*** The Punisher (Dark Reign) ***

CrookedKnight

But you can't do that without reworking the power because now it's not blowing up a 3x3 block anymore (after all, what if there's no 3x3 block without a friendly special, maybe because you've got Blade on your team?). Irregular destruction gives you a better chance of a cascade, does that mean the other aspects of the power have to be toned down to stay balanced? Plus now you can spam Judgment and fill the board with strike tiles where before you were likely to blow up old ones while placing new ones, significantly changing Punisher's long game – which, again, needs to be reflected in the cost of the move and the strength of the tiles it creates.

TLDR: Balancing powers is harder than it might seem at first glance. Especially cheap ones.

jojeda654

Punisher5784 wrote:

CrookedKnight wrote:

Random tiles (and with the smallest return on investment of any AP-generating ability). Targetable Judgment would be like Sniper Rifle, guaranteed to blow up whatever you're aiming at, which I think we can all agree is a cut above Hex Bolt.

But also costs twice as much. Regardless I think we can all agree that Punisher's Green should at least be coded like Beasts so it does not destroy Friendly Tiles.

Hmm, Beast's Blue and Green skills only affect random basic tiles. Are you thinking of Grocket?

Heartburn

Punisher is a master of fire arms as seen here rocking the one handed bazooka hanging off a rope


and here


he is trained killer, that wants to avoid harming innocents. he can't be firing a bazooka all willy nilly around the board it might hit some random person walking down the street, or no!!! not the BABIES!!!!



Don't fire rockets at babies!!!! Make it target able so we can avoid hitting the babies.

Unknown

tanis3303 wrote:

Sooooooo...Phaser has super powers?? At least this one is for good and not evil.

with great power come great.....bans?

Mawtful

Oh, haha. Is it April 1 already?
What an absolute joke.

I'm not sure what the process is here - do I have to convince Phaser to make a thread or can I just list them all here? Who cares, I'll just toss a few out there.

Spider-Man
Web Bandages says "If there are more than 3 Web tiles, he removes them..."

Two issues here:
1. This extra condition should require a minimum of 4 web tiles, since 3 is not more than 3.
2. The web tiles are not removed from the board as per the ability description. Currently it converts web tiles into basic Yellow tiles instead.

Additionally, All Tied Up says "he adds a Yellow Web tile to the board."

Currently this ability does not add any tiles to the board but instead converts a yellow basic tile.

Bullseye & Bag-man
Lethal Improvisation targets 2 Strike, Attack, or Protect tiles. Snarky Remark (Rank 5) affects 2 countdown tiles.

Both abilities specify 2 targeted tiles, however SR cannot be cast if only 1 tile exists, however LI can.

In this case, LI is clearly the broken ability since it would otherwise read "up to 2", right?

Scarlet Witch
Hex Bolt (I know, I know... You only just fixed this but you didn't finish the job) at Rank 5 should destroy "non-friendly" tiles, but incorrectly does not destroy charged tiles created by friendly characters.

Wolverine (Patch)
I'm going to get some hate for this one in particular, so let's do it:

Berserker Rage (rank 5) says it " creates 6 Strike tiles for each team" but often it doesn't. Since it should be creating tiles, not converting basic tiles, shouldn't this always create the full 12 Strike tiles.

Lidolas

Ouch. Not cool. He's been doing this since he was released. It's not news to anybody. Why the urge to 'fix' an 18-month(ish?) old move? I like my special tiles. I like running Frank with Sam and Daken in DPDQ. The damage increase will be minimal. I'd think the devs had better things to do with their time. I hope the forumite with the super-power of putting heroes in the devs' nerf-sites learns his lesson and starts using Line to bring up these issues.

Unknown

Wolverine should indeed say it converts basic tiles to strike, as it states the colors alredy. But I would love to also see the strength of the tiles in the description.

fmftint

Can you do the same for Thing green?

Pylgrim

Nooooo the whole point of punisher is that he makes the battlefield more hostile for the opponent with countdown, strike and attack tiles, but does so very slowly. Now it will destroy even more of his own tiles. Maybe making it targetable is too much, but what about destroying only non-friendly tiles? The ability is somewhat mediocre in raw power terms anyway, so it can stand a small buff.

Who really thought that we /needed/ the ability to always destroy 3x3? The chances of creating a cascade and the additional +/-100 damage are NOT worth the increased, random removal of your own special tiles. The only person who could have thought this was necessary would be someone OCD-y stickler to written parameters and rules even if it means a reduction in fun...

scottee

I don't mind the change. It's a small nerf in my opinion.

