*** The Punisher (Dark Reign) ***

Unknown

Again guys, 3/5/5 is likely the best build given Frank's current skills.

5 in green is a must. It's arguably his best skill all-around and the one you will use most often. Doesn't matter that he has a random chance to destroy some of his own strike tiles, they are still the strongest in the game (at least until new Wolverine comes out, maybe), and even with multiple uses, you will end up, net-net, with more strike tiles than you started with.

5 black is *not* a must. 5 black takes 1 off the countdown timer of the red tile. As far as I can tell, that's all it does. It does not seem to increase the damage of the initial Molotov toss which is the real value of the skill. The countdown tile is still not a game-changer and as I explained extensively, you need to babysit / micromanage the board before you can even think about putting out your countdown tile. Also, to get the most out of this skill, you will want to have used the green at least once to get the strike tile bonus damage on the Molotov toss. Which, incidentally, is somewhat of another downside to the black. To get the most effect out of the black ability, you cannot use it early!

5 red is not a must, but it's better than 5 black. Killing high-health enemies at 40% health is very nice. As mentioned, 30% vs. 40% isn't a huge difference in practice but it can be a difference maker up against ridiculous PVE enemies (level 240 Ares).

This is coming from a L110 5/5/3 Frank player. I regret my choice of build, but nowhere near enough to rebuild him from scratch. 5 in black isn't that bad but not really worth it. 3 in red is fine but 5 is better. 5 in green is mandatory IMO.

Phaserhawk

Yeah, this is one guy that actually has a big potential of builds. In PvP I don't see his Red being nearly as effective as PvE just due to the fact you won't be seeing ridicuolus HP's from anyone, although, Lightning round it would come in handy. I like the AoE on Black, but the more I think about it, even if the damage from the black tiles was 2x more, it's too slow. I mean lets say you drop your black and it's lvl 5 vs a green lvl 5. next turn I do 113 damage due to my black, but from green I just got 3 tiles that let me do 312 damage for matches. I think 3/5/5 is optimal. The green is too good, and that 40% in Red really helps in some missions with guys with big HP, Black after lvl 3 you get the max damage from the AoE the rest is just for the countdown tiles, it's just nice to have a slow burn for them to deal with, which is what i't's mean for, Dr. Doom is better anyway at this, if you plan on doing this passively get him.

Unknown

Spoit wrote:

_fulu_ wrote:

Spoit wrote:

I'm having trouble figuring out how you do 2k damage a turn with attack tiles, with only 600 coming from strike tiles, since even maxed, his attack tiles are only marginally stronger than his strike tiles...and you get 3 of them per green cast

As I said, I had 4 molotovs pumping out tiles, 2 each turn. I had 16 out at one point, and it was only increasing most turns unless I had to match one.

My point is, the strike tile is applied to every tick of the attacks, so to get a what, 1.4k to 6k ratio, you'd need it to have only a single strike tile being what, only 50 or so?

It's not applied to each tick. All the attack tiles are pooled into.one hit, then the strike tiles are added on.

Unknown

So I'm in a conundrum, I have a 2/2/3 Punsher and I have a red cover for him from this last event and I had plans to make him 5/5/3 but now that I have this extra red cover I'm wondering if I can go 5/3/5 or 3/5/5. I love his othe two skills and plan to run him with my hulk who is 5/3/4 right now and either spidey if he's not nerfed to bad or OBW when I get more covers for her she's 4/4/3 right now (I may have messed her build up). Thoughts?

Edit: after reading more of this thread and looking at the wikia I think it would be best to go 3/5/5. I think having having the extra damage/downing potential of his red out weighs the slight damage increase and faster cooldown of the attack tiles with his black. With all the nerfs flying around it looks like all the other red skills may became less useful anyway and cooldown timers are still a liablity at 2 turns as they are at 3. Plus, chances are I'll be using his black a couple times a match anyway since it only costs 7. Long edit I know.

