'Marvel Puzzle Quest' 1-Year Anniversary Celebration!

Unknown

arktos1971 wrote:

The problem with MPQ is that it is "Free to Play", but the company developing it needs money to sustain the development.

MPQ must cost WAY MORE than Candy Crush to develop. The game experience is FAR richer than Candy Crush.

Several questions here : Some seem to complain that only the guys who pay have access to the best rewards.

Do you think it would be fair if F2P and P2W could get the same rewards in the end ? F2P with small rosters have easier scaling in PvE and can already get better rewards than big rosters.
If F2P and P2W could get the same rewards, there would be no need to pay, hence D3P would get no money, and the game would die.

Why do you not spend a few bucks instead of complaining you can't play the way you would like to ?

OK, the game is not worth the tons of money it can require to develop a full roster, but dropping a few bucks here and there (i.e. for roster slots) never killed a budget.

Reading continuous complaints from guys who never spend a dime is draining and extremely boring...

I am not sure if you are actually trying to make a point or you just wanted to counter my argument so bad. Clearly you haven't read my post. Maybe your post is not about me because you make no references, but it is pretty much a counter to what i said.

I find all your argument invalid if it is intended as a counter argument to mine for the only reason that I did not generalize what i said. Whatever I said was about the anniversary events only. I did not say I want everyone to be equal all the time. Since I find it redundant to re-type my previous post, I would suggest that you read and compensate information before you post something to counter it.

Unless you are making a general statement that has nothing to do with my post above you. If that is the case just ignore this post then.

Unknown

It was not intended to counter your post. Otherwise I would have quoted it.

It's just we hear the same thing over and over again. :

- I was not in the Top 10/20/50/100 therefore I did not get the covers,
- Only the P2W get the rewards,
- Rubberbanding this, rubberbanding that,
- The biggest players have no life, I want a life and want a big roster

So there are either 3 solutions (you can choose one or several) :

- play better,
- play more,
- pay more

Otherwise, try Candy Crush.

Unknown

Okin107 wrote:

If I had the time, money and roster to reach 1k points per event do you think I would need an anniversary event? Maybe just to break my boredom but I wouldn't care much. The people that post here are most commonly 2*-3* transitions. So instead of focusing a bit more in how to help the low level and middle layer player base, they go ahead and make yet another event that is for the top of the top (Which translates to paying money, because there is no way to be #1 in PVP without paying or having a huge stock of HP).

I don't want to throw the conspiracy theory about how D3 does everything about money. Even if they do it is their business model and we have lived through it for a year now. But an excitement coming from them (Posts of Ice and Hi-Fi yelling "RAWRRRR!") was overestimated and created fake expectations up to a point. They did deliver the stuff that where mentioned in the posts, but they made it look that there was more to it.

Bottom line, I think they should have catered a bit more to the low and middle layer. The top layers has good enough rewards, but being that we are "celebrating", we should all feel a part of that celebration (Why not even feel equal with each other since it is supposed to be a party day, week or weekend).

Let's go and answer this one :

Okin107 wrote:

If I had the time, money and roster to reach 1k points per event do you think I would need an anniversary event?

Definitely yes. I have the 3 of them, and currently enjoying the Anniversary week hysterically.

Okin107 wrote:

The people that post here are most commonly 2*-3* transitions. So instead of focusing a bit more in how to help the low level and middle layer player base, they go ahead and make yet another event that is for the top of the top (Which translates to paying money, because there is no way to be #1 in PVP without paying or having a huge stock of HP).

Well, the top of the top is most of the time the veterans (playing for close to a year), or pay to win / no life players.

These players :

- Finance the game for players who don't want to pay,
- Provide players with big points in PvP

Don't they deserve to be thanked once a year ? The answer is yes.

Okin107 wrote:

But an excitement coming from them (Posts of Ice and Hi-Fi yelling "RAWRRRR!") was overestimated and created fake expectations up to a point. They did deliver the stuff that where mentioned in the posts, but they made it look that there was more to it.

It was not, from my point of view. There could have been more, but in the end, it was not so bad. And it's not finished.

Okin107 wrote:

Bottom line, I think they should have catered a bit more to the low and middle layer.

Most probably. I've pointed out several times that newcomers must have hard times trying to build their rosters now (even worse with the **** 10/42 packs they sell).

