Patch R58 Discussion - Live 7/29

Nonce Equitaur 2

From the level shift thread.

IceIX wrote:

I'm looking into gathering that info in an easy to digest form, as the files that we use internally have to be mangled for use. Doesn't make for anything very human readable. Those charts would be helpful to everyone though, and a similar runthrough for the characters max stats could save Nonce a bajeebus-load of time.

From the Questions? Ask.. thread.

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

IceIX wrote:

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

when will the site get a favicon?

Just set that on my todo. It'll probably be a D3 logo.

A few reminders.

IceIX

Thanks for those, actually. I've just added them to my to-do for tomorrow.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

For defense, your team will get a random supply of 3 Team-Up powers to use, taken from the characters available in the applicable Comic Pack for that Event (or Heroics if there's no Pack for that Event). So you'll be facing off against teams that have a variety of powers available to them as a result.

I have a few clarifications regarding this:
1. Does this mean that whenever I face someone's defensive team on PVP, the opponent will always have 3 team up powers equipped?
2. Is the random team up power's strength based on the strength of that power on your own roster? If yes, what about people with copies of the same character?
3. Will we know the 3 random team up abilities the opposing team has before entering the match?

over_clocked

Nice to see you again so soon, Ice.

locked wrote:

Ice, any chance of improving the in-game chat? PMs to teammates? The current chat is very tough to use and it conflicts with some Android keyboard features (swipe I believe). The 50 messages limit is bad, the 'read from bottom to top' is bad, the tiny white text is bad, the update glitches are bad, etc.

Can we also look for any players in a separate 'Players' search tab (in case we don't know their alliance) and/or be able to PM them? Maybe with some limit, but you already ban urls... Using the game itself and not some third-party app/the forums for direct communication would have been terrific.

IceIX

flnn1 wrote:

IceIX wrote:

For defense, your team will get a random supply of 3 Team-Up powers to use, taken from the characters available in the applicable Comic Pack for that Event (or Heroics if there's no Pack for that Event). So you'll be facing off against teams that have a variety of powers available to them as a result.

I have a few clarifications regarding this:
1. Does this mean that whenever I face someone's defensive team on PVP, the opponent will always have 3 team up powers equipped?
2. Is the random team up power's strength based on the strength of that power on your own roster? If yes, what about people with copies of the same character?
3. Will we know the 3 random team up abilities the opposing team has before entering the match?

1. Yes.
2. It's a random 3 powers with roughly equal power to the average level of the characters used. So if the person has three 166s, expect to see 3 166 abilities.
3. No.

avs962

IceIX wrote:

flnn1 wrote:

IceIX wrote:

For defense, your team will get a random supply of 3 Team-Up powers to use, taken from the characters available in the applicable Comic Pack for that Event (or Heroics if there's no Pack for that Event). So you'll be facing off against teams that have a variety of powers available to them as a result.

I have a few clarifications regarding this:
1. Does this mean that whenever I face someone's defensive team on PVP, the opponent will always have 3 team up powers equipped?
2. Is the random team up power's strength based on the strength of that power on your own roster? If yes, what about people with copies of the same character?
3. Will we know the 3 random team up abilities the opposing team has before entering the match?

1. Yes.
2. It's a random 3 powers with roughly equal power to the average level of the characters used. So if the person has three 166s, expect to see 3 166 abilities.
3. No.

Will we be able to see them during the match?

IceIX

avs962 wrote:

Will we be able to see them during the match?

Yes, more easily on PC than mobile, although possible on both. On PC, just select the Team Up tab for your opponents. On mobile, tap the enemy to bring up their info sheets then scroll right.

Unknown

You've already created a gorgeous version of the game for the PC. What's the holdup with bringing that improved user interface to tablets? The last graphical change to the iPad involved replacing the big black border with a big blue border.

Spoit

IceIX wrote:

CatMan wrote:

If I have Wolverine (astonishing) on my team can I use one of patch's team up abilities?

Nope. Same rules apply as for any other character selection: You can't use the same character twice and in PVE you can't use a character that's on the enemy team. You *can* use multiples of the same character as a Team-Up though. So if you want, you can run:
Black Widow (Original) - Aggressive Recon
Black Widow (Grey Suit) - Deceptive Tactics
Black Widow (Modern) - Aggressive Recon

Wait, can you stack the same power (with different tokens) multiple times?

Unknown

Spoit wrote:

IceIX wrote:

CatMan wrote:

If I have Wolverine (astonishing) on my team can I use one of patch's team up abilities?

