed to sneak to #2 of Black Vortex(somehow?) but My SparklyVampKiller is already 5/5/3.

In my experience, at 3 , it doesn't work enough to do properly. Sometimes Nananananananana…Tatman! is there, but I have a feeling more strike tiles won't be a bad thing even if I max out all the red on board, hypothetically. 5 seems extremely necessary and 5 is nice, but really only maximally used on goons(and countering goons isn't a big deal).

Should I use the I earned to turn him 4/5/4(and eventually 3/5/5)?

At 3/5/5 he's devastating, especially boosted. Doing upwards of 5k damage per turn even without Falcon around. The Black is nice but it's effective enough at 3.

Quebbster

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

At 3/5/5 he's devastating, especially boosted. Doing upwards of 5k damage per turn even without Falcon around. The Black is nice but it's effective enough at 3.

Seconded. I have no plans to abandon my 3/5/5 build, it's wonderful.

Salgy

Quebbster wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

At 3/5/5 he's devastating, especially boosted. Doing upwards of 5k damage per turn even without Falcon around. The Black is nice but it's effective enough at 3.

Seconded. I have no plans to abandon my 3/5/5 build, it's wonderful.

Thirded - I have 2 level 166 blades at 3/5/5 - no plans to respec either one... As others have mentioned, after 2-3 turns with 5 black, you are tapping a dry well... On the other hand, with 5 pink you are just pounding the opposition with strike tiles

PuceMoose

Expanding on one of the suggestions in the original post, I think it would be great if something like this happened:

Nightstalker - Black 8
Blade mercilessly makes a precision slash with his sword, dealing a crippling blow to his enemy. Deals 257 damage to the target, and then creates a Green Countdown tile that activates every turn, draining 1 AP from the enemy's strongest color. (The drain acts as a Steal) When the countdown activates, if the enemy has 0 AP in the chosen strongest color, Blade succumbs to his bloodlust. He bites the targeted enemy, dealing 20 damage for each friendly red strike tile on the board and true heals for the same amount.

Level 2: Deals 344 damage to the target Level 3: 344 damage and CD drains two AP strongest color Level 4: 427 damage Level 5: 591 damage, drains 3 ap

Max Level: 1877 damage, drains 3AP. Drains 83 per friendly red strike tile if 0 enemy AP in the strongest color exists.

dider152

I may be unpopular here, but I think adding another property to the power would make it OP. Yea, it's irritating when you reach the bottom of that AP and get nothing, but then draining 1 AP from another color would still be OP. Especially since the thing might not be easily matchable. If the power just drained AP without dealing damage, I would agree. What makes it 5 worthy, in my opinion, and a glorious power, is the large amount of damage it does in later levels. In the previous PvE, the buffed Blade was just dealing 4K damage left and right. And with his penchant for creating attack tiles, I was able to whittle down most enemies with ease. In any case, I love the power, and still plan to 5 max it.

KrazyKeylime

maybe have it self destruct doing the original damage once it can't drain ap

Unknown

Puce Moose wrote:

Expanding on one of the suggestions in the original post, I think it would be great if something like this happened:

Nightstalker - Black 8
Blade mercilessly makes a precision slash with his sword, dealing a crippling blow to his enemy. Deals 257 damage to the target, and then creates a Green Countdown tile that activates every turn, draining 1 AP from the enemy's strongest color. (The drain acts as a Steal) When the countdown activates, if the enemy has 0 AP in the chosen strongest color, Blade succumbs to his bloodlust. He bites the targeted enemy, dealing 20 damage for each friendly red strike tile on the board and true heals for the same amount.

Level 2: Deals 344 damage to the target Level 3: 344 damage and CD drains two AP strongest color Level 4: 427 damage Level 5: 591 damage, drains 3 ap

Max Level: 1877 damage, drains 3AP. Drains 83 per friendly red strike tile if 0 enemy AP in the strongest color exists.

The ability description is decidedly out of character for Blade. He wishes not to ingest blood like a common vampire but relies on medicine to temper his cravings.