True Healing Discussion (Live 6/25)

over_clocked

Nice sentiment, johnaaron (even if the facts may not be true).

I don't get it how the heal rate change benefits 3* players. We are assuming that healthpacks should be used on tanks since they take forever to heal no matter what. Let's say my 5800 health Punisher gets badly hurt (not downed even); he will recover some 1440 health in an hour but in an hour I will be able to apply a healthpack and fully heal him, too. In 10 minutes I will have another healthpack ready. I don't get this change at all for 3* players. Could someone explain the reason to be joyous about it?

over_clocked

Nemek wrote:

SnowcaTT wrote:

IceIX wrote:

Adding this to the OP as well.


- Characters with significant regenerative powers: Wolverine, Daken, Spider-Man, Hulk, and She-Hulk regain health at double the rate.[/list]

Interesting that only OBW was left off this list as not having "regenerative powers", even though earlier she was listed with She-Hulk and Spider-Man as those with "abilities are considered temporary healing"

That's more in reference to a character's own canonical self-regenerative powers. I'm not terribly well versed in Black Widow canon, but I imagine she's very much human and exhibits typical human healing.

For all I know, Black Widow originated as a Super-Soldier (based on Captain America's serum, but a little bit different), therefore should have some restricted healing factor.
In the movies she appears to be a regular human though.

Unknown

As a long time player & someone who wins a lot, I'll recap what I wrote in another thread about this

1) all 2* players are affect equally, so you're not worse off compared to each other
2) as far as the transition from 2* to 3*, the key is ISO. Like lots of it. Soft cap everyone on your roster. Play every lightning round to farm ISO. Play in the trainer a lot to farm ISO. That's the key. Not your placement in PvP every time (obviously get good placements when you "need" a specific good cover). Just earn lots of ISO. Use the ISO to level everyone up & to buy ISO priced ap boosts for end times in PvP for better finishes
3) this loss of healing will make you a better player in the long run because you will have to learn to play smarter to succeed. Also all 5 health packs come back in 2.5hr & all 2* will heal within 3 hrs or so
4) find a venue (this board, big alliances, FB pages etc) to find good players to help you by answering questions
5) remember it's a an online game. Stuff changes & you gotta adjust. In this case it's something that affects everyone except for the top players who have tons of 141s, so life will mostly be the same

Unknown

locked wrote:

Nice sentiment, johnaaron (even if the facts may not be true).

I don't get it how the heal rate change benefits 3* players. We are assuming that healthpacks should be used on tanks since they take forever to heal no matter what. Let's say my 5800 health Punisher gets badly hurt (not downed even); he will recover some 1440 health in an hour but in an hour I will be able to apply a healthpack and fully heal him, too. In 10 minutes I will have another healthpack ready. I don't get this change at all for 3* players. Could someone explain the reason to be joyous about it?

It's a net bonus for 3* because it takes slightly less ridiculous time for them to heal to full compared to before. 3* characters, especially tanky ones like Thor or Hulk, already have far too many HP for all but the most dedicated/insane to heal with prologue healing.

over_clocked

JoshBot3000 wrote:

As a long time player & someone who wins a lot, I'll recap what I wrote in another thread about this

1) all 2* players are affect equally, so you're not worse off compared to each other
2) as far as the transition from 2* to 3*, the key is ISO. Like lots of it. Soft cap everyone on your roster. Play every lightning round to farm ISO. Play in the trainer a lot to farm ISO. That's the key. Not your placement in PvP every time (obviously get good placements when you "need" a specific good cover). Just earn lots of ISO. Use the ISO to level everyone up & to buy ISO priced ap boosts for end times in PvP for better finishes
3) this loss of healing will make you a better player in the long run because you will have to learn to play smarter to succeed. Also all 5 health packs come back in 2.5hr & all 2* will heal within 3 hrs or so
4) find a venue (this board, big alliances, FB pages etc) to find good players to help you by answering questions
5) remember it's a an online game. Stuff changes & you gotta adjust. In this case it's something that affects everyone except for the top players who have tons of 141s, so life will mostly be the same

1) yeah, but they will be able to compete with 3*s even less than they can now
2) winning in training will kitty up your MMR and I'm serious
3) what doesn't kill me, makes me stronger? thanks! I thought we were playing a match-3 game!
4) the most needed thing to know is how to tank and that knowledge now is seemingly sacred even here
5) it affects top players, too! surprise! who are they going to snipe points now from, if 2*s can't play in a prolonged fashion anymore?

