True Healing Discussion (Live 6/25)

Unknown

MonkeySlut wrote:

D3, Do you guys always have to throw the baby out with the bath water? Couldn't of just made Story health completely separate from verses health?

That is actually a very good and interesting concept. Different health meters for PVP and PVE.

With faster regen times (which would still have to faster ~at least by double~ than ICE mentioned if they remove healers abilities to carry over), and these separate meters, it might actually work.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

New Healing Rates

- 2* characters regain 18 health/minute (1.5x faster) - 3* characters regain 24 health/minute (2x faster) - 4* characters regain 30 health/minute (2.5x faster) - Characters with significant regenerative powers: Wolverine, Daken, Spider-Man, Hulk, and She-Hulk regain health at double the rate.

Better than nothing, still far from the natural model where healing happens in percent of max health rather than fix points. Having *** characters with good HP base should be a full benefit just as leveling them -- now every level adds time to full heal. I'm glad at least Hulk made the special list finally, though he still recuperates for like 4 hours? And Thor over 6? I'd put the baseline to like 2 hours to full health, 3 tops.

Keep adding relevant game changes to this and hold it back until it's a good coherent set. If the talk about using full of the diverse roster holds any water the "who defends" issue must be fully covered as it will obviously not fly otherwise, and for the usual forced-hero PVP healing of the hero remains a serious issue. I have no idea how to cover those but maybe asking players for brainstorming would be a good start.

Unknown

Changes to character healing rates are good and welcome. Increased medpack slots (that don't cost 1000 HP apiece) would likewise be good and welcome.

Implement those two changes and don't bother with the true/false healing distinction. The game will improve, and fewer people will prologue heal.

Leugenesmiff

My main problem is I was treating this like a "real" game, one where you can be a longtime player and have a community of other like players forming a "hardcore" base. But it isn't. Like all other F2P games the devs can't sustain a game' score balance long enough for that to happen. To make money, they need to make what's strong in the game obsolete and then build new strengths and repeat. Over and over. And like most F2P there'll be a group of more hardcore players, but that group will have a lot of turnaround because the nature of the game just doesn't support it. I wish it wasn't so, but it is. Time to stop fooling myself.
I'm going to keep playing because the game is fun. But I think I'm done with my alliance, at the very least with being a commander, and I'm going to start playing how the devs seem to want me to, a little bit, every now and again, and not really caring much about it anymore.

Realstuff_NameChange

Why not simply do what other f2p/p2p games do and have either the total number of healthpacks available based on the size of the player's roster, or have a certain number of healthpacks/heals/revives whatever per character (so that you couldn't have junk character just to boost the overall number of heals that could be used on the popular choices).

Seems like that would encourage a bit more variety because it would at least make it so people could play their less powerful teams more than one or two suicide missions and save health packs only for their main teams.

Unknown

Malcoran wrote:

IceIX wrote:

bonfire01 wrote:

I wonder if a mod can just edit his post like they can with everyone else's?

Yes, and that was the case. The situation has been handled. There is zero call for post vandalism from anyone, much less someone with moderator privileges.

Emeryt wanted to leave with a bang. Looks like he achieved it

Also: money.

Also: no sense of humour.

Are you sure this was Emeryt?

spccrain

Ok so I would like to know what healing implements are in the health packs? Is it just bandages or perhaps some Stark Tech device that heals all damage and brings people back to life? Wait....Web Bandages...Stark Device...well I guess it couldn't be that because that would just be silly, right? Probably just a Spider-man Bandaid and some peroxide.

Unknown

Encourage bigger rosters by giving health pack slots per leveled toons. Take a character half way to max. One slot. Take it all the way. 2 slots. So a 1star would get you 2 at 25 and 50. A 2star at 42 and 85.

Or roll it into slots bought. For every character slot you have purchased get a health alot.

Or even Alliance based. Every 4 members gives you a extra health pack. So full alliances get 5 more. It helps encourage big alliances

Unknown

spccrain wrote:

Ok so I would like to know what healing implements are in the health packs? Is it just bandages or perhaps some Stark Tech device that heals all damage and brings people back to life? Wait....Web Bandages...Stark Device...well I guess it couldn't be that because that would just be silly, right? Probably just a Spider-man Bandaid and some peroxide.

Daredevil's love and Stone's life force, OBVIOUSLY

jojeda654

BelligerentGnu wrote:

Malcoran wrote:

IceIX wrote:

bonfire01 wrote:

I wonder if a mod can just edit his post like they can with everyone else's?

Yes, and that was the case. The situation has been handled. There is zero call for post vandalism from anyone, much less someone with moderator privileges.