As a conclusion I would say : Do you like MPQ enough to spend some money in it ? If the answer is yes, go ahead, you will enjoy it more. If the answer is no, you should try to find another game you like as much or more which does not require to pay to win. I'm sure there are, but I'm not playing them.

Unknown

arktos1971 wrote:

Okin107 wrote:

If I had the time, money and roster to reach 1k points per event do you think I would need an anniversary event?

Definitely yes. I have the 3 of them, and currently enjoying the Anniversary week hysterically.

[/quote]

And that is what I said but you did not copy all my post. I said that It will break your boredom but it is not something that will rock your world.

arktos1971 wrote:

Okin107 wrote:

The people that post here are most commonly 2*-3* transitions. So instead of focusing a bit more in how to help the low level and middle layer player base, they go ahead and make yet another event that is for the top of the top (Which translates to paying money, because there is no way to be #1 in PVP without paying or having a huge stock of HP).

Well, the top of the top is most of the time the veterans (playing for close to a year), or pay to win / no life players.

These players :

- Finance the game for players who don't want to pay,
- Provide players with big points in PvP

Don't they deserve to be thanked once a year ? The answer is yes.

While I am not saying that veterans should not get rewards, I tried to emphasize the facts that middle layer players need to have a chance at some things as well. Isn't this the reason to have an anniversary? So that everyone gets equal chances to get stuff because we are celebrating? Maybe I am wrong, but this was what I was hoping for.

They could still have rewards for the days played in the game. Like a rank system where you rank according to your days played and you get rewards based on them. That way everyone gets something extra, opposed to a token that in most cases was 250 ISO, which personally is not such a big gift. A true gift would be a 10-pack or the Trex covers be made permanent instead of temporary (Not sure about this though).

arktos1971 wrote:

Okin107 wrote:

But an excitement coming from them (Posts of Ice and Hi-Fi yelling "RAWRRRR!") was overestimated and created fake expectations up to a point. They did deliver the stuff that where mentioned in the posts, but they made it look that there was more to it.

It was not, from my point of view. There could have been more, but in the end, it was not so bad. And it's not finished.

As I enjoyed the first PVE and it actually felt as an Anniversary Event, the second one is just another of the same old same old. Of course, I am waiting for the final PVE to see what happens, but still, it is really disappointing to have a Heroic as a festive event and have the most inefficient character combos in it. The choices seem poor to me and the rewards sloppy in this PVE being it is supposed to be "something more than usual".

arktos1971 wrote:

Okin107 wrote:

Bottom line, I think they should have catered a bit more to the low and middle layer.

Most probably. I've pointed out several times that newcomers must have hard times trying to build their rosters now (even worse with the **** 10/42 packs they sell).

As a conclusion I would say : Do you like MPQ enough to spend some money in it ? If the answer is yes, go ahead, you will enjoy it more. If the answer is no, you should try to find another game you like as much or more which does not require to pay to win. I'm sure there are, but I'm not playing them.

It is not all about spending money you know. There are many things that a game can win from even if you are not donating. Facebook marketing is one of them. You are giving them free advertising and they provide you backup for your game. Don't worry, even if we all stop paying money in this game, there are many mechanisms to break even.

On the other hand, it is not mandatory for me to pay for this game if I enjoy it. Since when is my enjoyment equal to me paying money for something? I would pay if I felt like it. But seriously, the more you pay the more you need to pay after that (Roster slots for example). But this is all straight forward and there are no hidden tricks to steal your money. So they make clear what you are buying and they do not deceive you into it (I thank them for this).

However, being that the game is called F2P, it means that we are not obliged to pay money. Even if this is my favorite game in the whole world I am not obliged to pay anything if I don't want to. The argument of "go play another game/quit the game" has been heard so many times and I don't think is a valid one. Both F2P and P2W players should be heard. Don't tell me to go away because I am not willing to pay in an F2P game. And if you are so P2W then fine by me, but that should not (in theory) prioritize you over me for the rewards in a festive event such as this.

Unknown

Okin107 wrote:

And that is what I said but you did not copy all my post. I said that It will break your boredom but it is not something that will rock your world.

I did not quote about boredom, because I do not play MPQ because I am bored in my life.