Phantron, it's still much easier to use a healthpack on them than wait more than half an hour.

HailMary

johnaaron33 wrote:

So please stop discounting our feedback because "we are such small numbers". Small numbers mean nothing when you are talking about THOUSANDS of players who are inputting feedback.

There are thousands of registered players, yes.

However, there are perhaps a hundred, at best, who are chiming in on this issue. I'd say that maybe half of them regularly use OBW in PVP.

TheGoodBadWeird wrote:

TL:DR?
Developers of MPQ and their publishers are:
+ greedy incompentent liars, that are not one bit near their customer base?!

The game was already declining in popularity because of your doubtful decisions. Now it is in free falling!
Change it before it is too late!

Yes, this is clearly an effective way to encourage the devs to listen to anything you say... at all... in the slightest.

Unknown

JoshBot3000 wrote:

As a long time player & someone who wins a lot, I'll recap what I wrote in another thread about this

1) all 2* players are affect equally, so you're not worse off compared to each other

It's quite baffling that although OBW is likely the most commonly seen character until you hit the 'broken' tier of opponents, people seem to be awfully convinced that an indirect nerf to her healing will adversely impact your ability to play but all those OBW teams out there that you normally face is completely unaffected.

The only way the healing nerf would affect people is if there's some kind of new meta game emerging with another character that satisfy the following requirements:

1. Is widely available (e.g. Sentry is probably better than OBW, but if you have Sentry you'd have already used him).
2. Is cumulatively stronger than OBW on defense + offense. Keep in mind OBW loses nothing on defense despite this nerf, because the defense team obviously don't care about true healing or not to begin with.

I'm hard pressed to think of what commonly available character can possibly fill this role, and as long as this role isn't filled, you'll still see a whole mess of OBWs until you run into the totally broken guys, and if everyone is still using her, nobody is disadvantaged.

Unknown

JoshBot3000 wrote:

As a long time player & someone who wins a lot, I'll recap what I wrote in another thread about this

1) all 2* players are affect equally, so you're not worse off compared to each other
2) as far as the transition from 2* to 3*, the key is ISO. Like lots of it. Soft cap everyone on your roster. Play every lightning round to farm ISO. Play in the trainer a lot to farm ISO. That's the key. Not your placement in PvP every time (obviously get good placements when you "need" a specific good cover). Just earn lots of ISO. Use the ISO to level everyone up & to buy ISO priced ap boosts for end times in PvP for better finishes
3) this loss of healing will make you a better player in the long run because you will have to learn to play smarter to succeed. Also all 5 health packs come back in 2.5hr & all 2* will heal within 3 hrs or so
4) find a venue (this board, big alliances, FB pages etc) to find good players to help you by answering questions
5) remember it's a an online game. Stuff changes & you gotta adjust. In this case it's something that affects everyone except for the top players who have tons of 141s, so life will mostly be the same

1) true
2) Half true. You make it sound like getting a decent number (10+) of covers for a given 3* is easy. It isn't (unless you already have a load of 3*s and can get pvp top 5 placements with a top 100 alliance but then you don't need them)
3) Doubtful IMO. It's a match 3 game... I mean come on..... how "good" can you be at a match 3 game? Don't miss 4/5 matches and cascades? Are people THAT bad that they can improve by an appreciable amount? I seriously doubt it.
4) Good advice
5) Not true at all IMO. Firstly it affects everyone except ppl willing to pay for health packs. Much less impactful on people with large 141 rosters though (doubt it'll affect me much at all) but still something. More importantly though IMO is it will SEVERELY affect people who play once a day in a solid block. If you can pop on every few hours great! You can have health packs waiting for you. The improved regen rate means your guys will be (fairly) healthy and you can get a decent number of matches in a day. If you work, don't play before work cause it's early, don't play at work cause your working then get home and want to play MPQ as a 2* or early 3* player then you're boned! You either get used to playing a VERY limited number of matches or you pay money. No third option and no special skill you can employ.

