How to file a ticket for this awful 3* tourney?

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

Misguided wrote:

That's been going on for weeks now.

I know that. I'm stating it for the benefit of everyone so that it's known that we're aware.

Ok, cool. I appreciate you mentioning it. Just double-checking you didn't think this was a new phenomenon.

Unknown

DumDumDugn wrote:

You only lose -40s when you have 800+ points. I had 400 and got hit for a -44. Please don't talk down to me like i'm stupid and don't know what i'm talking about.

No need to be sensitive. I think I'm speaking reasonably. I've always lost tons of points when I was at 400 and someone with 40 points attacks me. The same as when I'm at 100 points and I attack a guy at 400 for 40 point gain. It's a zero sum system. Every point gained is a point lost. Except in all the non-Hood lightning rounds.

It doesn't matter if you have 300 or 1300 points, point loss is determined by the difference between you and your attacker. Once you get to 300+ you'll start seeing 30+ loses. Seems like 10 points for every 100 to me but that's just a guess based on what I've seen.

I've made my opinions on how I don't think the point system works well because you can't defend yourself but it's not an easy problem to solve. The matchmaking system needs a lot of work as well.

Anyway as I stated, this is in my experience. I may be wrong, I may have strange luck. Or I may be right and you have strange luck. Whichever it is, tournaments have always worked like this for me. I've don't tank my rating and have usually been in top match making brackets. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. Personally I was aiming for top 15 in this one and got knocked down a bracket in the last minute(by you incidentally but hey, them's the breaks).

The sad thing to me is that most people will feel they have no choice but to tank their ratings once they see how savage the higher brackets are. Max level teams don't mean much and you will get attacked 3-5 times in the last 5 minutes because people will save you for last if they know you are likely to be worth points at the end. There's no point retaliating right away when you can leave someone to get another 100 points and then retaliate.

Unknown

casuist wrote:

DumDumDugn wrote:

You only lose -40s when you have 800+ points. I had 400 and got hit for a -44. Please don't talk down to me like i'm stupid and don't know what i'm talking about.

No need to be sensitive. I think I'm speaking reasonably. I've always lost tons of points when I was at 400 and someone with 40 points attacks me. The same as when I'm at 100 points and I attack a guy at 400 for 40 point gain. It's a zero sum system. Every point gained is a point lost. Except in all the non-Hood lightning rounds.

It doesn't matter if you have 300 or 1300 points, point loss is determined by the difference between you and your attacker. Once you get to 300+ you'll start seeing 30+ loses. Seems like 10 points for every 100 to me but that's just a guess based on what I've seen.

I've made my opinions on how I don't think the point system works well because you can't defend yourself but it's not an easy problem to solve. The matchmaking system needs a lot of work as well.

Anyway as I stated, this is in my experience. I may be wrong, I may have strange luck. Or I may be right and you have strange luck. Whichever it is, tournaments have always worked like this for me. I've don't tank my rating and have usually been in top match making brackets. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. Personally I was aiming for top 15 in this one and got knocked down a bracket in the last minute(by you incidentally but hey, them's the breaks).

The sad thing to me is that most people will feel they have no choice but to tank their ratings once they see how savage the higher brackets are. Max level teams don't mean much and you will get attacked 3-5 times in the last 5 minutes because people will save you for last if they know you are likely to be worth points at the end. There's no point retaliating right away when you can leave someone to get another 100 points and then retaliate.

It's only a zero sum system at higher ratings...if it was zero sum from the getgo nobody would have any points...

Unknown

DumDumDugn wrote:

It's only a zero sum system at higher ratings...if it was zero sum from the getgo nobody would have any points...

Yup, sorry I should have been clearer. But it does kick in around 300-400 points I think. Basically that's when I usually see the 30-40 point hits come in.

Unknown

For reference, I have a screenshot from the 1* weekend a few weeks ago. In this screenshot I lost 194 points. But it was across over 5 opponents (too many to display) and the highest point loss was -21 to someone who only had 655 points.

Posting from my phone right now so too annoying to transcribe. But I'll post both here in the morning if desired.

And IceIX, as a software developer with over 20 years of experience, I cannot say how many times I've sworn up, down, left, and right that I didn't change anything to cause a particular bug, only to discover otherwise after looking into it. Whether it was a side effect, inadequate testing, or developer know-it-all-ness, I've made that mistake enough times to hedge my bets against myself now.

Unknown

Zathrus wrote:

For reference, I have a screenshot from the 1* weekend a few weeks ago. In this screenshot I lost 194 points. But it was across over 5 opponents (too many to display) and the highest point loss was -21 to someone who only had 655 points.

Posting from my phone right now so too annoying to transcribe. But I'll post both here in the morning if desired.