Spoit

Depending on how bad the spidey nerf is, 2 turn moltovs would be really good, as long as you can keep the other team locked down or at least not destroying the countdown tiles (at that quick, you don't care if the attack tiles get destroyed too much). But yeah, definitely 5 in green

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

Yeah, this is one guy that actually has a big potential of builds. In PvP I don't see his Red being nearly as effective as PvE just due to the fact you won't be seeing ridicuolus HP's from anyone, although, Lightning round it would come in handy. I like the AoE on Black, but the more I think about it, even if the damage from the black tiles was 2x more, it's too slow. I mean lets say you drop your black and it's lvl 5 vs a green lvl 5. next turn I do 113 damage due to my black, but from green I just got 3 tiles that let me do 312 damage for matches. I think 3/5/5 is optimal. The green is too good, and that 40% in Red really helps in some missions with guys with big HP, Black after lvl 3 you get the max damage from the AoE the rest is just for the countdown tiles, it's just nice to have a slow burn for them to deal with, which is what i't's mean for, Dr. Doom is better anyway at this, if you plan on doing this passively get him.

I agree, if you think about it waiting 1 turn isn't that big of a deal but if you relying on the CD tile to pump out enough attack tiles you are either letting the match go on for to long thus taking to much damage or restricting yourself to much due to protecting the CD tile or both. Its more practical to leave black at 3 and focus on building strike tiles, making good matchs, and downing your opponent as fast as you can. If you can manage to get a few attack tiles then great but I don't think they should be relyed on.

Unknown

I'm already have 4/5/3 punisher. What's better 5/5/3 or 4/5/4?

Unknown

3/5/5 is the only way to go in my opinion. Most of the damage I pick up from molotov cocktail comes from the inital strike and most of that damage is augmented by wolverine strike tiles anyway, so I see no need to go beyond level 3.

I like how green shakes up the board when it gets staganant and level 5 gives you 3 strike tiles which will accumulate a ton more damage than a 3 turn attack tile generator.

One shot kills when opponents drops below 40% max health is a lifesaver in the high level Hunt missions, and can speed up victories in PVP events

Went 3/5/5 with no regrets.

Unknown

I really like the fast growing burn from the maxed out Molotov ability. It has won me plenty of matches where I was barely hanging on by stun-locking with spirderman

Kiamodo

adamLmpq wrote:

I really like the fast growing burn from the maxed out Molotov ability. It has won me plenty of matches where I was barely hanging on by stun-locking with spirderman

Completely agree. You do a judgement and follow it up with some cocktails. Crazy damage to the whole team. Glad I went 5 black and 5 green.

Unknown

Fallenloki wrote:

I'm already have 4/5/3 punisher. What's better 5/5/3 or 4/5/4?

You might as well go 5/5/3. Bringing any of his skills to only 4 is a waste.

Puritas

adamLmpq wrote:

I really like the fast growing burn from the maxed out Molotov ability. It has won me plenty of matches where I was barely hanging on by stun-locking with spirderman

yea but stunlock spiderman prolly not gonna be a thing in a few weeks :X

Unknown

someguy wrote:

Again guys, 3/5/5 is likely the best build given Frank's current skills.

5 in green is a must. It's arguably his best skill all-around and the one you will use most often. Doesn't matter that he has a random chance to destroy some of his own strike tiles, they are still the strongest in the game (at least until new Wolverine comes out, maybe), and even with multiple uses, you will end up, net-net, with more strike tiles than you started with.

5 black is *not* a must. 5 black takes 1 off the countdown timer of the red tile. As far as I can tell, that's all it does. It does not seem to increase the damage of the initial Molotov toss which is the real value of the skill. The countdown tile is still not a game-changer and as I explained extensively, you need to babysit / micromanage the board before you can even think about putting out your countdown tile. Also, to get the most out of this skill, you will want to have used the green at least once to get the strike tile bonus damage on the Molotov toss. Which, incidentally, is somewhat of another downside to the black. To get the most effect out of the black ability, you cannot use it early!

5 red is not a must, but it's better than 5 black. Killing high-health enemies at 40% health is very nice. As mentioned, 30% vs. 40% isn't a huge difference in practice but it can be a difference maker up against ridiculous PVE enemies (level 240 Ares).

This is coming from a L110 5/5/3 Frank player. I regret my choice of build, but nowhere near enough to rebuild him from scratch. 5 in black isn't that bad but not really worth it. 3 in red is fine but 5 is better. 5 in green is mandatory IMO.

Thank You for that. I came to this topic to ask for advice - black or green? I was sitting on one green cover and I just used it - Frank is now 3/4/4, and I plan to make him 3/5/5.