Emeryt wanted to leave with a bang. Looks like he achieved it

Also: money.

Also: no sense of humour.

Are you sure this was Emeryt?

Yes.

IceIX wrote:

bonfire01 wrote:

I wonder if a mod can just edit his post like they can with everyone else's?

Yes, and that was the case. The situation has been handled. There is zero call for post vandalism from anyone, much less someone with moderator privileges.

And:
reputation.php?&mode=details&u=1423
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10333

Unknown

I haven't read the entire thread, but I'm going to comment on what I did read.

For me, this change is all win. They just made my personal playstyle much more effective.

I NEVER prologue heal. I NEVER use OBW or Spiderman. I play with a couple of different teams depending on my characters' health totals and the stage of the event. Early in an event I throw in tankier guys like Lazy Thor, Black Panther, and Hulk. Late in an event I will usually go with something Fast like Patch and Cmags. And in any case at every stage I go out of my way to minimize the damage my characters receive and I don't use health packs until I absolutely have to.

So now they made my guys recover faster, while taking absolutely nothing away from me? I have a hard time being upset with that.

Prologue healing sucks. I tried it once, and immediately decided it was for the birds. I couldn't believe that some people actually put themselves through that. And OBW and Spiderman are both decent characters (even post nerf), but at the higher tiers of play neither one of them cuts the mustard.

Now here's the "but".

Development time is being used to figure out ways to get rid of prologue healing? Prologue healing. Really?

Oy vey.

Unknown

It seems a bit counter intuitive to say that you want to increase roster diversity while at the same time constantly making new characters and refusing to fix the old broken/**** ones. How about you make it easier to get 3 star covers for people that don't play the game like it's a job? 3* is where you seem to want your players at but only the truly hardcore or people with excess cash have full 3* rosters.

If they were serious about wanting to increase roster diversity they'd increase healing not decrease it. By this I mean increasing healing/regen in a meaningful way, waiting 3 hours for your team to heal isn't really all that meaningful for people that want to play.

IF players could play as their favourite characters and still win consistently, they might just do that. Heck Magneto is one of my favourite characters but knowing that they plan to nerf him into oblivion doesn't exactly make me want to play him. Especially now that I can't heal him and he's squishy to begin with.

Unknown

One thing that I think would help to encourage playing your whole roster would be to add a point multiplier at the end of an event based on how many different characters you won a match with.

At the same time... make it so that being attacked no longer causes you to lose points (and get rid of shields since they'd no longer serve a purpose). Instead of buying shields to help in events, people will spend their hero points to buy more roster spots, upgrade their heroes, and possibly buy some health packs or boosts (but mainly the first two). Losing points on defense makes basically zero sense as it stands, because it matches you against people that are at your skill level, but when you get attacked, players are fighting a weak AI, not you. I shouldn't lose points because the computer has no idea how to play my characters effectively.

And when someone attacks you, your defensive team is chosen at random from the three teams that you've won with the most during that event, instead of just whichever team you last used.

Lastly, in PvE events, it might be interesting to have a special type of node that does not have any point decay-- but each time you win, you can't use any hero on that node that you've used before, meaning that you'd have to play a lot of different heroes in order to get a lot of points out of that node, until you'd finally run out of characters (or at least run out of characters that are strong enough to win that battle).

Unknown

Yes.

IceIX wrote:

bonfire01 wrote:

I wonder if a mod can just edit his post like they can with everyone else's?

Yes, and that was the case. The situation has been handled. There is zero call for post vandalism from anyone, much less someone with moderator privileges.

And:
reputation.php?&mode=details&u=1423
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10333

Welp, I can pretty much see why.

IceIX, would you mind responding to the concerns I posted earlier in this thread?

HailMary

Ooooh, faster healing for my 3*s. Pretty cool. Speaking as someone who uses prologue healing, let's see how it plays out.

DaveyPitch wrote:

Better, but not enough IMO. Why not just have a flat rate per tier? 1* characters heal fully in one hour. 2* characters in 2 hours, 3* in 3 hours and so on. It seems harsh that because I might prefer to run Lazy Thor over say Patch, I have to wait nearly 3 times as long for him to heal fully. It makes no sense to me.

In a way, not implementing your proposal encourages more diversity, and essentially prevents big tanks from being OP in the metagame. After all, LT would need to recover health points at twice the rate of Hood in order to fully heal in the same amount of time, which would warp character balance in interesting ways -- that's not to say that characters are very well-balanced now, but I'd rather not make balance even worse. Sure, I'd like my maxed Hulk to take less than 6 years to "naturally" heal from death, but I can see why they didn't implement an "every 3* character heals in 3 hours" system.