While the Devs are under the impression that all your matches should be a "challenge" (PvE scaling up til you're taking substantial damage every fight and PvP MMR throwing teams very similar to yours at you (unless you tank)) you are taking damage pretty much every fight unless you are (ab)using a 3* combo (2* players can't) or HEALING.

The change in regen rates helps certain people but only those people who play on D3's imposed schedule rather than when they want to. PvE already bullies you into playing certain times (less so when rubber banding is bigger like the current event but who knows how they'll choose to rubber band from event to event....) and PvP does the same unless you want to pay out HP for longer shields. So now we're going to bully players (2* in particular) with regen timers and health pack timers?

Salmon Paw

This is probably the worst "We're really trying to help you guys" secret money ploy. If you're trying to kill your own game, you are succeeding with every patch you guys do. Every team is going to be Wolverine/Daken +1 from now on. I already stopped buying cards at all because the % rate is so low only a fool would expect to get anything but a 2* card from it. I just got my spider man usable and now he's worthless. Well great. She hulk is also pretty worthless now too, and she's not even out yet. I hope the dev team gets a look at how displeased the player base is and just drops this whole feature.

Unknown

HailMary wrote:

There are thousands of registered players, yes.

However, there are perhaps a hundred, at best, who are chiming in on this issue. I'd say that maybe half of them regularly use OBW in PVP.

From my experience with online games (primarily MMOs) there's unrest on the forums, people chime in that forum users are the minority and forum posters are an even smaller minority, unrest continues, the game loses a load of subs, hello free to play MMO!

Polls work by representative sampling. When they do opinion polls in the UK (where i'm from) they'll poll 7000 people and claim >90% accuracy for the entire country of 60 million. They would KILL for a 7% sample (if we are truly 7k out of 100k (Maths is hard )).

So i'll say the same thing I say every time.... unless you are convinced forumites are a bunch of seriously abnormal weirdos (remember YOU are a forumite ) then ignoring prevailing opinion, ESPECIALLY when so one sided is a massive mistake.

Unknown

locked wrote:

Nemek wrote:

SnowcaTT wrote:

IceIX wrote:

Adding this to the OP as well.


- Characters with significant regenerative powers: Wolverine, Daken, Spider-Man, Hulk, and She-Hulk regain health at double the rate.[/list]

Interesting that only OBW was left off this list as not having "regenerative powers", even though earlier she was listed with She-Hulk and Spider-Man as those with "abilities are considered temporary healing"

That's more in reference to a character's own canonical self-regenerative powers. I'm not terribly well versed in Black Widow canon, but I imagine she's very much human and exhibits typical human healing.

For all I know, Black Widow originated as a Super-Soldier (based on Captain America's serum, but a little bit different), therefore should have some restricted healing factor.
In the movies she appears to be a regular human though.

the grey suit BW has the serum, the other 2 dont i believe, but yeah i feel like gods and super soldiers both should have super regenerative powers

Unknown

bonfire01 wrote:

The change in regen rates helps certain people but only those people who play on D3's imposed schedule rather than when they want to. PvE already bullies you into playing certain times (less so when rubber banding is bigger like the current event but who knows how they'll choose to rubber band from event to event....) and PvP does the same unless you want to pay out HP for longer shields. So now we're going to bully players (2* in particular) with regen timers and health pack timers?

On an event like DA or Villians only for PvP you usually just see much less activity overall because OBW/Spiderman is never part of the lineup and even though people like to do prologue healing, it'd be easier still if you could have Spiderman/OBW on the team in the first place, and I'm not sure why the frenzied activity of the typical PvP event is considered better. It's actually pretty relaxing to take my 69 Daken + 85 Moonstone + 85 Ares and just climb to 800 or so in 2 sessions and then shield for a top 10 finish without being harassed, and that is hardly some kind of unstoppable P2W roster.

