*** The Punisher (Dark Reign) ***

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  • - Stunned characters will no longer have their Countdown tiles decrease while stunned. S.H.I.E.L.D. still mystified as to how H.A.M.M.E.R. Snipers managed to line up shots with active concussions.

    Patch note from r42 Nov 18.

    Fair enough. Seems understandable. Now.... How does a stun already affect a Molotov Cocktail thrown? Did Punisher suddenly gain the ability to control his Molotov with his mind, or....
  • Bugpop wrote:
    I don't really mind, except that it bugs me when the descriptions don't exactly match what it does.

    "converting a random basic color tile to a X damage Attack tile"

    Seems correct to me... the confusion is that you might expect "spreading fire" to indicate changing the tile color as well, but it doesn't.

    If his green was targetable then it would be so much better than what it is... I'm still not sure what a good build for him would be. I really like his black, even though its slow to start (I'd happily give up the initial damage if it would place a CD and an attack tile to start with). His red is simply too low damage for the AP, although the instant kill makes up for some of that.

    Skyedyne -- come on. It's a game mechanic. Trying to have some CDs that are affected by stuns and some that are not would be incredibly confusing to players. And this is hardly the first one that would fall into that category... Bomb Techs and Demolitions spring to mind...
  • Zathrus wrote:
    Skyedyne -- come on. It's a game mechanic. Trying to have some CDs that are affected by stuns and some that are not would be incredibly confusing to players. And this is hardly the first one that would fall into that category... Bomb Techs and Demolitions spring to mind...

    Ha. True enough. icon_e_biggrin.gif Still, with the change to black, having black be stun immune might give it a small edge up again, as a thought.

    All in all, it was more a post poking a small bit of fun at the description for change in regards to how stun operates.
  • Zathrus wrote:
    If his green was targetable then it would be so much better than what it is... I'm still not sure what a good build for him would be. I really like his black, even though its slow to start (I'd happily give up the initial damage if it would place a CD and an attack tile to start with). His red is simply too low damage for the AP, although the instant kill makes up for some of that.

    I'm going 3/5/5. The black is only useful to me because it hits all three enemies, which does decent damage with a bunch of wolverine strike tiles out. Green probably won't get used, but if in a situation where you need to, might as well get max benefit, versus black, where I just don't see his attack tiles changing the course of the battle. Too slow and not enough damage. If they had kept the original, where it reduced to one, I probably would have gone 5/3/5. I actually think at this point they should change level 5 to create two countdowns.
  • I think a countdown of 1 is too fast, but a CD of 3 is too slow... if only there was a middle ground...

    And yes, having L5 spawn two CDs instead of reducing it by 1 (to 1) would've been better. The end effect is kind of the same, but now there are two tiles to eliminate instead of just one.

    I agree that the black doing damage to the entire team is nice, especially if you already have a lot of strike tiles out, but I'd still pass that for having it spawn a single attack tile to start with (or maybe 2 at L5, along with the 2 CD tiles) since they get strike tiles added to their tick as well.

    All in all, I don't see Punisher being a core team member... I'd rather take Hulk, and I don't think he's all that great either, but at least he's a damage sponge.
  • mischiefmakermischiefmaker Age Unconfirmed Posts: 932
    I'm with misguided on this one; I think 3/5/5 is the way to go. A 2-turn countdown to generate one attack tile is way too slow to make much of a difference. Playing with modern Hawkeye in the Hunt event, I had plenty of experience with matches hinging on 2-turn countdowns, and I found that even trying to be careful and match red before laying the countdown, it would get matched maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of the time. Basically I'm thinking of the black as somewhat cheap area damage; if it makes any strike tiles that's gravy.

    Also don't forget that most good opponents (Rag, Thor, Mags) all like red, so have a preference for matching it, and that if you're playing him with Wolverine to pump up the area damage, red might be overrun with strike tiles (this has happened to me a couple of times during the Hulk event), in which case no countdown is created.

    Maxing green looks pretty strong; upping strike tile damage by 50% is pretty monster. I think that one's the no-brainer. Maxing red isn't huge, but best case you're talking about not having to do an extra 2k damage to a lightning-round-buffed-Ragnarok, which is pretty significant.