Okin107 wrote:

As I enjoyed the first PVE and it actually felt as an Anniversary Event, the second one is just another of the same old same old. Of course, I am waiting for the final PVE to see what happens, but still, it is really disappointing to have a Heroic as a festive event and have the most inefficient character combos in it. The choices seem poor to me and the rewards sloppy in this PVE being it is supposed to be "something more than usual".

Agreed. An anniversary Gauntlet with not so bad Scaling would have been better.

Okin107 wrote:

It is not all about spending money you know. There are many things that a game can win from even if you are not donating. Facebook marketing is one of them. You are giving them free advertising and they provide you backup for your game. Don't worry, even if we all stop paying money in this game, there are many mechanisms to break even.

On the other hand, it is not mandatory for me to pay for this game if I enjoy it. Since when is my enjoyment equal to me paying money for something? I would pay if I felt like it. But seriously, the more you pay the more you need to pay after that (Roster slots for example). But this is all straight forward and there are no hidden tricks to steal your money. So they make clear what you are buying and they do not deceive you into it (I thank them for this).

However, being that the game is called F2P, it means that we are not obliged to pay money. Even if this is my favorite game in the whole world I am not obliged to pay anything if I don't want to. The argument of "go play another game/quit the game" has been heard so many times and I don't think is a valid one. Both F2P and P2W players should be heard. Don't tell me to go away because I am not willing to pay in an F2P game. And if you are so P2W then fine by me, but that should not (in theory) prioritize you over me for the rewards in a festive event such as this.

Thing is my "YOU" was not meant to target you (to quit the game if you don't like it). This is the problem with English not making the distinction between you personal, you plural and you meaning "one".

I do not agree with what you say about financing the game. There is no other way (currently) to sustain this game other than paying for it. Advertising would not work. MPQ is not linked to a Toy Company selling merchandising products. We could think MPQ could be just a way of advertising Marvel Toys, but it's not.

This game is wrongly called F2P.

There would be no reason why the game experience be the same whether you are F2P or P2W, otherwise people would not pay.

It's D3P's choice to make MPQ a "Free to Play at First" game and not "subscription" based. Many here think it is wrong, but nothing has changed so far.

As I said, MPQ is too expensive. If Iso/HP/whatever was less expensive, people would make maybe small purchases, but they would be numerous.

D3P decided to be distributed through Steam/Apple/Google platforms. Therefore WE pay 30 % of the total turnover to those companies. Then we pay Disney for the Marvel licensing (which is fine). So in the end, D3P does not get not so much NET income.

Nothing in this world is for free, and the Freemium business model is probably the worst thing that could happen to the gaming industry. Many companies quickly collapsed or downfell (ie Zynga). Many F2P games are junk (that's one of the reasons why we do not quit MPQ)

However, MPQ is quite young, can be improved and is doing quite well apparently when it comes to turnover.

Hailmary will share his point of view soon about this, he's F2P.

Unknown

Why invest more money in something that will yield very little reward? I don't find spending money for roster slots any more fun or rewarding and it will likely NOT make that much of a difference in my ability to progress or make the game more fun. I spent some money 9 months ago and will never spend another dime on this game again since MPQ demands that you devote so much of your time (and eventually more $$$) to feel like you are succeeding.

Unknown

MikeHock wrote:

Why invest more money in something that will yield very little reward? I don't find spending money for roster slots any more fun or rewarding and it will likely NOT make that much of a difference in my ability to progress or make the game more fun. I spent some money 9 months ago and will never spend another dime on this game again since MPQ demands that you devote so much of your time (and eventually more $$$) to feel like you are succeeding.

To each his own. I enjoy the way I currently play the game, and I know I get bored/bothered if I have to play the same guys over and over again. So I would not like to have a small roster.

Unknown

IMHO I would prefer MPQ to be subscription based. However, if the game was as it is now and you had to pay a fee to play, then no thanks. If we make a game based on subscriptions then you have to take it to the next level. By you I mean D3 in this case. So that is out of the question since this game offers nothing close to what it needs to in order to ask for money.

It does have a fun part into it and that is the Marvel Heroes. That is the key factor that keeps this game alive. Marvel has so much influence in the world today (Along with DC) because people just love superheroes. They want them in movies, games and everything they can have them in. That is the strongest point of this game and this is why they try to squeeze every penny from it. People will stick around (Including me) no matter how bad the game gets because I just love superheroes and I love to collect comics.