Nope. Same rules apply as for any other character selection: You can't use the same character twice and in PVE you can't use a character that's on the enemy team. You *can* use multiples of the same character as a Team-Up though. So if you want, you can run:
Black Widow (Original) - Aggressive Recon
Black Widow (Grey Suit) - Deceptive Tactics
Black Widow (Modern) - Aggressive Recon

Wait, can you stack the same power (with different tokens) multiple times?

As long as the same skill exists on multiple versions of variations of a character and you have Team-Ups for both versions of those skills in inventory, then yup.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

Good that you mention this since apparently you didn't see my previous question. 1540 is LESS than her previous max damage even with the same amount of tiles destroyed (and if you are honest, more often than not, she used to destroy twice that many, so twice that damage). Added to the fact of the terrible loss of utility (board shake-up) that made her a playable character in spite of her squishiness and average damage, isn't this a nerf? I understand why she no longer can destroy all tiles, but could you please fix her somehow to make up for this? Storm is one of my favourite characters and see her becoming even less playable in a world of much better characters (and much better yellow abilities) is very sad, especially since this is not an intended change but rather, unfortunate fallout from the implementation of a new feature.

This is true that her relative damage is being lowered. I didn't comment specifically because others in posts around yours effectively answered the question. In this case, before she did lots of damage and shook up the board for more possible damage, but the destruction of the EO tiles themselves did essentially nothing for you. The idea was that this ability would power your EO abilities, but it worked out the be a damaging/board control ability instead. Now she directly breaks and gains TU tiles and AP, still does a moderate amount of board control, and adds in some decent damage. Especially damage of a color that isn't usually used for direct damage. There's most definitely something to be said for the power to transmute 9 Yellow AP into 6/7 Team-Up AP, plus damage, plus board control.

But why can't a nerf be called a nerf when it's clearly a nerf? Before, she had tons of utility (which made her viable), EO plus board shake that could usually be planned for the most part, because every EO tile was destroyed. And, even that ap was useful depending on the board you were on, save one. As a concession for the utility/potential damage, she was incredibly squishy. Now, she loses potential and actual damage (fewer maximum tiles destroyed and less damage per), she loses utility (there's no chance 7 tiles vanishing will create the potential cascades of 10+, sometimes as many as 20, tiles being destroyed), she gains no consolation for the nerf (since the core mechanism of MotE, destroying specialized tiles, is unchanged), and as an added slap in the face she's still squishy...

Please IceIX, sell me on Mostorm not being worthless, because every time someone says "But she can destroy TU tiles! That's good, right?" I die a little inside. Why can't she destroy all of them and only get a fixed amount of TU ap, or a scaled back amount (X amount of tiles destroyed = Y TU ap)? That hypothetical being the case, why can't it be 5 ap like Mstorm is currently? Her "board control" from cascades with MotE after these changes becomes marginally better than Cmags' red, but without the low cost. Mostorm really needs "something", otherwise she's going to be shelved by damn near everyone, guaranteed.

IceIX wrote:

still does a moderate amount of board control, and adds in some decent damage.

I'm sure you meant "mediocre" instead for both those adjectives, right?

DrNitroman

IceIX wrote:

Team-Ups are currently only gained through actual gameplay, no purchases. We're actually more likely to investigate things like having them giftable between Alliance members before we have them be some kind of grab bag or directly purchaseable item.

Making team-ups giftable between Alliance members would be very nice both for gameplay and for alliances.
Was it just an idea you thrown or is there a real chance that this feature will be implemented in the future

Unknown

Pretty sure ice is gone now but I was just thinking what about powers that have different ap costs based on the level? Like OBW's recon and IM40's recharge for example. How will those work in terms of team up ap costs?

Pylgrim

NightsReign wrote:

IceIX wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

Good that you mention this since apparently you didn't see my previous question. 1540 is LESS than her previous max damage even with the same amount of tiles destroyed (and if you are honest, more often than not, she used to destroy twice that many, so twice that damage). Added to the fact of the terrible loss of utility (board shake-up) that made her a playable character in spite of her squishiness and average damage, isn't this a nerf? I understand why she no longer can destroy all tiles, but could you please fix her somehow to make up for this? Storm is one of my favourite characters and see her becoming even less playable in a world of much better characters (and much better yellow abilities) is very sad, especially since this is not an intended change but rather, unfortunate fallout from the implementation of a new feature.

This is true that her relative damage is being lowered. I didn't comment specifically because others in posts around yours effectively answered the question. In this case, before she did lots of damage and shook up the board for more possible damage, but the destruction of the EO tiles themselves did essentially nothing for you. The idea was that this ability would power your EO abilities, but it worked out the be a damaging/board control ability instead. Now she directly breaks and gains TU tiles and AP, still does a moderate amount of board control, and adds in some decent damage. Especially damage of a color that isn't usually used for direct damage. There's most definitely something to be said for the power to transmute 9 Yellow AP into 6/7 Team-Up AP, plus damage, plus board control.