    That being said, I think it's likely I'll cast black way more often than I cast red, but that's more of a statement on how good other red powers are than anything else.
  • After playing with The Punisher a ton in the Hulk event, I have to say the green power leaves me extremely non-plused. The fact that it is a completely random spot on the board is extremely frustrating. This is a character that puts down special tiles left and right, but you are going to tell me he could wipe them out at random? That has been frustrating.

    Also, he pairs so well with Wolverine, and I prefer Wolverine's green power anyway. The black, to me, being an AOE is important. The attack tiles it creates are icing. Also, I see the red as either the thing you need most in the world or just a nice extra bit of damage. Having it at 5, for me anyway, seems like a no brainer in the Lightning Rounds or these ever so fun 240/240/240 matches that seem to be the end of every PVE event.

    I really like him in general, and my Spidey/Wolverine/Punisher combo has served me well these last two weeks, and I think I'm going to end up with 5/3/5, if only because the random nature of the green power is frustrating.
  • Skyedyne wrote:
    Fair enough. Seems understandable. Now.... How does a stun already affect a Molotov Cocktail thrown? Did Punisher suddenly gain the ability to control his Molotov with his mind, or....

    You're all thinking of this in the wrong way. Clearly the power description is wrong and should read "The Punisher lobs a bottle of liquid mayhem. Damages the enemy team for 59 and converts a random basic color tile to a Red Countdown tile that spreads fire every 2 turns AS FRANK SPRAYS THE BATTLEFIELD WITH GASOLINE, converting a random basic color tile to a 12 damage Red Attack Tile."

    That takes care of everything and is thematically consistent with the Punisher and countdown tiles icon_twisted.gif
  • So torn on the build here. It is hard to believe I'd ever have him on a team where he has the best red skill but I could see it coming in handy against high health targets. I like his black if only because most of my teams don't have a black skill to use. I agree with those that found green to be counterproductive by destroying tiles I've set up and managed carefully. In the hulk I had Spidey webs and/or wolvies tiles, and punisher cocktails out ther and use of his green would wipe them out. Wish it just put down his attack tiles and did not destroy or better yet let you target the attack. Suspect I won't use this hero anyway but still want to build a strategic build in case he is boosted or something. At 2/3/3 now so will have to decide after 2nd avengers tournament if I win (have plans this afternoon so will miss the finish). Perhaps I'll not win a cover and then can procrastinate the decision icon_e_smile.gif
  • Think I'm going 3-5-5 and want to pair him up with cMags and Spidey. Hopefully after the Avengers tourney I can pump some iso in to him and report back (although my red should be the only one that is maxed at that point). I've found the last Maggia mission in Dark Avengers to be a decent testing ground when there are no good events going on.

    I really wanted black at 5 but even with Spidey the board control that is required in order to make that viable is crazy. I used that team for the difficult missions in the Hulk event and would quickly get to the point of not being able to match anything without taking out a friendly tile. I'd rather just blow everything up with Green at that point and see how it goes.
  • Does anyone have current max level 5 skill info? Particularly for black since I'm assuming the other have remained the same?
    I'm still leaning towards 3/5/5 since black doesn't seem to particularly benefit from 4/5 skill, especially after the tile nerf on both countdown and Attack. But would still be somewhat usable as team damage.
  • Does anyone have current max level 5 skill info? Particularly for black since I'm assuming the other have remained the same?
    I'm still leaning towards 3/5/5 since black doesn't seem to particularly benefit from 4/5 skill, especially after the tile nerf on both countdown and Attack. But would still be somewhat usable as team damage.

    copy and paste:

    Molotov Cocktail - Black 7 AP
    The Punisher lobs a bottle of liquid mayhem. Damages the enemy team for 59 and converts a random basic color tile to a Red Countdown tile that spreads fire every 2 turns, converting a random basic color tile to a 12 damage Red Attack Tile.
    Level Upgrades
    Level 2: Increases Attack tile damage to 15.
    Level 3: Increases initial team damage to 89.
    Level 4: Increases Attack tile damage to 18.
    Level 5: Reduces Countdown to 1.
    Max Level: 557 damage, 113 damage per Attack tile
  • Does anyone have current max level 5 skill info? Particularly for black since I'm assuming the other have remained the same?
    I'm still leaning towards 3/5/5 since black doesn't seem to particularly benefit from 4/5 skill, especially after the tile nerf on both countdown and Attack. But would still be somewhat usable as team damage.