However, despite that, people will not spend money same as they did before if they feel like they are not getting value from it. The decision to make the game F2P is a good one because everyone can try you game. There is sustainable F2P (I am completely F2P myself) and I am more than grateful about it. Sincerely, every other similar game i got into "forced" you to pay money if you wanted to progress. At least here there is significant progress even if you are F2P, so I am glad about that.

What I don't agree with is the fact that we pay for this game to stay alive. Nope! People will pay money if they like the game and want to support it. Yes! But no one is obliged to pay for this if they don't want to. I personally don't care if they can't afford themselves at some point. It was their decision to be F2P and they should support it. Any other money coming in is something extra (even though in this case it's a big one).

The very fact that they get so much extra money in an F2P game should be enough for them to sit down and return the favor by adding adequate material in it.

Unknown

I agree for the most part.

One thing I agree 50/50 is that because it is a Marvel Heroes based game it is appealing. True for the Heroes and Marvel World. Not true for the game mecanics. MPQ is far better than others.

Have you tried other Marvel Heroes games ?

I tried when I was sick of MPQ (you know, the rage quit drama ?), and NONE appealed to me. They were just BAD.

Unknown

MikeHock wrote:

Why invest more money in something that will yield very little reward? I don't find spending money for roster slots any more fun or rewarding and it will likely NOT make that much of a difference in my ability to progress or make the game more fun. I spent some money 9 months ago and will never spend another dime on this game again since MPQ demands that you devote so much of your time (and eventually more $$$) to feel like you are succeeding.

Just time from me. But lots of it - almost 900 hours. Haven't dropped a dime in yet, and don't intend to.

Okin107 wrote:

IMHO I would prefer MPQ to be subscription based. However, if the game was as it is now and you had to pay a fee to play, then no thanks. If we make a game based on subscriptions then you have to take it to the next level. By you I mean D3 in this case. So that is out of the question since this game offers nothing close to what it needs to in order to ask for money.

I hope MPQ becomes subscription based as well. That way I could finally quit it and never look back.

Unknown

kalirion wrote:

I hope MPQ becomes subscription based as well. That way I could finally quit it and never look back.

It will not make any difference for them if you quit.

_RiO_

arktos1971 wrote:

Have you tried other Marvel Heroes games ?

Have you tried the actual Marvel Heroes game?

A nice example of a free-to-play game that:

• puts out a ton more new content more regularly than MPQ
• listens to and engages its playerbase, an area where Demiurge has a lot left to learn
• rakes in enough dough to keep a full development staff full-time employed and keep an MMO-capacity infrastructure up and running (in contrast to Demiurge's **** servers...)
• does not penny-pinch players for roster building. (Entire new characters with full complement of 20+ skills/abilities and multiple new builds to play for 10 USD?)
• does not punish players for playing well, like MPQ does with out-of-whack PvE scaling and PvP MMR
• let's players decide when and how long they want to play
• offered actual kick-**** anniversary gifts with their 1 year anniversary to everyone (and even extended the period to obtain those gifts for newly joining players...)
• runs special events with massive loot drop boosts and free giveaways every week. Always something nice to grab.

Also; stop white-knighting Demiurge/D3P.
The fact that their monetization model is broken to the point that making the game more accommodating would kill their profit, does not excuse them from critique. (The exact opposite, actually...)

itstime1234

arktos1971 wrote:

kalirion wrote:

I hope MPQ becomes subscription based as well. That way I could finally quit it and never look back.

It will not make any difference for them if you quit.

And you know this how all seeing one. People quitting will def hurt the game whether or not they spend money on it. The reason is F2P is that you want a significant player base.

I guess you would also be the guy who would tell Ghandi that him going on a hunger strike would make no difference to the British rule.

Unknown

arktos1971 wrote:

kalirion wrote:

I hope MPQ becomes subscription based as well. That way I could finally quit it and never look back.

It will not make any difference for them if you quit.

Yes, but it will make a difference for me. And a damn good one at that, which is why I hope against hope that this will happen.

HailMary

Brace yourselves. I'm gonna largely agree with arktos here.

I've said it before: people who are steadfastly F2P like Okin and I shouldn't matter to D3. We are not their target market. A game needs to make money to survive, and MPQ doesn't have any in-game advertising. The fact that there are a number of F2P heavyweights in the game is remarkable in and of itself, and I thank the whales for helping to keep the servers going for us absolute F2Pers.