But what I don't like is that the devs seem to be making quick changes based on what's being complained about the loudest, not what's a higher priority to gameplay. Parents know that you don't get the kids to stop complaining by giving them what they were complaining about. That just invites more complaining. With other wheels see the squeeky wheel getting greased, they start squeeking too. That's what it looks like when you hot patch an incredibly minor nuisance.

PuceMoose

Hmm... not too wild about the change, but it's not a big deal. If they're convinced to stick with the adjustment, I'd love to see Judgement buff existing friendly Strike and attack tiles (similar to Falcon's inspiration, but limited to strike and attack tiles), so that you get a nice little bonus to those tiles that survive the non-targetable 3x3 destruction. That would also be thematically fitting - Castle taking risks to "draw the noose tighter" on his enemies.

snlf25

jojeda654 wrote:

:shock: Oh shi........

This was the second character that Phaser asked to be fixed. Is Ragnarok next?

OK, It's pretty clear now that phaserhawk is one of the dev's alts and we've been subjected to some mkultra cia psyops cointelpro level trolling here. We need smilies with tin foil hats, a congressional committee and Jesse Ventura to investigate.

yogi_

Mawtful wrote:

Oh, haha. Is it April 1 already?
What an absolute joke.

I'm not sure what the process is here - do I have to convince Phaser to make a thread or can I just list them all here? Who cares, I'll just toss a few out there.

Spider-Man
Web Bandages says "If there are more than 3 Web tiles, he removes them..."

Two issues here:
1. This extra condition should require a minimum of 4 web tiles, since 3 is not more than 3.
2. The web tiles are not removed from the board as per the ability description. Currently it converts web tiles into basic Yellow tiles instead.

Additionally, All Tied Up says "he adds a Yellow Web tile to the board."

Currently this ability does not add any tiles to the board but instead converts a yellow basic tile.

Bullseye & Bag-man
Lethal Improvisation targets 2 Strike, Attack, or Protect tiles. Snarky Remark (Rank 5) affects 2 countdown tiles.

Both abilities specify 2 targeted tiles, however SR cannot be cast if only 1 tile exists, however LI can.

In this case, LI is clearly the broken ability since it would otherwise read "up to 2", right?

Scarlet Witch
Hex Bolt (I know, I know... You only just fixed this but you didn't finish the job) at Rank 5 should destroy "non-friendly" tiles, but incorrectly does not destroy charged tiles created by friendly characters.

Wolverine (Patch)
I'm going to get some hate for this one in particular, so let's do it:

Berserker Rage (rank 5) says it " creates 6 Strike tiles for each team" but often it doesn't. Since it should be creating tiles, not converting basic tiles, shouldn't this always create the full 12 Strike tiles.

This is all very interesting and would be explained by the difference between what the power does and the actual wording. Which should be the same. Which at times, isn't. Which should really have been picked up long ago. Which wasn't - "here, have another new character".

There are other examples in the game too - I've been having a look at some wording related stuff recently.

The easiest "fix" for this is just to change the wording for the power to what happens in game, eg. Patch changes up to 6 basic green tiles to X strength strike tiles...

On the other hand, if you want the power to actually do exactly what it says... that's a different story...

Unknown

Came here actually happy, hoping it would become targetable or at least wouldn't destroy friendly tiles. But of course not...tt seems like a nerf to an already bad character.

It's super infuriating when he destroys his own strike tiles or molotovs, which already take forever to activate at least once and does ridiculous damage even with the strike tiles.
"Yay, i created 3 strike tiles". Later you shoot again and destroys 2 tiles (and probably a previous Molotov) and you realize "Wow, i used 16 AP to create 4 strike tiles. Why didn't i just Call the Storm?"

It also makes him not pair with a lot of characters who have special tiles that you don't want destroyed. And he also doesn't counter them anyway because the area of effect is random.

It's also totally out of flavor with the character. Frank doesn't walk around emptying machine guns and firing rockets randomly without a care in the world where it hits.

Someone said it would be OP if targetable...please. It would actually make the character a bit more useful in certain situations. And my damn tiles could stay on the board.

OzarkBoatswain

I believe 3* Black Widow red (Pistol) has the same issue.

CNash

Pistol is fully targetable, though. If you shoot at the edges and consequently don't destroy all the tiles you could've, that's your fault.

