True Healing Discussion (Live 6/25)

1252628303171

Comments

  • A quick word on character diversity.

    I got my 10-pack for the season today. In it, I received 10 2* covers. Not a single one of them is anything I would consider using in any event. Even if you nerf OBW, Ares, and Thor, I still would not consider them because they are beyond abysmal.

    Food for thought.
  • ZeiramMR wrote:
    Apologies if this has already been suggested:

    When these changes go live, could the City environment's Hot Dog Stand be made to use "True Healing" instead of the temporary healing? It's currently a very weak power, and doing this would give a slight bump while being way too impractical for players to abuse. It does sound like the healing changes would be coming before environment power re-balancing.

    Either way, as a healing effect, it should have a test case or two on your development servers when you test the upcoming change.
    Unless they change the effect to heal a percentage instead of 50 hp, it's not even worth considering. 50hp is nothing. If it healed 10% of max health then that would be something useful.
  • HailMary
    HailMary Posts: 2,179
    bonfire01 wrote:
    From my experience with online games (primarily MMOs) there's unrest on the forums, people chime in that forum users are the minority and forum posters are an even smaller minority, unrest continues, the game loses a load of subs, hello free to play MMO!

    Polls work by representative sampling. When they do opinion polls in the UK (where i'm from) they'll poll 7000 people and claim >90% accuracy for the entire country of 60 million. They would KILL for a 0.07% sample (if we are truly 7k out of 100k).

    So i'll say the same thing I say every time.... unless you are convinced forumites are a bunch of seriously abnormal weirdos (remember YOU are a forumite icon_mrgreen.gif ) then ignoring prevailing opinion, ESPECIALLY when so one sided is a massive mistake.
    Fair enough about the MMO point. I've never played MMOs, so I have no knowledge about such user-retention trends.

    Again, most of those 7,000 registered forumites aren't railing against this change. Within this representative sample, maybe 2% have voiced active opposition to the change. If we simply go by these crude numbers, that firmly rates the change as "totes not terrible."

    We active forumites are abnormal. A "normal" person likely wouldn't devote time to posting about (or even reading about) ever-changing metagame optimizations for "Iron Man meets Bejeweled on the iPhone." Such abnormality isn't bad in any way, but it's still abnormal.

    There's a lot of selection bias here, much like how some university psych studies don't actually address "how do people react to so-and-so," but rather "how do college students who have free time and want to do weird stuff for money react to so-and-so"? Further, negativity always disproportionately overshadows positivity in forums. A quick look at the League of Legends forums will confirm this: there are quite a lot of rant threads considering it's one of the most popular and successful F2P games in existence.