Unknown

JoshBot3000 wrote:

As a long time player & someone who wins a lot, I'll recap what I wrote in another thread about this

1) all 2* players are affect equally, so you're not worse off compared to each other
2) as far as the transition from 2* to 3*, the key is ISO. Like lots of it. Soft cap everyone on your roster. Play every lightning round to farm ISO. Play in the trainer a lot to farm ISO. That's the key. Not your placement in PvP every time (obviously get good placements when you "need" a specific good cover). Just earn lots of ISO. Use the ISO to level everyone up & to buy ISO priced ap boosts for end times in PvP for better finishes
3) this loss of healing will make you a better player in the long run because you will have to learn to play smarter to succeed. Also all 5 health packs come back in 2.5hr & all 2* will heal within 3 hrs or so
4) find a venue (this board, big alliances, FB pages etc) to find good players to help you by answering questions
5) remember it's a an online game. Stuff changes & you gotta adjust. In this case it's something that affects everyone except for the top players who have tons of 141s, so life will mostly be the same

thor and ares take like 6 hours to heal

Spoit

Pjoe0211 wrote:

JoshBot3000 wrote:

As a long time player & someone who wins a lot, I'll recap what I wrote in another thread about this

1) all 2* players are affect equally, so you're not worse off compared to each other
2) as far as the transition from 2* to 3*, the key is ISO. Like lots of it. Soft cap everyone on your roster. Play every lightning round to farm ISO. Play in the trainer a lot to farm ISO. That's the key. Not your placement in PvP every time (obviously get good placements when you "need" a specific good cover). Just earn lots of ISO. Use the ISO to level everyone up & to buy ISO priced ap boosts for end times in PvP for better finishes
3) this loss of healing will make you a better player in the long run because you will have to learn to play smarter to succeed. Also all 5 health packs come back in 2.5hr & all 2* will heal within 3 hrs or so
4) find a venue (this board, big alliances, FB pages etc) to find good players to help you by answering questions
5) remember it's a an online game. Stuff changes & you gotta adjust. In this case it's something that affects everyone except for the top players who have tons of 141s, so life will mostly be the same

thor and ares take like 6 hours to heal

3 hours would be a good time to peg average health (5800) to though. That's just a bit more than a full set of health packs

Unknown

Wall of text incoming...

These proposed changes leave very sour taste in my mouth. I'm new to the forums but I've been playing for quite some time (day ~170 now) and simply wanted to add my 2 cents.

1) Prologue healing: If this was the issue then simply lock down the prologue nodes once a player has collected all the rewards. Optionally, you could allow users to simply see the story parts (dialogue) of the locked nodes if they want to refresh their memory. Trying to fix this by nerfing all team healers is like performing surgery with a chainsaw.

2) "True" healing. It just seems sloppy to me to seperate between "true" and "false" healing. If the team healer abilities (anti gravity, web bandages and reprieve) don't actually heal the characters because of lore or whatever, then change it into a different mechanism, let's call it a Barrier. A barrier would operate like a different health bar, all incoming damage would be taken from the barriers first, it should be stackable but only up to a point. For example, an OBW with a blue that heals 1000 points per use would now add 1000 barrier points per use to a maximum of 1500 or 2000 points (maximum barrier strength is 150% or 200% of the ability strength).
This will add another strategic element to the game as a lot of other character abilities could be focused on manipulating barriers. For example, Ragnarok's and Doctor Doom's third power could be to generate X points of barrier in front of themselves up to a maximum of Y, while Bullseye's third power could be to fire a volley of disrupting shots that completely tear down the barriers of all the members of the opposing team (or does X damage versus barriers and only a quarter of that against health)

Personally, I am certain that the True Healing mechanism as it is proposed now is simply an attempt to squeeze more money from the users, especially the newer ones still making the 1*->2*->3*, as where many changes in the past few months: reducing PVP rewards (as was done I think 2-3 months ago, I am very happy with your recent changes to the PVP reward structure), selling cover slots in packs for "convenience", removing guaranteed featured characters from cover 10-packs and also substantially reducing their drop rate.