Unknown

dlaw008 wrote:

I haven't read the entire thread, but I'm going to comment on what I did read.

For me, this change is all win. They just made my personal playstyle much more effective.

I NEVER prologue heal. I NEVER use OBW or Spiderman. I play with a couple of different teams depending on my characters' health totals and the stage of the event. Early in an event I throw in tankier guys like Lazy Thor, Black Panther, and Hulk. Late in an event I will usually go with something Fast like Patch and Cmags. And in any case at every stage I go out of my way to minimize the damage my characters receive and I don't use health packs until I absolutely have to.

So now they made my guys recover faster, while taking absolutely nothing away from me? I have a hard time being upset with that.

Prologue healing sucks. I tried it once, and immediately decided it was for the birds. I couldn't believe that some people actually put themselves through that. And OBW and Spiderman are both decent characters (even post nerf), but at the higher tiers of play neither one of them cuts the mustard.

Now here's the "but".

Development time is being used to figure out ways to get rid of prologue healing? Prologue healing. Really?

Oy vey.

If they released a patch that gave 10000 Hero Points to every player who had the word "Moon" (or a variant, like Lunar) in his or her screen name, I would still recognize that it was a bad idea even if it only benefited me. Remember that they are basically making obsolete an entire class of abilities with this change; this is a pretty widespread nerf with some profound implications for the metagame. Anytime options disappear from the game, it's a bad thing--even if those are options you don't choose to pursue. I wasn't using Ragnarok when they nerfed him, but I still didn't agree with the way they utterly demolished him as a character.

And, to quibble: you can't possible believe that Spiderman is a "decent" character after the nerf. Come on, man. That's ludicrous. And if you want to pretend that he was playable this week, you have to at least admit that the true healing "feature" makes him bottom of the barrel. OBW will always be strong because of her purple shenanigans, but Spiderman has now lost 2 of his 3 abilities.

All that being said, you're absolutely right: the real tragedy here is that any amount of developer resources have been spent trying to address this "prologue healing problem." I don't know what they think prologue healing is doing to the game, but there can't possibly not be bigger fish to fry.

Unknown

HailMary wrote:

Ooooh, faster healing for my 3*s. Pretty cool. Speaking as someone who uses prologue healing, let's see how it plays out.

DaveyPitch wrote:

Better, but not enough IMO. Why not just have a flat rate per tier? 1* characters heal fully in one hour. 2* characters in 2 hours, 3* in 3 hours and so on. It seems harsh that because I might prefer to run Lazy Thor over say Patch, I have to wait nearly 3 times as long for him to heal fully. It makes no sense to me.

In a way, not implementing your proposal encourages more diversity, and essentially prevents big tanks from being OP in the metagame. After all, LT would need to recover health points at twice the rate of Hood in order to fully heal in the same amount of time, which would warp character balance in interesting ways -- that's not to say that characters are very well-balanced now, but I'd rather not make balance even worse. Sure, I'd like my maxed Hulk to take less than 6 years to "naturally" heal from death, but I can see why they didn't implement an "every 3* character heals in 3 hours" system.

Hulk healing in the same time as The Hood would hardly make him more powerful than The Hood.

Now that'd matter if it's Sentry or Thor but that's because those two characters happen to be way stronger than anyone else to begin with, and at any rate just because it takes about 12 hours for them to heal to full sure hasn't stopped anyone from using them.

Unknown

Can we please stop it with the lying and treating us like idiots? Pretty please with a cherry on top?

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10337

Unknown

johnaaron33 wrote:

MonkeySlut wrote:

D3, Do you guys always have to throw the baby out with the bath water? Couldn't of just made Story health completely separate from verses health?

That is actually a very good and interesting concept. Different health meters for PVP and PVE.

With faster regen times (which would still have to faster ~at least by double~ than ICE mentioned if they remove healers abilities to carry over), and these separate meters, it might actually work.

There are a million ways they could have removed PvE healing without doing this but instead they chose to introduce this **** called true healing because they want you to buy health packs or build several of the same characters. Removing PvE healing is just an excuse and a cover to nullify healing in PvP.

Unknown

So then there's two ways D3 can handle this.

(1) Listen to the overwhelming majority of the fanbase.
Result = fostering of goodwill / voice of the people being heard / keep the game fun / people won't ragequit / still make money!

(2) Don't listen
Result = opposite of everything in #1 EXCEPT: make slightly more money than before



#2 wins in a landslide!