    I seriously want to be convinced that we do in fact speak for the general playerbase, or that forum rage threads represent the opinions of most registered forumites, because then the constant raging could actually be meaningful, and not simply embarrassing (constructive "this sucks because of these reasons, that other thing is better for those reasons" raging excepted). However, I don't see that we do represent any significant portion of the general playerbase, or even the paying playerbase.
  • over_clocked
    over_clocked Posts: 3,961
    1) wait so we live in a world where people expect 2* characters to beat 3* regularly? That is madness. To make the transition from 2* to 3*, you really gotta be finished w 2* level (almost everyone is all "I have 1-3 maxed 2*, where are my 3*?") If you max out all your 2*, it will be super easy to save iso going forward to keep all 3* softcapped
    3) ask any elite player (1100+ pts) who used spidey 100% of the time if they like the dynamics of the game better now & I would bet at least 2/3 says its better now. healing characters are so slow. slow = death from external attacks while you play. concentrate on actually killing your opposition fast & you won't lose health. I know that sounds obvious but many/most players have weird roster designs. Like xforce lvl90 as their top character or strong max cover guys w no levels on them (i dont know how many lvl40 355 LT i have seen but there shouldn't be any. level LT fast in case you do not already know lol)
    5) this will not affect top players at all. literally. Let me explain for perspective. most top players (1100+) have big rosters & can rotate guys easily. Most of them have patch and/or LD. anytime a top player sees a 2* team early in pvp, the decision process goes "i can win in 1-2 min at most, are they worth enough points?'". Like in hotshot, I am running 212 HT, 141 BP, 141 LT. Theres no 2* team that can beat me (not trying to boast but I have put a lot of playing time into those guys and wanted to make a team that can hold up). My team is pretty standard for 1100+.
    1) I did not say 'beat', I said 'compete'. No one in their right mind should max Moonstone, mHawkeye, Cap**, Bag-Man, Bullseye if they maxed the rest of 2*s already. I only maxed MMN recently because he's really useful sometimes unlike those, and I have played long enough to max all 2*s by now. I choose not to and advise to any 2* player not to waste their ISO on these characters unless they receive buffs. Even Daken is seriously questionable (but mStorm/non-maxed oBW/Daken can work as a good transition team for 1*s).
    3) healing might not be strong gameplay but almost nothing in the game can stay strong gameplay for longer than a week or two of learning and adapting, unless you like giving love to the odd ones: Daredevil, Doom, Loki, Moonstone, etc. and don't mind getting torn apart in PvP.
    5) good luck climbing to 1100 against 3* teams alone starting with as early as 500-600 points. Less points 2*s are able to make = less points for 'top' players, too.
  • what they should do to fix healing w "true healing" is this:
    sell extra health packs slots to a maximum of 10. each slot could cost between 200-500 hp apiece.
    win win for eveyone
    10 health packs should be more than enough unless you dont understand match 3 games lol
    going from 5 to 10 slots does not really confer a "huge" advantage to pay to win people & it can easily be saved for nowadays

    thoughts?
  • 1) all 2* players are affect equally, so you're not worse off compared to each other

    No. After discussion with other 2* players of my team :
    - some of them can easily play in PvP because never attacked by 141s up to 500/600 points,
    - others should always skip half of their oponents to be sure to have one of the same level but the points attributed are ridiculous (< 10),
    - some others cannot reach 600 points, for example me, when I am over 500, the time needed to obtain 20 points in ONE fight, I am attacked by 3 other players and lose 30 !
    2) as far as the transition from 2* to 3*, the key is ISO. Like lots of it. Soft cap everyone on your roster. Play every lightning round to farm ISO. Play in the trainer a lot to farm ISO. That's the key. Not your placement in PvP every time (obviously get good placements when you "need" a specific good cover). Just earn lots of ISO. Use the ISO to level everyone up & to buy ISO priced ap boosts for end times in PvP for better finishes

    No... the key is Covers ! We are plenty of 2* players full of ISO (100k, 200k, 300k etc...), but waiting for other covers. My only use of ISO at the moment is for boost to avoid to be too much hurt by a death cascade or something like that, or to be sure to finish OBW or Storm** before being stolen or killed by the blue power of Storm**. Hence I have more than 120k of ISO.
    I noticed that the key is ISO for 3* players that can have covers very easily or 300/400 HP / week. Don't think that 2* players are in the same mood.
    3) this loss of healing will make you a better player in the long run because you will have to learn to play smarter to succeed. Also all 5 health packs come back in 2.5hr & all 2* will heal within 3 hrs or so

    No. Ares and Thor need more than 5h.
    I think that the 2* players waiting for transition from 2* to 3* since a couple of months are expert in smart play. They probably know everything Thor/Ares/OBW/Magneto/Wolverine and can play with eyes closed. So thanks for that but I think that I know how to play a Match-3 game.
    5) remember it's a an online game. Stuff changes & you gotta adjust. In this case it's something that affects everyone except for the top players who have tons of 141s, so life will mostly be the same

    Don't agree, 2* will be more affect, because to win 3* covers in events especially PvP, we have to play a lot (because we are attacked by 3*), what will be impossible in the future if OBW cannot heal anymore, the transition 2* => 3* will be even more long !
    5) it affects top players, too! surprise! who are they going to snipe points now from, if 2*s can't play in a prolonged fashion anymore?

    icon_e_biggrin.gif You make me laugh a lot !
  • hurcules
    hurcules Posts: 519
    So...when is this "feature" due to be implemented?
  • PPPlaya wrote:
    tl;dr: People like to spend small amounts a lot of time rather than to spend a huge amount at once. Pay a Dollar, look at a duck.