And IceIX, as a software developer with over 20 years of experience, I cannot say how many times I've sworn up, down, left, and right that I didn't change anything to cause a particular bug, only to discover otherwise after looking into it. Whether it was a side effect, inadequate testing, or developer know-it-all-ness, I've made that mistake enough times to hedge my bets against myself now.

Sadly I think it's only a tiny % of us this bug is affecting so unless we band together we just don't have the numbers to corroborate our observations

It may sound like sour grapes to those that didnt get affected but I've never once complained coming in 3rd for magneto lightning rounds (and oh, this happened enough times for me to get gray hair) because at least I thought the tourney was run fair.

Even the punisher rubber banding thing happened to everyone equally. But today's bug...there were some of us playing a completely different tournament...

Unknown

casuist wrote:

. Once you get to 300+ you'll start seeing 30+ loses. Seems like 10 points for every 100 to me but that's just a guess based on what I've seen..

This is false.


In a normal tournament, the most you would lose is 8 to 11 points at that point level.

30+ point losses don't occur until you reach the 900-1000 point levels. Even then it is rare because you're usually getting hit by people near your rank.

Unknown

Toxicadam wrote:

casuist wrote:

. Once you get to 300+ you'll start seeing 30+ loses. Seems like 10 points for every 100 to me but that's just a guess based on what I've seen..

This is false.


In a normal tournament, the most you would lose is 8 to 11 points.

30+ point losses don't occur until you reach the 900-1000 point levels. Even then it is rare because you're usually getting hit by people near your rank.

I must be unlucky then, I've always lost 30 points when someone with 100 points attacked me and I was at 300-400 points. I usually don't even bother to start in tourneys early now because that's just asking to be knocked down to sub 100 overnight. Against equal opponents I'd lose 25 points. I only lose 10-15 points to people who are up to 100 points above you.

Again, this is my experience. Perhaps there is a bug that only affects some people and I've been affected all along. In my opinion this is unlikely though. I'm pretty sure you're meant to lose 25 points when you have 400 points and someone else with 400 points attacks you.

Unknown

I also experienced this. When I finally decided to stop treading water and just drown, I got knocked from near 400 points to 190 (probably less) at the end. Went from 1st early this morning to finishing in the top 250. Next time (if it happens again), I'll take screenshots.

Clintman

Ha, false?

I never got above 600 on the 3* tourney, I lost -44 quite a few times and -34 all day long. Trying to state that 30 point losses do not happen under 1000 rating is a bit incorrect based on empirical evidence.

Unknown

Clint wrote:

Ha, false?

I never got above 600 on the 3* tourney, I lost -44 quite a few times and -34 all day long. Trying to state that 30 point losses do not happen under 1000 rating is a bit incorrect based on empirical evidence.

In a normal tournament this does not occur, this 3 star tournament was operating under a different system (simlar to te one used on Hood lightning rounds).

That's what this discussion with casuist is about.

Unknown

casuist wrote:

Toxicadam wrote:

casuist wrote:

. Once you get to 300+ you'll start seeing 30+ loses. Seems like 10 points for every 100 to me but that's just a guess based on what I've seen..

This is false.


In a normal tournament, the most you would lose is 8 to 11 points.

30+ point losses don't occur until you reach the 900-1000 point levels. Even then it is rare because you're usually getting hit by people near your rank.

I must be unlucky then, I've always lost 30 points when someone with 100 points attacked me and I was at 300-400 points. I usually don't even bother to start in tourneys early now because that's just asking to be knocked down to sub 100 overnight. Against equal opponents I'd lose 25 points. I only lose 10-15 points to people who are up to 100 points above you.

Again, this is my experience. Perhaps there is a bug that only affects some people and I've been affected all along. In my opinion this is unlikely though. I'm pretty sure you're meant to lose 25 points when you have 400 points and someone else with 400 points attacks you.

I don't know about everyone else but, I was getting hit by people in the 300 point range while I was also in the 300 point range for +/-30 points.

Unknown

Clint wrote:

Ha, false?

I never got above 600 on the 3* tourney, I lost -44 quite a few times and -34 all day long. Trying to state that 30 point losses do not happen under 1000 rating is a bit incorrect based on empirical evidence.

Other than Hood lightning rounds, I've never experienced this before. Around 800 or 900 is when I'd start to get the 30 pt losses. Today was the worst I've ever experienced. Couldn't even make positive progression. Finished top 15 with 350 pts ****!

Unknown

Just confirming that my point swings in this tourney also seemed larger than usual. Those attacks really hurt... I had chalked it up to bad luck, but it looks like others experienced something similar.

Unknown

ChachieMusic wrote:

I don't know about everyone else but, I was getting hit by people in the 300 point range while I was also in the 300 point range for +/-30 points.