The fact that you're using Pistol in the first place is also (usually) your fault for not bringing along someone with a better red power.

GothicKratos

I feel like this was a simple tweak of applying a piece of code from X-Force to him.

Phaserhawk

tanis3303 wrote:

Sooooooo...Phaser has super powers?? At least this one is for good and not evil.

Apparently

Phaserhawk

Mawtful wrote:

Oh, haha. Is it April 1 already?
What an absolute joke.

I'm not sure what the process is here - do I have to convince Phaser to make a thread or can I just list them all here? Who cares, I'll just toss a few out there.

Spider-Man
Web Bandages says "If there are more than 3 Web tiles, he removes them..."

Two issues here:
1. This extra condition should require a minimum of 4 web tiles, since 3 is not more than 3.
2. The web tiles are not removed from the board as per the ability description. Currently it converts web tiles into basic Yellow tiles instead.

Additionally, All Tied Up says "he adds a Yellow Web tile to the board."

Currently this ability does not add any tiles to the board but instead converts a yellow basic tile.

Bullseye & Bag-man
Lethal Improvisation targets 2 Strike, Attack, or Protect tiles. Snarky Remark (Rank 5) affects 2 countdown tiles.

Both abilities specify 2 targeted tiles, however SR cannot be cast if only 1 tile exists, however LI can.

In this case, LI is clearly the broken ability since it would otherwise read "up to 2", right?

Scarlet Witch
Hex Bolt (I know, I know... You only just fixed this but you didn't finish the job) at Rank 5 should destroy "non-friendly" tiles, but incorrectly does not destroy charged tiles created by friendly characters.

Wolverine (Patch)
I'm going to get some hate for this one in particular, so let's do it:

Berserker Rage (rank 5) says it " creates 6 Strike tiles for each team" but often it doesn't. Since it should be creating tiles, not converting basic tiles, shouldn't this always create the full 12 Strike tiles.

I can answer some of these for you.

Spiderman says in game 3 or more, the text in character compendium is off.

Patch. He cannot overwrite tiles, and he can only put them on green and purple so....if there aren't enough open tiles to put them on he won't get all of them.

Scarlet Witch. She can only destory non-friendly tiles. Charged tiles are not friendly nor non-friendly, they are board neutral since everyone can benefit from them, there she can't destroy them. I personally don't like it, but well it does match with description.

3* Bullseye and Bag-Man are interesting. And I agree with you on that, one of them is right and one is wrong. I personally feel the Bullseye one is correct and should be worded, destroy up to 2 tiles, just like Bag-Man should. The reason being, you are already using the skill less efectively if you are only destroying 1 tile vs. 2 why further penalize by not letting them use the skill, which is where Bag-Man should be tweaked to allow targeting 1 CD, but, well he's a 2* and Bag-Man, when the best build is 4/2/5 you know something is wrong.

Someone had also mentioned MNMags and his red states, destroys a 5x5 or a 3x3 area around the random tile, so the skill is working as intended. The other issue with him is programing, because in order for him to always destroy a 5x5 area a red tile has to be in a small area, if it's not there the skill wouldn't work, where as X-Force and Punisher say destroy an area, and because it is independent of where any color is, it just needs to stay inside the box, MnMags by only going on red limits this, if it was a random color then yes, it should work the same as Pun and X-Force.

Btw, I know there are difference of opinion and I guess it's how you use Punisher's Judgment, if you are using it as a strike tile creator, then yeah sort of a nerf, but if you are looking at him as a board destroyer/cascade with strike tiles as a bonus, then he got better.

Punisher is in need of some tweaks, hopefully with this tweak the devs will see that he could use a bit of a quality of life increase, I would like to see more strike tiles created off of Judgement and maybe a slightly larger area blow up. Red is solid, black needs the most work as it's a weak AoE, and the attack tiles are tied into a CD tile that is slow. I could live with the AoE at current damage if not only did Frank create his CD tile plus an attack tile, but that every time the CD tile resolved it created an attack tile and another CD tile that does the same thing.

Malcrof

Phaserhawk wrote:

Scarlet Witch
Scarlet Witch. She can only destory non-friendly tiles. Charged tiles are not friendly nor non-friendly, they are board neutral since everyone can benefit from them, there she can't destroy them. I personally don't like it, but well it does match with description.

Actually, she does destroy charged tiles just fine, at least the ones created by rags.. those charged greens are easily hit by hex bolt and basically instantly recharges it.


BTW, welcome back.