    IMO people like to spend money in game they stick to and enjoy continually. And see its future too.

    I doubt players made HULK SMASH angry over changes they did not want -- plus lack of changes they do want -- would queue up to spend more. Or spend at all really.

    We had a lot of good ideas in the suggestion section from alliance HQ to cosmetics and whatever. I'm sure if implemented at the time they would have provided good income. In this stage I doubt even that would work until the game turned back to some sensible direction.

    I still keep wondering WHY really. Was it really hijacked by a fuhrer-type designer resembling my mother in law? Or everyone with sense already jumped the ship and the rest just keeps coasting in every random direction?
  • My guess is that they want to stick to a business model for shareholders' purposes or something.

    Bad decisions like this tend to come from that kind of strategy. The shareholder does not care about you as a customer. He just wants kick cash for his investment.

    IMO, the cash machine goes too fast, and not listening to customers will not help.

    IceIX was playing, so he could know what the problems were.

    Some companies need to crush to the wall to change their strategy. We'll just have to wait and see.
  • HailMary wrote:
    TL:DR?
    Developers of MPQ and their publishers are:
    + greedy incompentent liars, that are not one bit near their customer base?!


    The game was already declining in popularity because of your doubtful decisions. Now it is in free falling!
    icon_exclaim.gificon_exclaim.gificon_exclaim.gif Change it before it is too late! icon_exclaim.gificon_exclaim.gificon_exclaim.gif

    Yes, this is clearly an effective way to encourage the devs to listen to anything you say... at all... in the slightest.

    Well, unfortunately it is exactly as effective as any other way we tried and probably also as whatever else remains... so then why not just be direct? Or you see more room to ignore the player base?
  • locked wrote:
    1) I did not say 'beat', I said 'compete'. No one in their right mind should max Moonstone, mHawkeye, Cap**, Bag-Man, Bullseye if they maxed the rest of 2*s already. I only maxed MMN recently because he's really useful sometimes unlike those, and I have played long enough to max all 2*s by now. I choose not to and advise to any 2* player not to waste their ISO on these characters unless they receive buffs. Even Daken is seriously questionable (but mStorm/non-maxed oBW/Daken can work as a good transition team for 1*s).

    Small quibble: mHawkeye is currently doing *work* for me in heroic Juggernaut. 2400 damage to the entire enemy team. I've paired him with a 1 yellow cover IM40 to feed red and tank. It probably wouldn't work with high scaling, but since my GSBW and HT are too low-level to be useful at the moment, I'm happy I have him. Likewise, 2* cap isn't terrible when he's buffed for heroics.
  • It also amuses me how this change supposed to allow me to play "at my pace".

    Given:
    I have 3 hours free and rest of the day busy.

    Now:
    I get in the game and through carefully keeping team alive and healing play battles and progress all 3 hours.

    After:
    I lose enough health to have team dead after 3-4 battles in 15 minutes, add another 20 because I can revive with regen packs. So, after 35 minutes I get presented with "Fu... nbalance you, go wait 5 hours" screen, the rest of my free time can't be used on game and if I want to stay competitive I MUST come back and intervals set by YOU.

    How the hell it is playing "at MY pace"?
  • _RiO_
    _RiO_ Posts: 1,047 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2014
    rowaasr13 wrote:
    It also amuses me how this change supposed to allow me to play "at my pace".

    Given:
    I have 3 hours free and rest of the day busy.

    Now:
    I get in the game and through carefully keeping team alive and healing play battles and progress all 3 hours.

    After:
    I lose enough health to have team dead after 3-4 battles in 15 minutes, add another 20 because I can revive with regen packs. So, after 35 minutes I get presented with "Fu... nbalance you, go wait 5 hours" screen, the rest of my free time can't be used on game and if I want to stay competitive I MUST come back and intervals set by YOU.

    How the hell it is playing "at MY pace"?

    QFE.