Please D3, if money is the issue you are going about it the wrong way! If you go on like this you'll drive away a lot of loyal customers! Forcing users to pay is a lot worse that providing incentives. You want money? Add an alliance headquarters feature, where users can purchase small boosts for their alliance (ex. a medbay that reduces healing time by 10%, a vault that increases the minimum iso reward to 40 etc), nothing game-breaking. Add cosmetic purchases, like alternate outfits for the characters (Team Fortress 2 has a huge economy based on HATS for heavens sake!).
Finally (and I know I'll probably get some flak from other burned out forumites for this but I stand behind it) add MORE new characters and add them more frequently. And not just 3* but everything from 1* to 4*. The collecting compulsion that we as humans have is a substantial driving force and true collectors are spenders. Currently, MPQ has 44-45 characters. If the game eventually reached 100 or 200 characters, I am confident that there are people out there who would spend serious money just to have one of each on their roster (or even 13/13 covers for everyone). Remember how cover pack sales dominated your revenue pie chart? Why not try incentivising users to spend more on packs, instead of trying to extort money by gimping your game mechanisms.

I've probably used up my forum quota for the next couple of years, so I'll stop now.

TL;DR: "True Healing" sucks in it's current proposed form, do something better. If you want more money, try to reward paying players instead of punishing F2P ones.

Unknown

Well..o..well

I played this game for six months and i have been through a lot.

Spending money (especially on Spidy covers, bought like 10 of them), waking up 4am in the morning to push for covers, sneak out of work to push in pve and pvp.

Well...all that, i can just suck it up. But this..

I love this game 100% but stuff like this is making me extremely mad at the developer.

Now I need to pay HP for healthpack to score high in PVP.

This is definitely a P2W game now.

If this is how it is, I will QUIT for sure!!!!!!!!

Unknown

bonfire01 wrote:

HailMary wrote:

There are thousands of registered players, yes.

However, there are perhaps a hundred, at best, who are chiming in on this issue. I'd say that maybe half of them regularly use OBW in PVP.

From my experience with online games (primarily MMOs) there's unrest on the forums, people chime in that forum users are the minority and forum posters are an even smaller minority, unrest continues, the game loses a load of subs, hello free to play MMO!

Polls work by representative sampling. When they do opinion polls in the UK (where i'm from) they'll poll 7000 people and claim >90% accuracy for the entire country of 60 million. They would KILL for a 0.07% sample (if we are truly 7k out of 100k).

So i'll say the same thing I say every time.... unless you are convinced forumites are a bunch of seriously abnormal weirdos (remember YOU are a forumite ) then ignoring prevailing opinion, ESPECIALLY when so one sided is a massive mistake.

Just a minor correction, if your numbers are correct we are a actually sample of 7%, not 0,07%

Unknown

I just want to put something into context here. 5 health packs costs 200 hero points. You can buy 200 hero points for $2. Or, for 50 cents more, you could buy Bastion, an absolute gem of a game that everyone should have by now anyways. Or metro 2033, which is a straight-up AAA title. Or Fallout 3, which has hundreds of hours of content and no in-app purchases. Or Payday. Or serious sam 2. Or Trine 2. Or Saints Row 2. Or One Finger Death Punch. Or Audiosurf. Or Roller Coaster Tyc- WAIT THEY HAVE THAT ON STEAM NOW?! Well, I know what I'm doing when I can't compete in puzzle quest any more...

kensterr

just open up a second slot for 5 free time-regen health packs, sold for 300HP. I would pay for that!

