The Gaunlet: Villains, Heroes, & Finale 20 - 23 Sep

Unknown

SirPhobos wrote:

I'm playing a game and having fun. Am I doing this wrong?

Yes. How dare you. How would you be able to brag just having fun.

Unknown

This event is in no way like any other PvE. Even just for progression rewards and peace out, normal PvE's have community scaling, making them difficult if near impossible for certain caliber of players. This event on the other hand is 3.5 days of "play when you want, we'll be here waiting". Nodes don't increase in difficulty.

As to your other point, PvE's with Alliance rewards can dictate player behavior in terms of peer pressure. After putting progression rewards squarely behind me I still play even if I am not interested in the 3* cover solely for my Alliance's benefit. It's not a compulsion, but a courtesy I extend my alliance mates to improve our ranking. With no ranking rewards this PvE is much less stressful. You don't have to clear every 2.5 hours, you don't have to grind the last hour of the event, and you don't have to worry about your point totals for the next 3 days. Just play when you play.

As far as D3's marketing dreams, good for them then. They gave us what we wanted. We are happy. What's hard to understand about that?

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

Most assuredly. Fun games are not hardcore.

@Phantron: Would you prefer an event where all nodes are the same regardless of your roster level? I personally would not enjoy an event that was a cakewalk for progression rewards. The calculation of scaling per player may be broken, but the application of it to this event is not. If the nodes were indeed universal, and yet beatable by players in 2* land then every 3* roster would walk all over them.

You could argue that a mode called Gauntlet should be power tiered, you stop where you can no longer progress due to your roster, but if that were the case, the rewards would need to be overhauled so each tier of player is getting the rewards that benefit them. C.Storm needs to be attainable by those 2* players.

The idea of the event is fine. I think the implementation is horrible and yes it's largely influenced by the fact that I'm in the section that is most affected by it because I have exceptionally high initial scaling compared to everyone else. If the reward everyone get is static then the challenge should be static too, not harder for the guy who did well in the past. If this makes it too hard for players with weaker roster they need to restructure the rewards. The Simulator Basic hard bracket is hard to do for any underdeveloped roster and it's worth roughly double the points, and I don't see anyone complaining about an obvious mechanism that rewards player strength. I'm fine if player strength is not rewarded, but currently as implemented, you're punished for doing exceptionally well by high initial scaling.

simonsez

scottee wrote:

In "EVERY OTHER PVE" you can't play through all the nodes in the first hour or two and get all the progression rewards.

That's pretty much what I did in Deadpool, since I wasn't grinding for top 2. And it didn't even take 2 hours. Granted, I had to wait a day, to take advantage of some rb... but I guess here's where the whole willpower thing comes into play again.

orionpeace

simonsez wrote:

orionpeace wrote:

So, anyone who likes the event is either an idiot or a fool.

I love how people insist on putting words in my mouth. Try this: for a company to be able to offer their customers less, and have it be nearly universally lauded, is a marketing dream-come-true.

No one seems to want to address my central point: that this event is the same as EVERY OTHER PvE, in that you can play casually, and get every progression reward. In other words, it offers no added value. If you like this event, what is stopping you from playing every PvE exactly like this, other than a compulsion to play that is apparently too difficult to control?

I wouldn't say I put words in your mouth so much as extrapolated your use of the word "hoodwink". It implies the use of deceit. Those who enjoy this event were fooled into believing this event was different. Ergo, they are fools or idiots for falling for the deceit when you seem to suggest that you see it all so clearly.

You see this event as the same as all others.

Let us list how this one is different:
1. No community scaling
2. No rubberband
3. No competition
4. Progression rewards ONLY
5. No node refresh - no need to play every 2hr 24min
6. No requirement to repeat nodes
7. No alliance rewards - or demands
8. Can be completed in hours - at your leisure
9. New play mode
10. Less overall stress to play according to a schedule

simonsez

Lerysh wrote:

As far as D3's marketing dreams, good for them then. They gave us what we wanted. We are happy. What's hard to understand about that?

Because getting less stuff for more effort and loving it, goes against human nature.

Unknown

scottee wrote:

simonsez wrote:

orionpeace wrote:

So, anyone who likes the event is either an idiot or a fool.

I love how people insist on putting words in my mouth. Try this: for a company to be able to offer their customers less, and have it be nearly universally lauded, is a marketing dream-come-true.

No one seems to want to address my central point: that this event is the same as EVERY OTHER PvE, in that you can play casually, and get every progression reward. In other words, it offers no added value. If you like this event, what is stopping you from playing every PvE exactly like this, other than a compulsion to play that is apparently too difficult to control?

In "EVERY OTHER PVE" you can't play through all the nodes in the first hour or two and get all the progression rewards. You have to wait until the end of the event. Here, time doesn't matter. You can do it at the beginning, middle, end, doesn't matter.