    copy and paste:

    Molotov Cocktail - Black 7 AP
    The Punisher lobs a bottle of liquid mayhem. Damages the enemy team for 59 and converts a random basic color tile to a Red Countdown tile that spreads fire every 2 turns, converting a random basic color tile to a 12 damage Red Attack Tile.
    Level Upgrades
    Level 2: Increases Attack tile damage to 15.
    Level 3: Increases initial team damage to 89.
    Level 4: Increases Attack tile damage to 18.
    Level 5: Reduces Countdown to 1.
    Max Level: 557 damage, 113 damage per Attack tile

    I'm pretty sure that info is outdated, countdowns are different, the Attack tile damage was halved and I'm pretty sure the team damage was reduced(not sure about that last one).

  • I'm pretty sure that info is outdated, countdowns are different, the Attack tile damage was halved and I'm pretty sure the team damage was reduced(not sure about that last one).

    Gotcha, going 3-5-5 either way but that makes me feel even better about it. Thanks!
  • FoxInSoxFoxInSox Age Unconfirmed Posts: 75 Match Maker
    That is outdated. At 5, the black power's countdown drops to 2. Green at 5 creates 3 strike tiles. Red at 5 downs the target if their health is below 40%. Mine is at 5/5/3. I have way better red damage dealers.
  • Doesn't mean much but if it helps anyone great:

    At lvl 90 with 2 black damages the team for 309, attack tiles do 39 damage.

    The next upgrade increases team damage to 464.
  • Sorry if I missed this info, but does anyone know the info for the black skill? I've read that is was changed with an update but cannot find the stats anywhere. I currently have a 1/3/0 punisher with a 4th green card in my stash. I was planning on going with a 5/3/5 build originally, but not sure if the black skill got nerfed badly. I use lv 85 Wolvie for green all the time so not sure I would be using it for punisher very much, and the random destruction of tiles isn't very appealing for me. Any help I can get would be appriecated. Thank you.
  • meatwad420 wrote:
    Sorry if I missed this info, but does anyone know the info for the black skill? I've read that is was changed with an update but cannot find the stats anywhere. I currently have a 1/3/0 punisher with a 4th green card in my stash. I was planning on going with a 5/3/5 build originally, but not sure if the black skill got nerfed badly. I use lv 85 Wolvie for green all the time so not sure I would be using it for punisher very much, and the random destruction of tiles isn't very appealing for me. Any help I can get would be appriecated. Thank you.

    More damage, less attack. Looks like 3/5/5 is the better pick

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  • Awesome thx a lot. I agree. I loved the 1 countdown tile, but not so much 2.
  • Have 4 days to decide if I should put 5 in red or not. I'm moving yes if only because the red MIGHT be viable for pve events which is the only place I feel I'd really be.using him. Heck, doesn't even require ISO that way lol. The black, from.what little I've used him, has been more helpful for the initial damage than the tiles. I never use the red but 30% of a 14k enemy is 4.2k (a thor mjolnir is prob better if.you have strike tiles down for.this event). The extra 1.4k might make.it.more.useful there. With wolvie I never use his green though...

    Basically, none.of.his abilities are that great anymore :/ I feel I should just go 3/5/5 because it will likely be the easiest for me.to.finish and be done with him. I think he could pair well with tile deficient teams still though. Mag/punisher/spidey (the def tiles are.usually.just gravy) his green would only have to worry about killing its own tiles and you would be aiming for blue purple mostly anyway. Plus the green could help open up the board to bring in more blue for magneto. Also a plus, is the team wouldn't.have a strong red.which means punisher's red would.be more.viable.

    Somebody force me to use my.red so I stop thinking about it..plz..lol

    Would love to.see them changed his last green to stop being "add a tile" and instead be "aim your shot."would make him better without really buffing him.
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