POLL: Team-Up Modifications (RESTARTED)

IceIX

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

One thing to do ....

Get all the environment powers, and assign TU AP costs to them.
Select some of the TU Powers to be Rare in AI teams.

When the powers are randomly selected, if it's Rare, make a percentage check. Pass, it goes in. Fail, the Environment power is swapped in instead.

I assume you'd mean the Environment power for that particular area and not any one. I'd love to see the complaints that pop up from people seeing Oasis in a Hi-Tech area if we did that.

IceIX

ZenMonkey wrote:

HI Icex,

could you shine a little light on how you expected them to be used? I'm not being negative or sarcastic with this question.

Well, much how people actually are. You figure out who you're using on your team, decide what available Team-Ups to use for that battle and use them strategically as needed to help out the fight.

What's happening in practice is generally a variation on one of the following:
"Ahh ****, I forgot to select any Team-Ups *again*" ::Team-Up Supernova to the face::
"Yes, I know I'm full, I have 18 Level 2 Repulsor Blasts I need to use because that's all KicksThatKick and Pyromantic dropped"
"I would *love* to use you, Avengers Assemble. It's just too bad the AI takes every single TUAP on the board ever." ::Team-Up Supernova to the face::

HairyDave

IceIX wrote:

ZenMonkey wrote:

HI Icex,

could you shine a little light on how you expected them to be used? I'm not being negative or sarcastic with this question.

Well, much how people actually are. You figure out who you're using on your team, decide what available Team-Ups to use for that battle and use them strategically as needed to help out the fight.

What's happening in practice is generally a variation on one of the following:
"Ahh ****, I forgot to select any Team-Ups *again*" ::Team-Up Supernova to the face::
"Yes, I know I'm full, I have 18 Level 2 Repulsor Blasts I need to use because that's all KicksThatKick and Pyromantic dropped"
"I would *love* to use you, Avengers Assemble. It's just too bad the AI takes every single TUAP on the board ever." ::Team-Up Supernova to the face::

That's amazingly accurate

Just replace the Repulsor Blasts with Photon Blasts (thanks to Captain Marvel being everywhere) and that's exactly what I've been seeing.

Rusalka

My suggestion would be not to drop TUs in PVE. In PVP, it adds another element of strategy to opponent selection. In PVE, you're stuck grinding repeatable nodes against the same **** opponents over and over, which is how people end up with all their slots full of unwanted Yelena and Bullseye powers. Still allow them to be used, though -- that way players could use PVE to ditch unwanted TUs instead of having to do it in prologue.

(This is in no way meant as a substitute for a delete button, however. I still want a delete button.)

Thanos

How bout we just drop the whole team up "feature" altogether and focus on things that would actually improve the game like character balancing and new game modes. I sincerely hope you guys didn't spend the last four months working on this.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

What's happening in practice is generally a variation on one of the following:
"Ahh ****, I forgot to select any Team-Ups *again*" ::Team-Up Supernova to the face::
"Yes, I know I'm full, I have 18 Level 2 Repulsor Blasts I need to use because that's all KicksThatKick and Pyromantic dropped"
"I would *love* to use you, Avengers Assemble. It's just too bad the AI takes every single TUAP on the board ever." ::Team-Up Supernova to the face::

I'm glad that you guys are at least aware that things are not well. To be perfectly honest I was a little worried that the company response was going to be "Hooray, they love Deadpool! Let's pop open some champagne and take the next month off!"

MunitionsFrenzy

IceIX wrote:

What's happening in practice is generally a variation on one of the following:
"Ahh ****, I forgot to select any Team-Ups *again*" ::Team-Up Supernova to the face::
"Yes, I know I'm full, I have 18 Level 2 Repulsor Blasts I need to use because that's all KicksThatKick and Pyromantic dropped"
"I would *love* to use you, Avengers Assemble. It's just too bad the AI takes every single TUAP on the board ever." ::Team-Up Supernova to the face::

1) Yup. Keep unused ones slotted like boosts, please?

2) Discard function, obviously. Preferably "refuse acquired team-up" option, though there's no reason to do that for boosts so that does break the symmetry a bit and add extra clicks; I'd understand leaving that off for mobile-platform elegance.

3) I really don't see this as an issue. That's a danger with any color, and Mistress of the Elements makes it actually less of an issue with colorless tiles than colored.

mags1587

IceIX wrote:

ZenMonkey wrote:

HI Icex,

could you shine a little light on how you expected them to be used? I'm not being negative or sarcastic with this question.

Well, much how people actually are. You figure out who you're using on your team, decide what available Team-Ups to use for that battle and use them strategically as needed to help out the fight.