Exactly. The main issue with previous PVEs is that you must not, by any means, miss the last day or the last hours of the event. On the penalty of not placing well enough to get the featured character of the next event.

I believe this event right now is a test, and could very well be used to release new characters in fact.
The biggest progression could be 1 of the powers, and the other 2 powers could be prizes of the last (and very difficult) fights.

You see? You can still get the new character without been too grindy on the last day/hours, and the best of all, you can do whenever you can, fixing the events endtimes troubles for players on Europe, Asia, America etc...

Trisul

Phantron wrote:

The idea of the event is fine. I think the implementation is horrible and yes it's largely influenced by the fact that I'm in the section that is most affected by it because I have exceptionally high initial scaling compared to everyone else. If the reward everyone get is static then the challenge should be static too, not harder for the guy who did well in the past. If this makes it too hard for players with weaker roster they need to restructure the rewards. The Simulator Basic hard bracket is hard to do for any underdeveloped roster and it's worth roughly double the points, and I don't see anyone complaining about an obvious mechanism that rewards player strength. I'm fine if player strength is not rewarded, but currently as implemented, you're punished for doing exceptionally well by high initial scaling.

Just out of curiosity, how would you implement this event?

If it was truly fair, they would just provide you with a roster and not allow any of your characters so everyone's on an even playing field. But that's not as fun as playing a character you've invested time and iso into.

For the first event of this type, I'm fairly pleased with what they've done.

Bowgentle

Phantron wrote:

The idea of the event is fine. I think the implementation is horrible and yes it's largely influenced by the fact that I'm in the section that is most affected by it because I have exceptionally high initial scaling compared to everyone else. If the reward everyone get is static then the challenge should be static too, not harder for the guy who did well in the past. If this makes it too hard for players with weaker roster they need to restructure the rewards. The Simulator Basic hard bracket is hard to do for any underdeveloped roster and it's worth roughly double the points, and I don't see anyone complaining about an obvious mechanism that rewards player strength. I'm fine if player strength is not rewarded, but currently as implemented, you're punished for doing exceptionally well by high initial scaling.

So what level is your Ares and two empiricist node?

Mine is 160, and thanks to being in Europe I've managed only 31st and 35th in the last PVEs.

So I hope yours is at least 200 to back up your theory of having higher scaling than the rest of us due to being a PVE god.

simonsez

orionpeace wrote:

You see this event as the same as all others.

Let us list how this one is different:
1. No community scaling
2. No rubberband
3. No competition
4. Progression rewards ONLY
5. No node refresh - no need to play every 2hr 24min
6. No requirement to repeat nodes
7. No alliance rewards - or demands
8. Can be completed in hours - at your leisure
9. New play mode
10. Less overall stress to play according to a schedule

These are all underlying mechanics that absolutely would not affect anyone who merely wanted to play a PvE to get all the progression rewards. All you need to do is wait a day, hit each node once, and you get all the progression rewards. Community scaling isn't an issue, because it's still early in the event, and there's no grinding happening yet... node refresh is irrelevant, since you'd only be playing each node once... ditto "no repeat nodes"... you'd be done in hours at your leisure, same as this.. no stress, if you are able to refrain from partaking in the quest for high rank... no competition, since all you want is the progression...

So no, you haven't come close to convincing me this new mode is anything different other than it removes the temptation to engage in a competition that you really don't want to, but can't help getting caught up in.

Sandmaker

I'm with Phantron on this one. Why is there personal scaling for a format like this? The "scaling" should be static and increase constantly per node for everyone equally. You keep going until you hit your roster's limit. That way these events promote you to get a better roster, and level your character.

Currently this event has the opposite effect. You want to keep your roster as low as possible to cakewalk through the nodes. Very counter-intuitive game design.

CrookedKnight

simonsez wrote:

orionpeace wrote:

So, anyone who likes the event is either an idiot or a fool.

I love how people insist on putting words in my mouth. Try this: for a company to be able to offer their customers less, and have it be nearly universally lauded, is a marketing dream-come-true.

But you're assuming that what they're offering less of (3* covers) is the only thing we should care about. What if we like playing the match-three game for its own sake? Because there's a lot more of that in The Gauntlet than in any other PvE I can remember.

There are at least 40 distinct fights to win in this event, ranging from basic Dark Avengers slugouts to hero+feeder puzzle-ish arrangements and the big boss battle of Hood/Daken/Sentry. I can run through them at my leisure while still enjoying every possible encounter at every level of difficulty. It's a complete experience with no time constraints. I like that. Do I want every event to be an exact copy of this, including the reward arrangement? No thanks, my roster development would basically freeze. But as a rough draft of what we might get later it's incredibly promising, and as a change of pace it's long overdue.

Unknown

cg2912 wrote:

scottee wrote:

LOTS of people have been asking for true PVE without placements rewards.

They finally make it.

Other people complain that they want placement rewards.

because gaming community

"Other people"-- meaning ONE guy.