Unknown

locked wrote:

JoshBot3000 wrote:

As a long time player & someone who wins a lot, I'll recap what I wrote in another thread about this

1) all 2* players are affect equally, so you're not worse off compared to each other
2) as far as the transition from 2* to 3*, the key is ISO. Like lots of it. Soft cap everyone on your roster. Play every lightning round to farm ISO. Play in the trainer a lot to farm ISO. That's the key. Not your placement in PvP every time (obviously get good placements when you "need" a specific good cover). Just earn lots of ISO. Use the ISO to level everyone up & to buy ISO priced ap boosts for end times in PvP for better finishes
3) this loss of healing will make you a better player in the long run because you will have to learn to play smarter to succeed. Also all 5 health packs come back in 2.5hr & all 2* will heal within 3 hrs or so
4) find a venue (this board, big alliances, FB pages etc) to find good players to help you by answering questions
5) remember it's a an online game. Stuff changes & you gotta adjust. In this case it's something that affects everyone except for the top players who have tons of 141s, so life will mostly be the same

1) yeah, but they will be able to compete with 3*s even less than they can now
2) winning in training will kitty up your MMR and I'm serious
3) what doesn't kill me, makes me stronger? thanks! I thought we were playing a match-3 game!
4) the most needed thing to know is how to tank and that knowledge now is seemingly sacred even here
5) it affects top players, too! surprise! who are they going to snipe points now from, if 2*s can't play in a prolonged fashion anymore?

Phantron, it's still much easier to use a healthpack on them than wait more than half an hour.

1) wait so we live in a world where people expect 2* characters to beat 3* regularly? That is madness. To make the transition from 2* to 3*, you really gotta be finished w 2* level (almost everyone is all "I have 1-3 maxed 2*, where are my 3*?") If you max out all your 2*, it will be super easy to save iso going forward to keep all 3* softcapped
2) farming iso is critical to the transition from 2* to 3*. It is more important than covers. a low level max covered character is a lot more useless than soft capped higher level character. for example a lvl50 max cover is less useful than that same character at lvl102 w "only" a 343 build. Always soft cap. so farm for iso
3) ask any elite player (1100+ pts) who used spidey 100% of the time if they like the dynamics of the game better now & I would bet at least 2/3 says its better now. healing characters are so slow. slow = death from external attacks while you play. concentrate on actually killing your opposition fast & you won't lose health. I know that sounds obvious but many/most players have weird roster designs. Like xforce lvl90 as their top character or strong max cover guys w no levels on them (i dont know how many lvl40 355 LT i have seen but there shouldn't be any. level LT fast in case you do not already know lol)
4) join a big alliance. any good alliance should be able to explain all game concepts easily. some things sound counter-intuitive but work 99% of the time
5) this will not affect top players at all. literally. Let me explain for perspective. most top players (1100+) have big rosters & can rotate guys easily. Most of them have patch and/or LD. anytime a top player sees a 2* team early in pvp, the decision process goes "i can win in 1-2 min at most, are they worth enough points?'". Like in hotshot, I am running 212 HT, 141 BP, 141 LT. Theres no 2* team that can beat me (not trying to boast but I have put a lot of playing time into those guys and wanted to make a team that can hold up). My team is pretty standard for 1100+. I dont have a good sentry yet & hood & psylocke & falcon are all too low level to help me yet but other top players will just switch some of those names for others (for example maybe they dont have much BP or punisher is too low level). 800 points is the dividing line between average players (solid 2* roster but no transition yet) & good players (2*=>3* teams & small roster 3* teams). 800-1100 is the main battleground for the transition from 2* to 3* along w small roster 3* teams. top players can beat anyone generally speaking & are more concerned w retals than anything else. Once I am above 1000, I do not even see 2* teams mostly (there are weird pockets where you see 2* teams for awhile all at 2 or 3 pts). I only heal in prologue when I play pve & scaling went crazy or its a particularly bad heroic one.

My two last big pieces of advice for those in the transition from 2* to 3* are to:
1) really find an alliance w people who know the game well & answer your questions. In my alliance, we share info & train new guys into better strategy (iso spends, lineup choices, when/how to play efficiently etc)
2) be patient. No win who isn't spending tons of money on this game will go straight from all 2* to winning every pvp. your time will come if you keep after it

PS I do not know of any elite player who ever buys health packs other than end time of a pve when it matters for placement for a reward cover. Don't buy health pack. just wait and play later lol