If you were at 300 and someone at 350 attacked you, you'd lose 30 points. The ratio seems to be 1 point gained/lost for every 10 points difference between teams. This is just a guess mind you.

The problem with the system is that it assumes you have an equal chance of beating your attacker. So, when you attack someone you can win your points back. Or even gain a little if they are ahead of you. Unfortunately, because defense has a negligible chance of winning, the system breaks down. If you could defend yourself, people would think twice about retaliating against your boosted max level team but since you can't, everyone just attacks indiscriminately.

Removing stockpile boosts might be a step in the right direction. Or making them cost 1 hero point each which would be the money making option. Being able to have up to 6 AP of 4 different colors just makes it too easy to win. Or maybe have a new boost for example 1000iso to have your team start with 3 of each AP on defense.

Another change might be to randomize the starting player so that the AI sometimes starts first.

Anyway, I'm just throwing things out there. The root of the point loss problem is that defense as it stands is worthless in the higher brackets and as such anyone in those brackets is going to suffer massive point loss. This is made worse by the match making system since you keep seeing the same people, the second you get an above average score, everyone you can see who can also see you is going to attack you, resulting in multiple hits within 5 minutes and massive point loss.

Unknown

_fulu_ wrote:

Clint wrote:

Ha, false?

I never got above 600 on the 3* tourney, I lost -44 quite a few times and -34 all day long. Trying to state that 30 point losses do not happen under 1000 rating is a bit incorrect based on empirical evidence.

Other than Hood lightning rounds, I've never experienced this before. Around 800 or 900 is when I'd start to get the 30 pt losses. Today was the worst I've ever experienced. Couldn't even make positive progression. Finished top 15 with 350 pts ****!

I was in the top 5 with a pathetic 420ish pts and then got knocked down to top 45 in the last few minutes. Consider yourself lucky

Spoit

casuist wrote:

ChachieMusic wrote:

I don't know about everyone else but, I was getting hit by people in the 300 point range while I was also in the 300 point range for +/-30 points.

If you were at 300 and someone at 350 attacked you, you'd lose 30 points. The ratio seems to be 1 point gained/lost for every 10 points difference between teams. This is just a guess mind you.

Yeah uh...I've never seen the points shake out that way. You definitely don't get/lose 30 points for a meer 50 point split

Unknown

Something was definitely odd in this tournament. It seems like we ended up with a strange cluster in the 300-point range. I would have a lot of opponents with scores that fluctuated near my own, and I'd be hit for 30 and the retaliation might be worth 20, *with someone near my own ranking including higher*.

It seemed relatively normal initially. I played a bunch over time, hit 500 points, went to bed, and came back to find myself hammered all the way down below 200 points. I fought my way back a couple of times during the day and ended up placing in the top 45, but I was essentially unable to progress beyond the 300-point market or so again. I don't attack opponents that aren't worth at least 20 points, and I try to attack as high as possible. But the retaliations were, unusually, costing me more than I was gaining (whereas it's common to attack for 25 and be hit back for 15, say, in previous tournaments, which still gets you a net 10 points).

In this tournament, I think any team could pretty much beat any other team. I have a 115 Rag, 102 Spidey, 102 GS Widow, so it's not like I'm running a wimp team that would be marked as easy pickings.

Unknown

Spoit wrote:

Yeah uh...I've never seen the points shake out that way. You definitely don't get/lose 30 points for a meer 50 point split

I'm looking at Shield training right now. My current points = 724, opponent = 793. Rating gain shows as 30. 70 point split so my initial estimate is off but still pretty close. And it's something you can try yourself. Just keep skipping opponents until you see someone close to you in points.

If I'm the only one seeing this then great! That means I've been having a hard time all along and they'll fix it and make life easier for me. I can't complain about that.

Edit: Just found someone who has 723 points. Rating gain = 25. So if this is a bug it's affecting Shield training as well. I know people have been saying it is like this at higher points and should not be at 300 but I'm not so industrious as to yield down to 300 to prove a point. If anyone decides to try that, it would be good evidence that something is wrong if in Shield training you don't gain 25 points from a 300 point opponent when you are at 300 points. If this is a case it would show clearly that the tourney was bugged.

Spoit

casuist wrote:

Spoit wrote:

Yeah uh...I've never seen the points shake out that way. You definitely don't get/lose 30 points for a meer 50 point split

I'm looking at Shield training right now. My current points = 724, opponent = 793. Rating gain shows as 30. 70 point split so my initial estimate is off but still pretty close. And it's something you can try yourself. Just keep skipping opponents until you see someone close to you in points.

If I'm the only one seeing this then great! That means I've been having a hard time all along and they'll fix it and make life easier for me. I can't complain about that.

I wouldn't know, It's extremely rare for the matchmaking to give me someone worth more than 20 points. Doubly so for that person to not be someone whose name I recognize