On a broader note: forumites in general do not represent MPQ's core consumer base very well. Seemingly everyone here is strongly opposed to buying non-Anniversary cover packs due to **** odds, but such cover packs are MPQ's main source of revenue. BoP and CA, two of the most reviled PVPs on the forum, won the FB polls. Those facts should tell you something about the naivete of forumites raging about how D3 should cater entirely to their needs simply because they're being loud with their complaints, and especially those declaring that D3 is clearly doing things for obvious dastardly reasons (e.g. health pack sales) because they feel it in their bones.

That said, I do agree with Okin in that the Anniversary should indeed have something for everyone -- not just the top end, because the top end gets to melt faces the rest of the time. I think it does have something for everyone, though, and I like it so far (even though I don't like CA). Running Gauntlet instead of a Heroic PVE would've been much more well-received on the forums, and a high-level node with a one-time Dino cover reward would've been awesome, but eh, no biggie. The upcoming GT LRs (rewarding Anniversary tokens) should be interesting.

Okin107 wrote:

The argument of "go play another game/quit the game" has been heard so many times and I don't think is a valid one. Both F2P and P2W players should be heard. Don't tell me to go away because I am not willing to pay in an F2P game. And if you are so P2W then fine by me, but that should not (in theory) prioritize you over me for the rewards in a festive event such as this.

From where I stand, he's not telling you to go away if you don't pay. He's saying if you really don't enjoy the game anymore, there's no reason to continue playing. But, if you do still enjoy it, and are just frustrated at your lack of progress, paying a bit of money for certain things (e.g. roster slots, a couple of top-end covers in later stages, some judicious shielding) generally accelerates smart play. What he says is true. Also, as a fellow F2P player, I can say with a good degree of certainty that the festivities don't specifically prioritize paying players over F2P players. It does reward more investment into the game (time/money/effort), but less so than the game usually does.

Personally, I don't willingly continue doing stuff in my free time if it gives me an aneurysm. If the game truly is no longer fun for you when taken as a whole, stop playing it. If the game is still fun on the whole (which should hold true for every active player here), make specific criticisms (many are valid, many aren't). The people throwing up raging tempests about how the devs should just go eat s--- because they obviously don't care about players are: 1. grandstanding for funsies, and/or 2. lying to themselves. The fact that some believe accusations of "white-knighting" or shilling are meaningful illustrates the absurd theatricality of this bizarre, pitched battle they've conjured in their minds.

itstime1234

HailMary wrote:

Brace yourselves. I'm gonna largely agree with arktos here.

I've said it before: people who are steadfastly F2P like Okin and I shouldn't matter to D3. We are not their target market. A game needs to make money to survive, and MPQ doesn't have any in-game advertising. The fact that there are a number of F2P heavyweights in the game is remarkable in and of itself, and I thank the whales for helping to keep the servers going for us absolute F2Pers.

On a broader note: forumites in general do not represent MPQ's core consumer base very well. Seemingly everyone here is strongly opposed to buying non-Anniversary cover packs due to **** odds, but such cover packs are MPQ's main source of revenue. BoP and CA, two of the most reviled PVPs on the forum, won the FB polls. Those facts should tell you something about the naivete of forumites raging about how D3 should cater entirely to their needs simply because they're being loud with their complaints, and especially those declaring that D3 is clearly doing things for obvious dastardly reasons (e.g. health pack sales) because they feel it in their bones.

That said, I do agree with Okin in that the Anniversary should indeed have something for everyone -- not just the top end, because the top end gets to melt faces the rest of the time. I think it does have something for everyone, though, and I like it so far (even though I don't like CA). Running Gauntlet instead of a Heroic PVE would've been much more well-received on the forums, and a high-level node with a one-time Dino cover reward would've been awesome, but eh, no biggie. The upcoming GT LRs (rewarding Anniversary tokens) should be interesting.

Okin107 wrote:

The argument of "go play another game/quit the game" has been heard so many times and I don't think is a valid one. Both F2P and P2W players should be heard. Don't tell me to go away because I am not willing to pay in an F2P game. And if you are so P2W then fine by me, but that should not (in theory) prioritize you over me for the rewards in a festive event such as this.