What's happening in practice is generally a variation on one of the following:
"Ahh ****, I forgot to select any Team-Ups *again*" ::Team-Up Supernova to the face::
"Yes, I know I'm full, I have 18 Level 2 Repulsor Blasts I need to use because that's all KicksThatKick and Pyromantic dropped"
"I would *love* to use you, Avengers Assemble. It's just too bad the AI takes every single TUAP on the board ever." ::Team-Up Supernova to the face::

Heh. Accurate, but you forgot the "Boosted Wind Storm is going to take care of these goons just fine without any team-ups, thank you." one.

I would like to point out that it's really hard to pick your team ups strategically without knowing what powers you'll be facing. This is kind of pushing me towards ignoring team-ups all together right now -- unless I need to get rid of one or two. I hope that this is put on the list of things to implement somehow.

Jathro

I use team-ups to use up team-ups. Which only nets me another team-up.

*bangs head against wall*

mouser

I have this unhealthy angst that R59 will include a new feature letting you spend HP for more Team Up slots.

Rockabilly Zombie

The AI launches their team ups awfully early in some matches.

Unknown

CRITICAL ISSUES:

1. The delete option is so necessary they should hotfix the game to include it rather than waiting for the next full patch. Without it, Team-Ups are much less fun and much less useable for players on offense and we still suffer the pain of the AI using them, and people will quickly settle on a "it sucks!" opinion of Team-Ups.

2. Almost as necessary is to make it so that unused Team-Ups persist from match to match unless changed, like Boosts do. Having to select this stuff EVERY match is a pain and not fun. Really should be hotfixed with the above.

CAN WAIT FOR NEXT PATCH BUT I HOPE THE NEXT PATCH IS SOON"

3. Make the graphic not so similar to the crit symbol. I'm not the only one who keeps being confused by this. I guess maybe I'll get used to it, but for now it keeps throwing off my expectation of how tiles will fall.

4. Make strike tiles apply and stuff.

5. Let us see the defensive team's team-ups in advance. This also mitigates the problem of not being able to see them easily in-game.

6. Consider adding a couple of AP to the cost of team-up powers that lack their normal downside when used as team-up powers, whether that's a low HP hero, the ability to kill or stun the owner of a countdown tile, or self-damage: by this I mean Supernova, World Rupture, Wind Storm, Captain America's shield powers etc.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

ZenMonkey wrote:

HI Icex,

could you shine a little light on how you expected them to be used? I'm not being negative or sarcastic with this question.

Well, much how people actually are. You figure out who you're using on your team, decide what available Team-Ups to use for that battle and use them strategically as needed to help out the fight.

What's happening in practice is generally a variation on one of the following:
"Ahh ****, I forgot to select any Team-Ups *again*" ::Team-Up Supernova to the face::
"Yes, I know I'm full, I have 18 Level 2 Repulsor Blasts I need to use because that's all KicksThatKick and Pyromantic dropped"
"I would *love* to use you, Avengers Assemble. It's just too bad the AI takes every single TUAP on the board ever." ::Team-Up Supernova to the face::

Extremely glad to see this is being recognised and so quickly recognised.

Nonce Equitaur 2

From Team-up Powers list and suggested cost changes.

Missing characters are Human Torch (Johnny Storm), Thor (Modern), and Storm (Mohawk). Both representations of Gold characters Daken and Capt America are given.
Force Field Crush is in the list and inappropriate.
Force Bubbles is missing, but could be useful.
Redwing was given out despite not being on the official list.

