*** The Punisher (Dark Reign) ***

Unknown

aesthetocyst wrote:

... to continue correcting your misunderstanding of the design of these powers....

Well, just to recap:

Your first argument: To change MNMags you would have to change all these other character too! - Wrong.

Your second argument: This change would make MNMags too OP because you would always get 25 AP! - Wrong.

Funny, you use the term "continue correcting," but you just keep abandoning arguments in hopes of finding one that works. -And you're wrong again, there is no way that on the whole this change would make MNMags weaker (pretty funny that is now your argument since your last argument was that it would make him OP). -The odds of the cd getting matched would only change very slightly if this change were made, and it would be well worth the tradeoff for the better AP collection chances. To be fair, I haven't done the math (and don't plan to), but no one has the cd tile put on the edge and/or bottom and goes "yeah, there is a slightly less chance it will get matched now!"

The increased odds of it getting matched, though minimal, are a factor to be considered (which I did before suggesting the change), but they aren't a good reason to not make the change. You can keep insisting that you understand the game better than others, but I am yet to see you post anything that would justify such a claim, let alone an argument that actually holds up.

jjfyahpowah

Quebbster wrote:

If you feel green and black are lackluster, wouldn't it make more sense to make them better instead of making his third skill overpowered?

Not really. There's plenty in a similar boat.

Just make red more powerful so that opponents have to actively stop him from matching that color.

60% health provides an adequate buffer zone to down him before he can get to that stage. This also plays into his support role (red/green) as a damage sponge until he's downed.

Unknown

Judgement got a fix because Punisher is weak, and destroying more tiles means more damage from cascades in general.

MNMags Magnetic Flux is the way it is specifically because of it's limitations. Otherwise the 5th cover would blow up less area or cost more AP. Further MNMags doesn't need a buff. Finally, science-wise it makes more sense for the magnetic field to be the same range. It doesn't make sense for it to suddenly quadruple in power because the target landed on the corner of a battlefield.

straw men arguments are not worth responding to.

famousfoxking

Rosraf Ro Denn wrote:

None of things you list are as useful in generating AP as MNMags red. So what you propose isn't 'balanced' because detrimental effects of the 'random' placement isn't equal, and what you suggest wouldn't be necessary to fix a simple thing that virtually every player thinks sucks. I don't think a single MPQ player thinks it sucks that you can target Hood yellow or GSBW green to run off the edge.

All I'm saying is, there is no way MNM red is costed with an assumption that it's always going to collect 25 AP AND do 2k damage. They could undoubtedly change the targeting algorithm, but the cost would either have to go way up, the power would have to stop gathering AP, the damage would have to go way down, or (more likely) some combination of the three. If I did my math right, you're going to get an average of 18 AP and 2k damage from any casting. Even with a 1 turn CD, that's a pretty fantastic turn around before you even get to cascade potential.

Ding

jjfyahpowah wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

If you feel green and black are lackluster, wouldn't it make more sense to make them better instead of making his third skill overpowered?

Not really. There's plenty in a similar boat.

Just make red more powerful so that opponents have to actively stop him from matching that color.

60% health provides an adequate buffer zone to down him before he can get to that stage. This also plays into his support role (red/green) as a damage sponge until he's downed.

If they did that they'd have to increase the price to ~15.

Ding

alphabeta wrote:

targetable green would be good but in current hulk event or ultron 40% take down often equates to 10k+ of damage - he's not the best but he's a valuable member of my roster for certain fights

That's why his red is great as a team up. You don't get stuck with pun, but you get his most useful skill.

Malcrof

KK Bundy wrote:

Makes his green targetable like gsbw.

Look at the cost of GSBW green vs Puns, have to make it target-able to justify it. Pun is a burst fighter, shoot and move, shoot and move. Cheap skills that do damage and can be fired off quickly, and he misses quite a bit.

That is his modus operandi.

Black needs a small uppance in damage, 1k would be fine since it has the additional attack tile.
green needs to avoid friendly tiles, damage bonus for destroyed enemy tiles.
Red - fine as is, for 8ap, it can cause some serious hurt.

jjfyahpowah

KK Bundy wrote:

jjfyahpowah wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

If you feel green and black are lackluster, wouldn't it make more sense to make them better instead of making his third skill overpowered?

Not really. There's plenty in a similar boat.

Just make red more powerful so that opponents have to actively stop him from matching that color.

60% health provides an adequate buffer zone to down him before he can get to that stage. This also plays into his support role (red/green) as a damage sponge until he's downed.

If they did that they'd have to increase the price to ~15.

I disagree. Like I've been saying from the start, he needs to be made a viable selectable character.

Quebbster

jjfyahpowah wrote:

KK Bundy wrote:

jjfyahpowah wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

If you feel green and black are lackluster, wouldn't it make more sense to make them better instead of making his third skill overpowered?