5 in red is mandatory for 1 simple reason - no matter Frank's lvl, he hits hard with it. Not to mention this cool animation, imho the best in the game (but I'm the Punisher fanboy...)
And Molotov, as much as I like it, should be treated only as a bonus skill, not something which You build around.

mouser

Read through the entire thread, and the more I think about it I've also come to the conclusion that 5 red is mandatory. I think some of the earlier posts in the thread oversimplify the benefit as just being 1k-2k on the really big HP enemies. The critical thing to me is that translates into the ability to use it 1 or more turns earlier. It also provides an extra safety margin in the PVE battles against 200+ level teams where you can grind one target down to 40% health (or higher if you have other attacks in reserve), then start grinding the next target knowing that you have the kill in pocket if the first target reaches AP threshold on a dangerous skill. Those are both very valuable things to have in the big PVE boss fights where my experience has been that a single turn is frequently the difference between winning and losing.

I'm not sure what Frank's long term popularity will be in PVP contests. But I can see a long future as a utility guy in PVE for certain.

Planning to do my Frank up as 3/5/5 unless I find some new compelling reason to change that soon. Which is unfortunate as mine is currently at 3/3/2 and the only cover I have in storage is a black one.

Unknown

mouser wrote:

Read through the entire thread, and the more I think about it I've also come to the conclusion that 5 red is mandatory. I think some of the earlier posts in the thread oversimplify the benefit as just being 1k-2k on the really big HP enemies. The critical thing to me is that translates into the ability to use it 1 or more turns earlier. It also provides an extra safety margin in the PVE battles against 200+ level teams where you can grind one target down to 40% health (or higher if you have other attacks in reserve), then start grinding the next target knowing that you have the kill in pocket if the first target reaches AP threshold on a dangerous skill. Those are both very valuable things to have in the big PVE boss fights where my experience has been that a single turn is frequently the difference between winning and losing.

I'm not sure what Frank's long term popularity will be in PVP contests. But I can see a long future as a utility guy in PVE for certain.

Planning to do my Frank up as 3/5/5 unless I find some new compelling reason to change that soon. Which is unfortunate as mine is currently at 3/3/2 and the only cover I have in storage is a black one.

I agree and have a 3/5/5. I'm shocked you have the fewest in red though. Red is by far the most common cover. I've sold at least 5 of them.

For people with high level Punishers, how are you liking him. To be perfectly honest, my 3/5/5 lvl 90 is kind of disappointing right now. He's obviously playing the sustained damage role with strike tiles and cocktail alongside my 90 spidey and 100 mag but I find just using wolverine in his place is more effective. Does he start to take off more at higher levels than 90?

Unknown

entropic01 wrote:

mouser wrote:

Read through the entire thread, and the more I think about it I've also come to the conclusion that 5 red is mandatory. I think some of the earlier posts in the thread oversimplify the benefit as just being 1k-2k on the really big HP enemies. The critical thing to me is that translates into the ability to use it 1 or more turns earlier. It also provides an extra safety margin in the PVE battles against 200+ level teams where you can grind one target down to 40% health (or higher if you have other attacks in reserve), then start grinding the next target knowing that you have the kill in pocket if the first target reaches AP threshold on a dangerous skill. Those are both very valuable things to have in the big PVE boss fights where my experience has been that a single turn is frequently the difference between winning and losing.

I'm not sure what Frank's long term popularity will be in PVP contests. But I can see a long future as a utility guy in PVE for certain.

Planning to do my Frank up as 3/5/5 unless I find some new compelling reason to change that soon. Which is unfortunate as mine is currently at 3/3/2 and the only cover I have in storage is a black one.

I agree and have a 3/5/5. I'm shocked you have the fewest in red though. Red is by far the most common cover. I've sold at least 5 of them.

For people with high level Punishers, how are you liking him. To be perfectly honest, my 3/5/5 lvl 90 is kind of disappointing right now. He's obviously playing the sustained damage role with strike tiles and cocktail alongside my 90 spidey and 100 mag but I find just using wolverine in his place is more effective. Does he start to take off more at higher levels than 90?