But why can't a nerf be called a nerf when it's clearly a nerf? Before, she had tons of utility (which made her viable), EO plus board shake that could usually be planned for the most part, because every EO tile was destroyed. And, even that ap was useful depending on the board you were on, save one. As a concession for the utility/potential damage, she was incredibly squishy. Now, she loses potential and actual damage (fewer maximum tiles destroyed and less damage per), she loses utility (there's no chance 7 tiles vanishing will create the potential cascades of 10+, sometimes as many as 20, tiles being destroyed), she gains no consolation for the nerf (since the core mechanism of MotE, destroying specialized tiles, is unchanged), and as an added slap in the face she's still squishy...

Please IceIX, sell me on Mostorm not being worthless, because every time someone says "But she can destroy TU tiles! That's good, right?" I die a little inside. Why can't she destroy all of them and only get a fixed amount of TU ap, or a scaled back amount (X amount of tiles destroyed = Y TU ap)? That hypothetical being the case, why can't it be 5 ap like Mstorm is currently? Her "board control" from cascades with MotE after these changes becomes marginally better than Cmags' red, but without the low cost. Mostorm really needs "something", otherwise she's going to be shelved by damn near everyone, guaranteed.

IceIX wrote:

still does a moderate amount of board control, and adds in some decent damage.

I'm sure you meant "mediocre" instead for both those adjectives, right?

At this point we'll just have to wait and see if they are informed by their famed metrics how she'll pass from being a rarely used character to a never used character. 7 Team Up AP does sound nice, but that's only if you give her 5 yellow covers, which sounds unlikely now that the other two abilities are better. Going 5 covers for the 7 tiles is silly, anyway, since firing a Team Up skill is something that more often than not, you'll be doing ONCE per game. 2 covers just to slightly speed that up is really not worth it.

Unknown

Only hours now... *fiddling thumbs*

simonsez

I'm not sure why generating Team Up AP is much of a consolation. Given the choice, why wouldn't anyone just use a character with a good skill, rather than use a character who can generate AP that might generate a decent loaner skill?

Unknown

I think it is almost funny the way developers are trying to catch our attention into other topics so we do not discuss anymore about things that are important.

Bringing balance to characters I could sometimes swallow this excuse, but nerfing a 1* character is really too much. And basically the Moro storm is becoming even less usefull. Sure it helps the team, but she dies with 2 wind blows.

BP will be stronger now, and that would bring an alternative to Sentry.

And as they have taken the time to change the abilities of DD, why they did not add that he could put the tile where he wants? And to my opinion, it would have been better to leave the radar power linked to the TU, as this would have brought real advantage to the character and it should have added stealing TU from opponents.

But again, this might have made the game a bit nicer to play and might have not been the idea

Unknown

I think most of Daredevil's powers would be overpowered if you could select which tile they were placed on. You'd just wait for a match 4 opportunity, place the Radar Sense tile and hey-presto 5 x all colour AP stolen and you've probably just won the match.

Unknown

I've got a few more questions for IceIX if you make it back on.

1.Will something be done about skipping. I keep cycling through the same 3-5 opponents who are under my points by a huge margin. when i get past 1000-1100 range.

2.MMR will there be any changes to this system in the future?
(tanking has to be the most tedious/necessary part of the game right now)

3. why do levels reach so high in pve?
(can't you come up with a reasonable max level for enemies. rosters have a max. I faced a level 316 venom being fed black ap by a 316 maggia with a 315 rag thrown in for good measure. at those levels venom can devor for 5500. not to mention the maggia can put two strike tiles out for 1750 then its game over if they get a cascade. this is just overkill.)

4.will I ever be able to use my android account on pc? (If I back up using fb can't I sync with pc?)

Unknown

I just got the patch and am playing a few matches with it.

I think this might be a bug, but I don't understand it.

In my first match, I won a Captain Marvel team-up ability. But I can't equip that in Captain Marvel PVP. It's locked out. I get that, she already has that ability, letting me use it for team up mana or colored AP would be weird right?

Yet in my second match, fighting against MHawkeye and Wolverine, the team up abilities the AI has equipped are ....
Electric Arrow
Adamantium Slash
Ballisitic Salvo

Why can the AI double up on colored vs Team-Up AP, and we can't?


Oh, and World Rupture is available as a team up, in spite of us being told abilities which damage your team (Sunder, Headbutt) would not be available. Is it because those only damage the one character, whereas World Rupture hits everyone?