From where I stand, he's not telling you to go away if you don't pay. He's saying if you really don't enjoy the game anymore, there's no reason to continue playing. But, if you do still enjoy it, and are just frustrated at your lack of progress, paying a bit of money for certain things (e.g. roster slots, a couple of top-end covers in later stages, some judicious shielding) generally accelerates smart play. What he says is true. Also, as a fellow F2P player, I can say with a good degree of certainty that the festivities don't specifically prioritize paying players over F2P players. It does reward more investment into the game (time/money/effort), but less so than the game usually does.

Personally, I don't willingly continue doing stuff in my free time if it gives me an aneurysm. If the game truly is no longer fun for you when taken as a whole, stop playing it. If the game is still fun on the whole (which should hold true for every active player here), make specific criticisms (many are valid, many aren't). The people throwing up raging tempests about how the devs should just go eat s--- because they obviously don't care about players are: 1. grandstanding for funsies, and/or 2. lying to themselves. The fact that some believe accusations of "white-knighting" or shilling are meaningful illustrates the absurd theatricality of this bizarre, pitched battle they've conjured in their minds.

Normally I tend to understand where you are coming from but really? In the information age, you are really going to go and shovel this old school thinking that one person has no effect. Do you go tell your friends and family to not vote since obv one vote will have no impact on the election outcome. How many corporations changed policies due to one persons voice, heck I will even point to something closer to home, the one player complained about Colossus' symbol and it was changed.

To say the ppl on the forum are atypical is also a farce, do you see everyone saying I have 10 maxed characters or I have every 3* cover, no you get a very good mix of people at various stages, some starting to be come 2* some becoming 3*s, some trying to reach new highs. So I have a tough time understanding where you think that this forum is nowhere the same as the general population. This isn't some underground forum for pete sake.

Unknown

HailMary wrote:

Brace yourselves. I'm gonna largely agree with arktos here.

I've said it before: people who are steadfastly F2P like Okin and I shouldn't matter to D3. We are not their target market. A game needs to make money to survive, and MPQ doesn't have any in-game advertising. The fact that there are a number of F2P heavyweights in the game is remarkable in and of itself, and I thank the whales for helping to keep the servers going for us absolute F2Pers.

On a broader note: forumites in general do not represent MPQ's core consumer base very well. Seemingly everyone here is strongly opposed to buying non-Anniversary cover packs due to **** odds, but such cover packs are MPQ's main source of revenue. BoP and CA, two of the most reviled PVPs on the forum, won the FB polls. Those facts should tell you something about the naivete of forumites raging about how D3 should cater entirely to their needs simply because they're being loud with their complaints, and especially those declaring that D3 is clearly doing things for obvious dastardly reasons (e.g. health pack sales) because they feel it in their bones.

That said, I do agree with Okin in that the Anniversary should indeed have something for everyone -- not just the top end, because the top end gets to melt faces the rest of the time. I think it does have something for everyone, though, and I like it so far (even though I don't like CA). Running Gauntlet instead of a Heroic PVE would've been much more well-received on the forums, and a high-level node with a one-time Dino cover reward would've been awesome, but eh, no biggie. The upcoming GT LRs (rewarding Anniversary tokens) should be interesting.

Okin107 wrote:

The argument of "go play another game/quit the game" has been heard so many times and I don't think is a valid one. Both F2P and P2W players should be heard. Don't tell me to go away because I am not willing to pay in an F2P game. And if you are so P2W then fine by me, but that should not (in theory) prioritize you over me for the rewards in a festive event such as this.

From where I stand, he's not telling you to go away if you don't pay. He's saying if you really don't enjoy the game anymore, there's no reason to continue playing. But, if you do still enjoy it, and are just frustrated at your lack of progress, paying a bit of money for certain things (e.g. roster slots, a couple of top-end covers in later stages, some judicious shielding) generally accelerates smart play. What he says is true. Also, as a fellow F2P player, I can say with a good degree of certainty that the festivities don't specifically prioritize paying players over F2P players. It does reward more investment into the game (time/money/effort), but less so than the game usually does.