Not really. There's plenty in a similar boat.

Just make red more powerful so that opponents have to actively stop him from matching that color.

60% health provides an adequate buffer zone to down him before he can get to that stage. This also plays into his support role (red/green) as a damage sponge until he's downed.

If they did that they'd have to increase the price to ~15.

I disagree. Like I've been saying from the start, he needs to be made a viable selectable character.

I feel he is a viable selectable character. He's my go-to guy for Survival nodes - those drawn out battles where he has time to use Judgement and Molotov over and over again is where he really shines.

Unknown

he has a niche in this game so he's fine, could he use a buff sure, but there's lots worse off characters who need immediate attention

Kolence

Here are some minor tweaks, really just the bolded part is what differs from the current abilities. Maybe also make strike tiles just a tad stronger? I don't know.

Would this make him good enough for this day and age, or would it take some more buffs?

Molotov Cocktail - Black 7
The Punisher lobs a bottle of liquid mayhem. Damages the enemy team for 59 and converts a random basic color tile to a Red Countdown tile that spreads fire every 3 turns, converting a random basic color tile to a 12 damage Attack Tile for each Molotov Countdown on the board.

Level 2: Increases Attack tile damage to 15. Level 3: Increases initial team damage to 89. Level 4: Increases Attack tile damage to 18. Level 5: Reduces Countdown to 2.

Max Level: 783 damage, 78 damage per Attack tile
Judgement - Green 8
The Punisher unloads his arsenal. Destroys all basic color tiles in a random 3x3 area, doing damage but not generating AP. Chaos creates an opening, converting a basic color tile to a strength 12 Strike tile.

Level 2: Increases Strike tile strength to 14.

Destroys enemy Attack tiles.
Level 3: Creates 2 Strike tiles. Destroys enemy Strike tiles.
Level 4: Increases Strike tile strength to 17. Destroys enemy Protect tiles.
Level 5: Creates 3 Strike tiles. Destroys any type of enemy tile.
Max Level: Damage increased by 122 per Strike tile

MarcusGraves

Kolence wrote:

Here are some minor tweaks, really just the bold part is what differs from the current abilities. Maybe also make strike tiles just a tad stronger? I don't know.

Would this make him good enough for this day and age, or would it take some more buffs?

Molotov Cocktail - Black 7
The Punisher lobs a bottle of liquid mayhem. Damages the enemy team for 59 and converts a random basic color tile to a Red Countdown tile that spreads fire every 3 turns, converting a random basic color tile to a 12 damage Attack Tile for each Molotov Countdown on the board.

Level 2: Increases Attack tile damage to 15. Level 3: Increases initial team damage to 89. Level 4: Increases Attack tile damage to 18. Level 5: Reduces Countdown to 2.

Max Level: 783 damage, 78 damage per Attack tile

this is still way too slow, if people want punisher to have a more threatening presence in the game molotov needs to drop one strike tile on the board on cast after the team damage and make it so at rank 5 it drops two strike tiles on the board after 2 turns as well to make the 5/5/3 build more attractive to people.

judgement is fine as it is now with the edge fix they did, 8 cost for 366 in strike tiles plus some board shake isn't bad even if its random and pairs well with molotov.

LambadaDave

Based solely on the current state of his abilities (and not how they can be greatly improved)... what's an ideal build?

The survey puts it at 3/5/5, but has the change to his green radically changed this?

Red is still a 5. That is a niche power, but a good one. The real question is how to best cover the other two colors.

notamutant

LambadaDave wrote:

Based solely on the current state of his abilities (and not how they can be greatly improved)... what's an ideal build?

The survey puts it at 3/5/5, but has the change to his green radically changed this?

Red is still a 5. That is a niche power, but a good one. The real question is how to best cover the other two colors.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter, since he is not a top tier 3 star and would only ever be used for his red, and probably not even that. There are plenty of other strike tile producers these days though, so his green might not be as great anymore.

stochasticism

What change to his green?

simonsez

stochasticism wrote:

What change to his green?

It doesn't shortchange you by busting tiles at the edge anymore

stochasticism

Ah, already knew about that. Didn't know if there was another. I had him at 3/5/5 anyway since I use black for the AOE and it is maxed at 3 so it was a nice bonus but didn't change my build.

Quebbster

I see no reason to change my 3/5/5 build. I like having many strike tiles on the board, it makes everything much better.

Phaserhawk

Pun needs a large quality of life improvement. As long as you have his red maxed you have the best build

Talahamut

I was a strong 5 black supporter since way back when, but with Pun's irrelevance and the power creep in the hitpoints of 4* and 5* there's absolutely no reason not to go 3 black now. Red will be his only useful niche in the future (and really has been for the last year).