*** The Punisher (Dark Reign) ***

Unknown

Even though black is weak with the countdown tile I think it's still better than green, which is just random board destruction for a character that lives on special tiles.

I'm leaning toward 5/3/5 right now, simply because green is such junk with the huge random destruction. The few times I've used it I've watched it destroy strike tiles it put down the previous usage, CD tiles I just spawned, web tiles... pretty much everything I don't want destroyed.

The CD tile isn't too huge an issue if you're using Spidey -- stun lock prevents the other team from destroying it. On defense the AI will handle black and red slightly better than green; particularly black since there are so few other characters with black.

But, overall, I agree -- not a strong character at this point.

Unknown

It seems that the Rags red skill does a much better job of avoiding my tiles than this green skill. Is it because rags only coverts basic tiles or something?

Unknown

greggray24 wrote:

It seems that the Rags red skill does a much better job of avoiding my tiles than this green skill. Is it because rags only coverts basic tiles or something?

Correct.

Unknown

Man...I am struggling to decide how to build him. I have him at 3/3/3 with green and red in cache but I cant decide where to go next... 5 red sounds nice but leaning toward 5/5/3 but hearing lvl5 black countdown has increased to 2 makes me pause and want to go 3/5/5

Unknown

EvilSonGoku wrote:

Man...I am struggling to decide how to build him. I have him at 3/3/3 with green and red in cache but I cant decide where to go next... 5 red sounds nice but leaning toward 5/5/3 but hearing lvl5 black countdown has increased to 2 makes me pause and want to go 3/5/5

Think about rainbow team. What other character you use with black skill? Hood ? Venom?
8 red - rag can do 2.4k+ damage with 4 times clap plus a lots of cascades. Difference between 30% of punisher red skill and 40% is not that big - If character has 10k life it is only 1k damage difference.

I am going 5/5/3. Rag is the best damage character with red skill. Period. Punisher is the best damage dealer with black damage (maybe doom is better but doom depends on red tiles). Period

Unknown

Does strike tile damage not get added to attack tile damage? It seems to me that it doesn't. If so then i can't justify 5 black. Having a hard time justifying it to begin with a randomly placed 2/3 turn countown tile that always seems to get taken out. By the time I build enough black AP and then wait 2 turns the match is over anyway.

Unknown

the moose wrote:

Does strike tile damage not get added to attack tile damage? It seems to me that it doesn't. If so then i can't justify 5 black. Having a hard time justifying it to begin with a randomly placed 2/3 turn countown tile that always seems to get taken out. By the time I build enough black AP and then wait 2 turns the match is over anyway.

Also by the time I build enough black AP, it's fairly common for all the available red tiles to be non-basic. In that case, firing Punisher's black skill does nothing but the immediate damage.

Unknown

Bartok wrote:

the moose wrote:

Does strike tile damage not get added to attack tile damage? It seems to me that it doesn't. If so then i can't justify 5 black. Having a hard time justifying it to begin with a randomly placed 2/3 turn countown tile that always seems to get taken out. By the time I build enough black AP and then wait 2 turns the match is over anyway.

Also by the time I build enough black AP, it's fairly common for all the available red tiles to be non-basic. In that case, firing Punisher's black skill does nothing but the immediate damage.

I'm pretty sure it adds a red strike tile, not changes a basic red tile to a red strike tile.

Unknown

Blue Shoes wrote:

Bartok wrote:

the moose wrote:

Does strike tile damage not get added to attack tile damage? It seems to me that it doesn't. If so then i can't justify 5 black. Having a hard time justifying it to begin with a randomly placed 2/3 turn countown tile that always seems to get taken out. By the time I build enough black AP and then wait 2 turns the match is over anyway.

Also by the time I build enough black AP, it's fairly common for all the available red tiles to be non-basic. In that case, firing Punisher's black skill does nothing but the immediate damage.

I'm pretty sure it adds a red strike tile, not changes a basic red tile to a red strike tile.

Unless they changed it recently, you need a free red tile or get nothing.

Unknown

Molotov requires a free red tile, but if every red tile is taken by you, you're already in great shape and don't really need to worry not getting the attack tile in. If they're all taken by the enemy, you got other issues to worry about first.

Right now since some character can simply dominate by themselves (e.g. Ragnarok) with very low AP moves, it's probably not that important to worry about keeping a balance of colors. In theory, when things are more balanced you've to worry about the cases where you don't have exactly all the colors you need and how to turn a marginal board into a useful one.

mischiefmaker

the moose wrote:

Does strike tile damage not get added to attack tile damage? It seems to me that it doesn't. If so then i can't justify 5 black. Having a hard time justifying it to begin with a randomly placed 2/3 turn countown tile that always seems to get taken out. By the time I build enough black AP and then wait 2 turns the match is over anyway.

Attack tile damage = sum (all attack tiles) + sum (all strike tiles). That is, strike tile damage gets added once.

The upshot of this is that when playing with both strike and attack tiles, unless your attack tiles do way more damage than your strike tiles (unlikely except in the case of Doom), the first attack tile is the important one, since it allows your strike tiles to double dip (once on the match-3, once on the attack).

ihearthawthats wrote:

Unless they changed it recently, you need a free red tile or get nothing.

Just to be clear, you always get the area damage, but you need to have a free red tile on the board to get the countdown.

Unknown

Got it. I thought we were talking about the countdown, not the initial placement. BTW, they changed that when the increased the countdown tile by one.