Personally, I don't willingly continue doing stuff in my free time if it gives me an aneurysm. If the game truly is no longer fun for you when taken as a whole, stop playing it. If the game is still fun on the whole (which should hold true for every active player here), make specific criticisms (many are valid, many aren't). The people throwing up raging tempests about how the devs should just go eat s--- because they obviously don't care about players are: 1. grandstanding for funsies, and/or 2. lying to themselves. The fact that some believe accusations of "white-knighting" or shilling are meaningful illustrates the absurd theatricality of this bizarre, pitched battle they've conjured in their minds.

Every person who uses their game should matter, regardless of money spent.

Of course D3 has to make a profit to stay in business & target who they need to, but just because someone chooses not to spend money shouldn't mean that we don't matter.

HailMary

itstime1234 wrote:

Normally I tend to understand where you are coming from but really? In the information age, you are really going to go and shovel this old school thinking that one person has no effect.

I'm not talking about whether one person has any effect. I'm saying that emptily speculative forumite anger shouldn't have an effect on the game if the devs are at all sensible. On the other hand, specific criticisms that are supported by complaints from other channels and in-game metrics? They should definitely listen to those (and they seem to do at least that, if not more, albeit rather slowly). General tips that don't depend on glibly assuming anything about how players at large obviously must rationally behave? They should definitely listen to those.

As a F2P player, I frankly don't understand why some F2P players believe MPQ is somehow diabolically P2W. MPQ is shockingly F2P-friendly. Having played a bit of Brave Frontier, and having talked to people who've played other F2P games, MPQ seems pretty darn generous with its F2P model. When I first picked up MPQ, I expected to play for a week or two, then hit a reinforced-concrete paywall and move on. For all intents and purposes, I am deadweight for MPQ. I consume MPQ server cycles without paying a dime. The fact that MPQ allows that is remarkable to me.

itstime1234 wrote:

Do you go tell your friends and family to not vote since obv one vote will have no impact on the election outcome. How many corporations changed policies due to one persons voice, heck I will even point to something closer to home, the one player complained about Colossus' symbol and it was changed.

That symbol change had no gameplay downside, and D3 has a penchant for proactively neutering possibly offensive content in its games (note their manual and automatic offensive-IGN handling). There are many great (and sometimes ragey) forum criticisms about legitimate issues, like **** EU ending times (and no, I'm EST, so I'm not hurt by the status quo). However, just because some forum rage is directed at actual issues doesn't mean forum rage itself gives credibility to an issue.

itstime1234 wrote:

To say the ppl on the forum are atypical is also a farce, do you see everyone saying I have 10 maxed characters or I have every 3* cover, no you get a very good mix of people at various stages, some starting to be come 2* some becoming 3*s, some trying to reach new highs. So I have a tough time understanding where you think that this forum is nowhere the same as the general population. This isn't some underground forum for pete sake.

Several people have already noted an example very close to home: the earlier discussion about how cover packs are obviously crazy-bad purchases. Forumites (at least vocal forumites) generally agree that current non-Anniversary cover packs are monumentally ****. There's general forum consensus that people would be crazy to buy them (which I agree with). However, numerically, they generate a significant portion of MPQ's revenue. The playerbase in general buys loads of them. I'm not sure how that example can get any clearer.

Also, the "it's all about health-pack/shield purchases!" declaration gets tossed about every time any major change is discussed. The actual numbers have never supported the idea, but that doesn't stop it from being the Staples "Easy" button of forum rage.

Ice posted a list of in-game stats several months ago. IIRC, one of those was that the most frequently purchased cover was for IM35. The most frequently used 2* character was Captain America. By forum logic (which I again agree with), this is bats--- insane. But, it's what the playerbase at large actually did.

As such, we forumites live in our own little bubble. I like this bubble, but it's very much a bubble. We sometimes have a lot of great ideas (e.g. TUP delete button was a no-brainer), but let's not breezily pretend that our perspective (much less any one forumite's rage trigger) is shared by MPQ's general consumer base, or equate "I don't like this part of the game" with "this broken thing obviously means the game is broken and stuff sucks."

_RiO_

HailMary wrote:

I've said it before: people who are steadfastly F2P like Okin and I shouldn't matter to D3. We are not their target market. A game needs to make money to survive, and MPQ doesn't have any in-game advertising. The fact that there are a number of F2P heavyweights in the game is remarkable in and of itself, and I thank the whales for helping to keep the servers going for us absolute F2Pers.