    This change basically kills any and all possibility for players of the Steam version of the game to achieve any kind of worthwhile ranking. Steam players rely on one big chunk of time in the evening, with at most one additional small chunk in the early mornings to compete. (You don't normally carry your home PC with you wherever you go to break it out every 1 or 2 hours for a quick match or 2, now do you?) Steam players need to use healing characters to make that work.
    And removing permanent healing essentially BREAKS THE GAME FOR THEM.

    If this change goes through without further mitigative measures, you might as well pull the game from Steam, because it will sink quicker than you can spell "monetization gone wrong".

    So, if you are adament in pushing through this change, then either you segregate the two player bases or you give Steam players a larger collection of regenerating health packs than the mobile players to make up for the loss of the healing mechanic. That would be one of the few ways to make this whole sordid, stupid, moronic, <insert whatever other expletive you desire> idea turn out fair for all parties involved.

    The other would be to allow something like 15 free health packs and instantly regenerate them all after some 20 odd hours (i.e. when a new day rolls over, give or take a few hours of margin for differing play times). Then nobody gets to take advantage of intermittent regeneration of health packs.
  • over_clocked
    over_clocked Posts: 3,961
    Small quibble: mHawkeye is currently doing *work* for me in heroic Juggernaut. 2400 damage to the entire enemy team. I've paired him with a 1 yellow cover IM40 to feed red and tank. It probably wouldn't work with high scaling, but since my GSBW and HT are too low-level to be useful at the moment, I'm happy I have him. Likewise, 2* cap isn't terrible when he's buffed for heroics.
    For one AP more, cStorm does 2420 to enemy team with the buff and stuns targeted enemy for 3-4 turns depending on your build. No countdowns that get destroyed!
  • The way a suit looks at it, every time you use a heal power it costs D3 about $0.10. I don't know the exact number, but I guarantee there was a meeting where something almost exactly like that was said, it was made "priority one to fix".

    Future state: Stupid developers must have done it wrong, where is all the sweet sweet money that was going to roll in now that healing is removed?

    Suits ruin games.
  • Even with the changes in regen time, I don't quite get why characters take hours to go from zero back to full health. If it takes 30 mins for 1 health pack to regenerate (correct me if I'm wrong), what is the point of that waiting time if you already had the health pack to heal the character anyway?
  • vayhle wrote:
    The way a suit looks at it, every time you use a heal power it costs D3 about $0.10. I don't know the exact number, but I guarantee there was a meeting where something almost exactly like that was said, it was made "priority one to fix".

    Future state: Stupid developers must have done it wrong, where is all the sweet sweet money that was going to roll in now that healing is removed?

    Suits ruin games.

    Very well put. OTOH you need the usual bunch of suck-up guys on the team for it to actually happen. A well-minded developer who cares about the game and integrity would just refuse breaking changes.

    Yes, it DOES happen actually IRL, just is rare as it's way easier to bend in the wind and just pick up the salary obeying whatever **** orders and wash hands.

    Anyone has only as much power over you as you actually grant willingly. A position or a suit does not create any power -- just happen to get it automatically from the slave-minded.
  • _RiO_ wrote:
    So, if you are adament in pushing through this change, then either you segregate the two player bases or you give Steam players a larger collection of regenerating health packs than the mobile players to make up for the loss of the healing mechanic. That would be one of the few ways to make this whole sordid, stupid, moronic, <insert whatever other expletive you desire> idea turn out fair for all parties involved.

    Or they should have done the other obvious thing and allow me to play on both Steam and my phone using the same account.
  • DD-The-Mighty
    DD-The-Mighty Posts: 350 Mover and Shaker
    Sumilea wrote:
    _RiO_ wrote:
    So, if you are adament in pushing through this change, then either you segregate the two player bases or you give Steam players a larger collection of regenerating health packs than the mobile players to make up for the loss of the healing mechanic. That would be one of the few ways to make this whole sordid, stupid, moronic, <insert whatever other expletive you desire> idea turn out fair for all parties involved.

    Or they should have done the other obvious thing and allow me to play on both Steam and my phone using the same account.
    B-but thats too much woooork......!
This discussion has been closed.