What's neat is if you have punisher, storm, and GSBW on a team, it doesn't take long to obliterate an opponent. There's a lot of flexibility in dealing AoE damage. Boosts make it fun

eidehua

Well wolvie 2* is getting changed soon

While a buffed punisher won't get the benefit towards the % in his red skill, his base damage is not that bad at all for the ap cost, and that portion will be buffed.

NorthernPolarity

entropic01 wrote:

mouser wrote:

Read through the entire thread, and the more I think about it I've also come to the conclusion that 5 red is mandatory. I think some of the earlier posts in the thread oversimplify the benefit as just being 1k-2k on the really big HP enemies. The critical thing to me is that translates into the ability to use it 1 or more turns earlier. It also provides an extra safety margin in the PVE battles against 200+ level teams where you can grind one target down to 40% health (or higher if you have other attacks in reserve), then start grinding the next target knowing that you have the kill in pocket if the first target reaches AP threshold on a dangerous skill. Those are both very valuable things to have in the big PVE boss fights where my experience has been that a single turn is frequently the difference between winning and losing.

I'm not sure what Frank's long term popularity will be in PVP contests. But I can see a long future as a utility guy in PVE for certain.

Planning to do my Frank up as 3/5/5 unless I find some new compelling reason to change that soon. Which is unfortunate as mine is currently at 3/3/2 and the only cover I have in storage is a black one.

I agree and have a 3/5/5. I'm shocked you have the fewest in red though. Red is by far the most common cover. I've sold at least 5 of them.

For people with high level Punishers, how are you liking him. To be perfectly honest, my 3/5/5 lvl 90 is kind of disappointing right now. He's obviously playing the sustained damage role with strike tiles and cocktail alongside my 90 spidey and 100 mag but I find just using wolverine in his place is more effective. Does he start to take off more at higher levels than 90?

Also dont forget that wolvie is going to be nerfed soon. When that happens, punisher is probably going to be the 3* wolvie replacement (moreso than the actual 3* wolvie, it feels like)

Unknown

Still very torn on a build here. I'm 3/5/3 and just got 1 more cover of each from the first Divine Champions run. I used green to get to 5 but time to commit to black or red. I had originally wanted 5/5/3 since the red skill did not impress me much but after reading all the comments in this thread I can see where being able to down at 40% might be nice. I think it all comes down to how the nerfs turn out since the "others have a better red skill" argument does not hold up when these guys are all getting reduced but there ARE better red skills out there... sigh.

So - math time... 40% of 5000 would be 2000 (instead of 30% - 1500). In buffed tournaments you could end up with folks double that so would be able to do perhaps 4000 (instead of 3000) damage. Of course using him in a buffed tournament may be counter productive unless he is buffed too. Most opponents are closer to 3000 health so then we are looking at 1200 at 40% (instead of 900) - not a big deal. His normal damage is not so great - what level do you need to be to get 1000 damage not buffed? I'm 40 now and would get 504 if I go to level 4. Conclusion - not sure...

The black skill with new tiles going off every 2 turns instead of 3 and with increased damage (how significant is the level 4 bump?) can really load up the board with dot. I am guessing that Wolvie will get neutered to the point where Punisher is the better dot guy so it may be worth maxing out his dot ability. Also like that he has a viable black skill which is rare. Conclusion - still not sure...

Anyway, more blah blah blah but no conclusion. Guess that means that either choice would be ok. If I think of Punisher as a dot specialist to replace Wolvie after he gets put down then black may be the answer. If I think red is going to be destroyed to the point of uselessness for most and Punisher is more of a giant slayer then red. Oh well, hopefully I'll be able to make up my mind before the covers expire in my cache

Unknown

For people who have replaced 2* wolv w/ punisher - how do you feel? I currently have a 77 - 3/5/2 punisher and I pair him w/ a 63 - 5/3/5 2* wolvie.
wolv's green cost of 3 is just too effective to ever use punisher for me.

What am I missing? There are very few times w/ Punisher that I get enough green to cast judgement without already accumulating some red - At that point, it'd be better to just spam feral claws.

Currently wolv's feral claw creates a 66? strike tile vs Punishers 64. (mind you punisher has 14 levels on wolvie..)

The only scenario I don't see this being better is if I hadn't accumulated any red, I am desperate to clear a countdown tile and want to get lucky, or there are no red tiles available to be converted to strike.

Thoughts?