People pay for advantage or expedience over other players. They gauge their success against those other players. Without F2P to make up the bottoms of the rankings (and having the odd one out as a hardcore F2P dominating veteran) there are no 'fall guys' for the paying players. Without F2P to supply underpowered, undercovered, underleveled rosters, those that purchase covers and ISO for a quick growth will see it have substantially reduced overall effect when pitted against only other paying players.

The game needs a healthy balance of both. Just as it cannot survive without paying players, it also cannot sustain itself only on the subset of paying players. To think otherwise is folly.

itstime1234

HailMary wrote:

itstime1234 wrote:

Normally I tend to understand where you are coming from but really? In the information age, you are really going to go and shovel this old school thinking that one person has no effect.

I'm not talking about whether one person has any effect. I'm saying that emptily speculative forumite anger shouldn't have an effect on the game if the devs are at all sensible. On the other hand, specific criticisms that are supported by complaints from other channels and in-game metrics? They should definitely listen to those (and they seem to do at least that, if not more, albeit rather slowly). General tips that don't depend on glibly assuming anything about how players at large obviously must rationally behave? They should definitely listen to those.

As a F2P player, I frankly don't understand why some F2P players believe MPQ is somehow diabolically P2W. MPQ is shockingly F2P-friendly. Having played a bit of Brave Frontier, and having talked to people who've played other F2P games, MPQ seems pretty darn generous with its F2P model. When I first picked up MPQ, I expected to play for a week or two, then hit a reinforced-concrete paywall and move on. For all intents and purposes, I am deadweight for MPQ. I consume MPQ server cycles without paying a dime. The fact that MPQ allows that is remarkable to me.

itstime1234 wrote:

Do you go tell your friends and family to not vote since obv one vote will have no impact on the election outcome. How many corporations changed policies due to one persons voice, heck I will even point to something closer to home, the one player complained about Colossus' symbol and it was changed.

That symbol change had no gameplay downside, and D3 has a penchant for proactively neutering possibly offensive content in its games (note their manual and automatic offensive-IGN handling). There are many great (and sometimes ragey) forum criticisms about legitimate issues, like **** EU ending times (and no, I'm EST, so I'm not hurt by the status quo). However, just because some forum rage is directed at actual issues doesn't mean forum rage itself gives credibility to an issue.

itstime1234 wrote:

To say the ppl on the forum are atypical is also a farce, do you see everyone saying I have 10 maxed characters or I have every 3* cover, no you get a very good mix of people at various stages, some starting to be come 2* some becoming 3*s, some trying to reach new highs. So I have a tough time understanding where you think that this forum is nowhere the same as the general population. This isn't some underground forum for pete sake.

Several people have already noted an example very close to home: the earlier discussion about how cover packs are obviously crazy-bad purchases. Forumites (at least vocal forumites) generally agree that current non-Anniversary cover packs are monumentally ****. There's general forum consensus that people would be crazy to buy them (which I agree with). However, numerically, they generate a significant portion of MPQ's revenue. The playerbase in general buys loads of them. I'm not sure how that example can get any clearer.

Also, the "it's all about health-pack/shield purchases!" declaration gets tossed about every time any major change is discussed. The actual numbers have never supported the idea, but that doesn't stop it from being the Staples "Easy" button of forum rage.

Ice posted a list of in-game stats several months ago. IIRC, one of those was that the most frequently purchased cover was for IM35. The most frequently used 2* character was Captain America. By forum logic (which I again agree with), this is bats--- insane. But, it's what the playerbase at large actually did.

As such, we forumites live in our own little bubble. I like this bubble, but it's very much a bubble. We sometimes have a lot of great ideas (e.g. TUP delete button was a no-brainer), but let's not breezily pretend that our perspective (much less any one forumite's rage trigger) is shared by MPQ's general consumer base, or equate "I don't like this part of the game" with "this broken thing obviously means the game is broken and stuff sucks."

So now your position is that the individual has rage trigger as oppose to a good point. So if it was a good point, the devs would have taken it into consideration?

Now you are fundamentally stereotyping ppl on here saying they go overboard with comments like shield purchase etc etc. You want to comment on your own thoughts that's fine by me. You want to slurp everything D3 does go nuts, but I think its disrespectful and demeaning to downplay both an individuals complaint and disregard it as rage trigger. Just because you don't agree doesn't make them or their comments any less valuable to this forum.