POLL: Team-Up Modifications (RESTARTED)

Unknown

Since I have been flooded with mostly useless (low level or too high costs) abilities, what happened in the first few matches: I was focusing on getting TUP ap, I felt like I HAVE TO collect them to get rid of the power (notice the wording of "get rid of", and not "use"), in the meanwhile I **** myself with regular AP generation so in the end the match took longer and I took more damage than otherwise would have. My reward, more often than not, was another of those aforementioned "should get rid of" tokens. So it was a viscous cycle.

Eventually I stopped to care. I realized, that ignoring the white AP wins faster for me. The only downside is that the def team gets 3, and sometimes it screws me a little, but not game breaking. I feel that in current state it is more than a hindrance than a feature for me. I need to be able to sell them (not refuse, sell - even if it is only for 10 iso).

OnesOwnGrief

Cryptobrancus wrote:

18. Either remove restrictions on bringing powers existing characters have, or enforce the same restrictions for defensive teamups.

Did this get overlooked? I think this is a major one. I had the misfortune to run into a Thor/OBW team and I was doing well until I realized a major problem. There was also a Team-Up for OBW aggressive recon... If you deny purple, they grab white. If you grab white, they grab purple. You are literally in a lose-lose situation and we all know if she gets a 4AP steal ability off, you're better off just hitting retreat right then. God forbid she does it twice like this.

Rusalka

WolfmanX25 wrote:

NighteyesGrisu wrote:

Jathro wrote:

I use team-ups to use up team-ups. Which only nets me another team-up.

*bangs head against wall*

and with a bit luck an even **** one than the one you got rid of...

No kidding. I somehow managed to gather the 17 AP necessary to use a TU Control Shift and my reward was a 19 AP Deadly Recon TU.

Solution: play the goon-only nodes in prologue. They don't drop TUs. My only difficulty was collecting enough AP before all the goons dropped dead from match damage. mStorm helped a lot.

Unknown

Rusalka wrote:

Solution: play the goon-only nodes in prologue. They don't drop TUs. My only difficulty was collecting enough AP before all the goons dropped dead from match damage. mStorm helped a lot.

No offense, but NO. They introduced True healing to remove prologue healing. Now you want us to go Prologue TUP dumping? No.

Rusalka

vetheran wrote:

Rusalka wrote:

Solution: play the goon-only nodes in prologue. They don't drop TUs. My only difficulty was collecting enough AP before all the goons dropped dead from match damage. mStorm helped a lot.

No offense, but NO. They introduced True healing to remove prologue healing. Now you want us to go Prologue TUP dumping? No.

I didn't say I want anyone to do it. I didn't even want to do it myself. But since the only other option was to sit on my pile of Control Shifts and Lethal Recons while I wait for the devs to implement the delete button, I decided to go for the prologue grinding this time. I promise, I won't come to your house and beat you up if you don't do it.

ZeiramMR

Some thoughts on poll choices:

"2. Players pick 0, 1, 2, or 3 powers. Give the AI 0, 1, 2, or 3 powers." I think it would allow people to game the system too much by allowing them to remove AI Team-Ups entirely, but I wouldn't mind the AI having a max of 1/2/3/3 instead. That way they always get at least 1 Team-Up but if you don't like them it is only the one-off attack (and apart from over-levelled PvEs you probably would only have seen 1 or 2 enemy Team-Ups used in a match in the current system)

"7. Make extreme powers like World Rupture rare for the AI teams." I'm pretty sure we're seeing a lot more World Rupture/Supernova than normal because of the PvE. Those nodes only seem to be drawing from Dark Avenger characters and as Sentry is not in any of the nodes, he is always a choice. Choice 10 would definitely help avoid this in the future.

MunitionsFrenzy

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

Cryptobrancus wrote:

18. Either remove restrictions on bringing powers existing characters have, or enforce the same restrictions for defensive teamups.

Did this get overlooked? I think this is a major one.

It's being fixed.

CNash

ZeiramMR wrote:

Some thoughts on poll choices:

"2. Players pick 0, 1, 2, or 3 powers. Give the AI 0, 1, 2, or 3 powers." I think it would allow people to game the system too much by allowing them to remove AI Team-Ups entirely, but I wouldn't mind the AI having a max of 1/2/3/3 instead. That way they always get at least 1 Team-Up but if you don't like them it is only the one-off attack (and apart from over-levelled PvEs you probably would only have seen 1 or 2 enemy Team-Ups used in a match in the current system)

Zero team-ups would also become the standard mode of play; less complexity means faster and more predictable / reliable matches.

Unknown

I'd like to add my own suggestion:

TUAP gained during a cascade should not be scaled down. I know environment tiles worked like this, but since this is closer to normal AP, they should remove this "feature".

Unknown

vetheran wrote:

I need to be able to sell them (not refuse, sell - even if it is only for 10 iso).

This 100%. We can sell unwanted covers which are randomly dropped for us, why should team-Ups we dont want be any different. I wouldnt mind being full of Contol Shifts or Lethal Recons if I could sell them. Seems like common sense to me and much better than just having a delete button.

jim1200

How about AI not getting three world ruptures cued up in their TU?

simonsez

ZeiramMR wrote:

Some thoughts on poll choices:

"2. Players pick 0, 1, 2, or 3 powers. Give the AI 0, 1, 2, or 3 powers." I think it would allow people to game the system too much by allowing them to remove AI Team-Ups entirely

Why is that a problem? This is supposed to be a game enhancement, not a game handicap. If we're willing to concede that it IS a handicap, and that was NOT the intent, then let''s just remove the damn thing entirely, and rework it so that it ISN'T.