Unknown

It's pretty funny when your Molotov attack tile does like 10 damage + 1500 from Wolverine's strike tiles in The Hulk event.

Unknown

finwe wrote:

Kinda disappointed now that I have a couple of covers, he sounds better on paper than he is.

His black is pretty unreliable, the green does more harm than good in most cases, the red has a terrible DMG / AP ratio unless your fighting really high health enemies.

I think I'll shelf him like cap into the PVE obscurity corner for bringing down some 20k health opponent from time to time.

yeah this is what i'm finding too. the green is just messing things up, including his own tiles.


I still maintain 5/5/3 is best, but as a tile guy, you'd want to use him with other tile guys like spiderman or doom, and just wear the other team down under the weight of the damage/turn. The problem with this

1) in the metagame right now raganarok / BW teams still get the job done way faster
2) his green f's up his own tiles

Kiamodo

Polkio wrote:

EvilSonGoku wrote:

Man...I am struggling to decide how to build him. I have him at 3/3/3 with green and red in cache but I cant decide where to go next... 5 red sounds nice but leaning toward 5/5/3 but hearing lvl5 black countdown has increased to 2 makes me pause and want to go 3/5/5

Think about rainbow team. What other character you use with black skill? Hood ? Venom?
8 red - rag can do 2.4k+ damage with 4 times clap plus a lots of cascades. Difference between 30% of punisher red skill and 40% is not that big - If character has 10k life it is only 1k damage difference.

I am going 5/5/3. Rag is the best damage character with red skill. Period. Punisher is the best damage dealer with black damage (maybe doom is better but doom depends on red tiles). Period

Completely agree.

Unknown

My promised update:

My Punisher is currently 2/5/5 at lvl127. I have to curb my enthusiasm a little because he has been buffed in the Hulk event so I'll focus on the skills right now.

I always wait to get enough green before throwing a cocktail because the aoe damage will be boosted by a guaranteed 3 strike tiles. And if he gets an attack tile or two out (easy to do with a spidey) those benefit from the strike tiles as well. In general I would just say he is fun to play with. Especially with the boost right now I once managed to get 7 of his strike tiles on the board and throw a couple of cocktails. Once the attach tiles started spawning I was doing over 2000 damage on each turn just because of tile match + strike and then attack tile + strike.

I still don't know about my decision of red over black. I think red is good when you don't have a great board and need to kill a super hi hp character quickly. I think black is more fun and wouldn't mind the extra damage and lower countdown. It's really good when you have more control over the board.

Unknown

Am I the only one who thinks 3/5/5 is better than 5/5/3?

If you intend to use Strike Tiles, you don't really need Attack Tiles to be at their max strength, nor do you need a lot. One will do just fine, the Strike Tiles do the bulk of the damage. 113 damage at lv 141 isn't by an means game-breaking.

As for Red. When you go up against a PVE boosted 20k Health Ragnarok, that 40% is starting to look a little more friendly. Not that I ever got that far, lol.

If you really need attack tiles from Black, I think Dr Doom makes a much better choice.

Unknown

beezer37_84 wrote:

My promised update:

My Punisher is currently 2/5/5 at lvl127. I have to curb my enthusiasm a little because he has been buffed in the Hulk event so I'll focus on the skills right now.

I always wait to get enough green before throwing a cocktail because the aoe damage will be boosted by a guaranteed 3 strike tiles. And if he gets an attack tile or two out (easy to do with a spidey) those benefit from the strike tiles as well. In general I would just say he is fun to play with. Especially with the boost right now I once managed to get 7 of his strike tiles on the board and throw a couple of cocktails. Once the attach tiles started spawning I was doing over 2000 damage on each turn just because of tile match + strike and then attack tile + strike.

I still don't know about my decision of red over black. I think red is good when you don't have a great board and need to kill a super hi hp character quickly. I think black is more fun and wouldn't mind the extra damage and lower countdown. It's really good when you have more control over the board.

I'm glad you did, man. I caved and went 5/5/3 as mentioned. I'm only at 100 right now and he seems OK-ish...might just be a function of the character not truly being a Magneto/Ragnarok tier powerhouse. Ironically, the initial damage on his black when he first tosses out the cocktail might be one of the best things about him. With strike tiles in place, it's almost like a mini Grey Widow green

Please continue to share notes in the future since I think we'd all like to know what we missed out on. I'm sure you'll be happy with your choices when Hulk gets health buffed in the next tourney. Since Ragnarok has 21K health in Lightning Rounds, who knows how much health Hulk will have when he gets buffed

Unknown

One thing to note about attack tiles is that they activate even if Punisher or your entire team is stunned.

Unknown

I think I'm going down the 3/5/5 route after looking over the numbers again.

Level 3 vs level 5 black just doesn't seem too impressive and the attack tiles are unimpressive in general.
The gain in utility from the red is just a bit better than what you get for the black(better nuke/nice range on the execute vs slightly better attack tiles and 1 CD).
In terms of damage I'd imagine his rotation being green to black and red usage depending on your team. The main boost from the green's strike to black's attack only needs 1 on the board to really get the full effects.
He's just really outclassed in actual tile effects IMO, but I'd like to hear how effective the tile barrage is at 5/5/3.

I might just be biased since my Punisher is 3/3/3 with 2 reds and a green in my stash that expire soonish.