---

IceIX Edit: Here's the listing of all the powers that are Team-Up-able, straight from the in-game code as of this morning. I'll leave it to Nonce to integrate this with how he likes to show data.
Ares - Onslaught
B???
B???
B???
Black Panther - Battleplan
Black Panther - Defense Grid
Black Panther - Rage of the Panther
Black Widow (Original) - Aggressive Recon
Black Widow (Original) -Anti Gravity Device
Black Widow (Modern) - Aggressive Recon
Black Widow (Modern) - Widows Sting
Black Widow (Grey Suit) - Deceptive Tactics
Black Widow (Grey Suit) - Pistol
Black Widow (Grey Suit) -Sniper Rifle
Bullseye - Murderous Aim
Captain America (Steve Rogers) - Peacemaker
Captain America (Steve Rogers) - Sentinel of Liberty
Captain America (Steve Rogers) - Star Spangled Avenger
Captain America (Modern) - Peacemaker
Captain America (Modern) - Sentinel Of Liberty
Captain America (Modern) - Star Spangled Avenger
Captain Marvel - Hypersonic Punch
Captain Marvel - Photonic Blasts
Daken (Classic) - Chemical Reaction
Daken (Dark Avengers Wolverine) - Chemical Reaction
Daredevil - Ambush
Daredevil - Equalizer
Daredevil - Radar Sense
Deadpool - A Little Off The Top
Deadpool - Whales! Whales! Whales!
Doctor Doom - Technopathic Strike
Doctor Doom - Summon Demons
Falcon - Bird Strike
Hawkeye (Classic) - Arrow Stab
Hawkeye (Classic) - Take Aim
Hawkeye (Modern) - Blast Arrow
Hawkeye (Modern) - Electric Arrow
Hood - Intimidation
Hood - Twin Pistols
Hulk - Smash
Hulk - Thunderous Clap
Human Torch (Classic) - Fireball
Human Torch (Classic) - FlameJet
Human Torch (Classic) - Inferno
Invisible Woman - Force Field Crush
Iron Man (Model 35) - Armored Assault
Iron Man (Model 35) - Repulsor Blast
Iron Man (Model 35) - Ultra Freon Beam
Iron Man (Model 40) - Ballistic Salvo
Iron Man (Model 40) - Unibeam
Juggernaut - Unstoppable Crash
Loki - Illusion
Loki - Trickery
Magneto (Classic) - Magnetic Field
Magneto (Classic) - Magnetic Translocation
Magneto (Classic) - Magnetized Projectile
Magneto (Marvel Now) - Iron Hammer
Magneto (Marvel Now) - Magnetic Flux
Magneto (Marvel Now) - Polarity Shift
Moonstone - Control Shift
Moonstone - Gravity Warp
Moonstone - Photon Blast
Nick Fury - Avengers Assemble
Nick Fury - Demolition
Nick Fury - Escape Plan
Psylocke - Bewilder
Psylocke - Psi Katana
Psylocke - Psychic Knife
Punisher - Judgement
Punisher - Molotov Cocktail
Punisher - Retribution
Ragnarok - Godlike Power
Ragnarok - Thunderclap
Sentry - Supernova
Sentry - World Rupture
She-Hulk- Power Of Attorney
She-Hulk - Reprieve
She-Hulk - Settlement
Spider-Man (Bag-Man) - Snarky Remark
Spider-Man (Bag-Man) - Switcheroo
Spider-Man (Bag-Man) - Web Slinger
Spider-Man (Classic) - All Tied Up
Spider-Man (Classic) - Web Bandages
Storm (Classic) - Lightning Storm
Storm (Classic) - Wind Storm
Storm (Modern) - Hailstorm
Storm (Modern) - Lightning Strike
Storm (Modern) - Mistress Of the Elements
Thor (Marvel NOW!) - Call the Storm
Thor (Marvel NOW!) - Mjolnirs Might
Thor (Marvel NOW!) - Thunder Strike
Venom - Devour
Venom - Symbiote Snare
Wolverine (Astonishing X-Men) - Adamantium Slash
Wolverine (Astonishing X-Men) - Feral Claws
Wolverine (Patch) - Berserker Rage
Wolverine (X-Force) - Enraged Slash
Wolverine (X-Force) - X-Force
Yelena Belova - Lethal Recon
Yelena Belova - Payback Mission

Unknown

Thanos wrote:

How bout we just drop the whole team up "feature" altogether and focus on things that would actually improve the game like character balancing and new game modes. I sincerely hope you guys didn't spend the last four months working on this.

I dislike just being negative, but can't really disagree with this. The last 24 hours have been by far the least enjoyable for me with this game. And this gets introduced as a new thing, when plenty of existing things need tweaking/fixing.

Such a shame really, the basis was here and I just feel with each major thing they do, it is either totally pointless, or just makes the game less fun to play. Just baffling.

Unknown

@IceIX Thor in the list you pasted above should be (Modern) not (Marvel NOW!). Don't want another spreadsheet error

yogi_

How about this...

You earn AP in a game and it goes into your collection of them.

You can then go to a store type area and spend your AP on only the boosts and team-ups that you want / need.

NighteyesGrisu

Jathro wrote:

I use team-ups to use up team-ups. Which only nets me another team-up.

*bangs head against wall*

and with a bit luck an even **** one than the one you got rid of...

Unknown

NighteyesGrisu wrote:

Jathro wrote:

I use team-ups to use up team-ups. Which only nets me another team-up.

*bangs head against wall*

and with a bit luck an even **** one than the one you got rid of...

No kidding. I somehow managed to gather the 17 AP necessary to use a TU Control Shift and my reward was a 19 AP Deadly Recon TU.

CNash

For defensive (AI) team up selections, why not tweak the probability of certain powers appearing based on story points? I know they're currently limited (somewhat) by event roster / token pack contents, but - for example - in the comics, Sentry is hella powerful but not the most reliable of guys, so we really shouldn't be seeing him that often as a randomly generated team up. And the Fantastic Four are infamous for being "in another dimension" whenever someone needs them, so the frequency of Sue and Johnny should be reduced.