Nearly everyone I chat with who has been playing more than a month was asking for progression-only pve with no time constraints - i.e. time zone screw-overs.

This event is perfect - granted I'm beyond most of the awards but I like that I can do as much as I want, whenever I want, and I don't get screwed for when I do the exact same thing as the next guy. Perfect pve structure - Great Job Devs

GrumpySmurf1002

It's sort of fun reading the argument "if you don't like the way PvE exists, you don't have to play" as a counter to complaining about a game mode you're not compelled to play.

Unknown

After gauntlet heroes the gauntlet: finale opens up saw a 3 star gsbw and psylocke for rewards

Unknown

Trisul wrote:

Phantron wrote:

The idea of the event is fine. I think the implementation is horrible and yes it's largely influenced by the fact that I'm in the section that is most affected by it because I have exceptionally high initial scaling compared to everyone else. If the reward everyone get is static then the challenge should be static too, not harder for the guy who did well in the past. If this makes it too hard for players with weaker roster they need to restructure the rewards. The Simulator Basic hard bracket is hard to do for any underdeveloped roster and it's worth roughly double the points, and I don't see anyone complaining about an obvious mechanism that rewards player strength. I'm fine if player strength is not rewarded, but currently as implemented, you're punished for doing exceptionally well by high initial scaling.

Just out of curiosity, how would you implement this event?

If it was truly fair, they would just provide you with a roster and not allow any of your characters so everyone's on an even playing field. But that's not as fun as playing a character you've invested time and iso into.

For the first event of this type, I'm fairly pleased with what they've done.

Well for one I'd make initial scaling dependent on your roster strength and not past PvE performance. I don't know if this is indeed the case but the praise of this event defies historical trend, as in if everyone's seeing the same 150+ minimum nodes after the first intersection we should be seeing 'health pack conspiracy!!!' posts all over the place so I've to assume this is not the case.

For different roster strength I don't know how to make it fair, but I'll try to separate players into 3 large buckets that roughly correspond to 1*/2*/3*. I'm not too concerned if the event is too easy or too hard overall. I am concerned that this event seems to punish you for doing well in past PvE events. In any other PvE event the community scaling fixes any initial discrepency, as in when you see a node suddenly gone up by 50 levels after you wake up you can be pretty sure the community scaling will wipe out almost any initial unfairness on the levels, but there is no community scaling on this event.

Unknown

This is why we can't have nice things. We get a new pve format and people are complaining already. Seriously, cut it out before they take it away from us.

GrumpySmurf1002

Sandmaker wrote:

I'm with Phantron on this one. Why is there personal scaling for a format like this? The "scaling" should be static and increase constantly per node for everyone equally. You keep going until you hit your roster's limit. That way these events promote you to get a better roster, and level your character.

Currently this event has the opposite effect. You want to keep your roster as low as possible to cakewalk through the nodes. Very counter-intuitive game design.

If everyone's on the same playing field, there's three options.

1) The nodes are too easy for 166s. Old-timers complain it's too easy.
2) The nodes are just right for 166s. New players complain it's too hard, rich get richer, etc...
3) The nodes are too hard for 166s. Everyone complains.

There's a theme here.

Personal scaling has to exist to create a balance of competition. The question is only how well their algorithm that does the scaling is working. I would agree that in something like this, that scaling should not be factoring in previous PvE competition and focus on only roster strength, but I suspect their scaling algorithm is based on the same algorithm that determines MMR, where your win-loss record in those events combined with roster strength is the ultimate driving force.

cg2912

LoreNYC wrote:

cg2912 wrote:

scottee wrote:

LOTS of people have been asking for true PVE without placements rewards.

They finally make it.

Other people complain that they want placement rewards.

because gaming community

"Other people"-- meaning ONE guy.

Nearly everyone I chat with who has been playing more than a month was asking for progression-only pve with no time constraints - i.e. time zone screw-overs.

This event is perfect - granted I'm beyond most of the awards but I like that I can do as much as I want, whenever I want, and I don't get screwed for when I do the exact same thing as the next guy. Perfect pve structure - Great Job Devs

Agree. Not sure why you're quoting me.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

As far as D3's marketing dreams, good for them then. They gave us what we wanted. We are happy. What's hard to understand about that?

Because getting less stuff for more effort and loving it, goes against human nature.

It's hardly more effort. Hell, it's less stuff for LESS effort, and that's the point. PvP focused players and PvE focused players should revel in this event as a break from the grinding norm for placement. Think of it as a temporary prologue. Get the rewards, or don't, and it's gone in 3 days. Why stress over it?

If you get your 20k progression rewards in 4 matches because of rubberbanding and then peace out that's fine for you. This event wasn't targeted at you specifically, obviously, it was targeted at the player base as a whole, who seem to like it. That you think D3 is up to some evil machinations with this event or that the player base has been somehow deceived into liking it says more about you than it does D3.