Unknown

I would rather they remove the defensive half and let us keep the new toys to play with as just that. Or at the very very least standardize the defensive team-ups. Yelena supernovaing is no one's idea of fun.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

Just wanted to pop in and say thanks to Nonce for putting up this poll and for everyone participating in the discussion on our newest feature. We are most definitely listening and while we've already got some upgrades planned from inline development while we were getting R58 pushed, some of these QoL suggestions are *highly* useful for helping us calibrate exactly what people are looking for out of it. It's one thing to say that "People aren't using Team-Ups like they should" by looking at data, it's another thing to look at a thread like this and see exactly *why* that is.

So, thanks, and keep on keepin' on!

I apologize that these issues do not belong here, but I'm sure lots of us would like addressed.

1) Why has nothing been done (or nothing that we have been able to perceive was done) to end these ruthless "death brackets" this season? The last two seasons were great, but this season has been the most ruthless in recent memory.

2) Will (can) anything be done regarding PVE end times, especially for new character releases, (even if it is just rotating the end times like PVP's)? I personally live in US central time, but I am very sympathetic to my alliance members that live in the various times zones involved in supporting this game.

Sorry again for the out of place post.

Nighthawk81

I don't have time to read the whole thread but wanted to vent a bit. When we load team ups, the available powers are limited to our stock less the powers locked by characters we are about to play with. However, NOT so for the AI. In the recently completed LR, I got hit by Patch's berserker rage. Ok. But IMMEDIATELY after that, I get hit by another berserker rage from a stored team up power. How the tinykitty can this be allowed for the AI but not for the player? Needless to say I am tinykitty pissed! Has anybody else seen this? Feel free to reply with any already-posted comments about this.

Kolence

Would something like this be too much work?

Of the three team up slots, first is the environment power. Something not too powerful, certainly not like desert and forest (and 2nd tier tundra), probably weaker than laboratory. It should be pretty cheap 4-6 TU AP. This should be free, and repeatable in a fight.

Second and third team up slot is for the abilities we can equip like it is now. Second slot is cheaper at 8 or 9 TU AP and third slot is more costly, I'd say 13 TU AP. For both the color AP normally needed for the borrowed ability is needed but not spent when casting.

Good sides:

• Really strong AoE damage dealing abilities can be restricted to using them only in slot 3.
• Denying/stealing regular color of an ability prevents casting the team up version, but no TU AP stealing - that could get ugly, too quickly.
• Knowing up front how much TU AP is needed for (preventing) casting
• Using an ability as a team up should not be as easy as using it normally by one of your 3 characters. You get all the benefits from a strong power with no penalty for bringing along possibly weaker character.

Bad sides:

• Environment powers, what would they be and how balanced?
• AI would have to learn to save for the "real" team ups and not just spam the free environment ones. Or maybe not, it could serve as different difficulty level for AI.

Also, team up that the AI is going to have should be visible before the fight. Some luck and randomness is OK, but we get enough of that with boards, how it is now is too much and ruins strategic play. For PvE, I'd like if team ups would always be the same on a given node in an event.

Nonce Equitaur 2

May as well post this here, too.

Here's what I'm seeing in PvE:
The opponents consistently have Sentry powers, the best powers in the game.
The opponents consistently give me 1* powers, the worst and most overpriced powers in the game.
It's a huge effort to get rid of the powers priced 15 to 19. You're not even told the AP cost on the power, you have to go look it up.

Here's a good chunk of my Team Up powers now, and the Team-Up AP costs.
15 - Yelena Belova 2 - Lethal Recon
16 - Black Widow (Modern) 5 - Aggressive Recon
16 - Bullseye 4 5 - Murderous Aim
16 - Yelena Belova 3 - Lethal Recon
17 - Bullseye 2 3 - Murderous Aim
17 - Moonstone - Control Shift
18 - Bullseye 1 - Murderous Aim
18 - Yelena Belova 4 - Lethal Recon
19 - Yelena Belova 5 - Lethal Recon

Unknown

Definitely want a way to discard TU once in my hand also want a way to flat out refuse TUs so they don't get to my hand. The reason I don't want the option to sell them is that they are basically handed out like candy and realistically only worth 1 ISO.

Unknown

Things to possibly add to the list:

AI Team Ups can be selected from among the enemy team. (Daken can take Daken's Chemical Reaction TU for example).

Shield Tiles ALSO do not affect TU Tiles. If Strike Tiles are fixed this should be fixed too.

Unknown

Sorry if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but there's a minor issue that should take a backseat to some of the major problems with TUs, but should be remembered for later. Powers with countdown tiles are overpowered as TUs.

Powers with countdowns can be extra powerful because they're balanced by being able to stop their effect(s) either matching them or killing the character. TU countdown tiles can only be destroyed by matching.

For example: I had a FlameJet get placed in a corner that was impossible to get to due to stagnant board organization. Normally if this was the case I could have shifted my kill order to take out Torch but in this case I just had to soak up the damage for the rest of the match.