HoundofShadow said: I'm not fixated about rewards but your dedicated players are. Puzzle Gauntlet was an interesting event and apart from the guaranteed specific R3 or better Supports, Advanced and Beginner tokens given, every other rewards are trash. Again, if it's not a meta support, the entire event is trash. You can see it when players have difficulty solving puzzles and called the reward trash or an event not worth their time. Some players expect 100 5* shards for completing Introducing... Events. And so on. You don't care but they care. Some players expect better than usual rewards when you want them to showcase their expertise when clearing new events. I think there's a term for this phenomena.I wonder why we need to limit the change to only LR and not implement it in day-2-day pvp instead. Think about all the interesting pvps like Evergreen, Snowball Fight and more etc, I think it's easier to implement there than to reinvent LRs completely. As far as finding new combination is concern, I believe that it should come from players' willingness rather than forcing them to find new combinations.
hothie said: "But we already have that with our pvp events." True, but are those stale, too? Same rewards that you can earn every time, only the characters change. I dunno. If we're trying new things to make LRs better, this might at least be a good start.
Phumade said:Again just because people don't like an event's rewards doesn't mean they won't come play it to see some new game interaction/feature/essential. I even turned on my animations on one time just to see what some players were talking about.
Phumade said: The real beauty of LRs is that alliance and season ranks aren't at risk. That completely changes the calculus of how people approach play. That fact alone is the biggest differentiator in how people approach regular season and off season events.
Phumade said: HoundofShadow said: I'm not fixated about rewards but your dedicated players are. Puzzle Gauntlet was an interesting event and apart from the guaranteed specific R3 or better Supports, Advanced and Beginner tokens given, every other rewards are trash. Again, if it's not a meta support, the entire event is trash. You can see it when players have difficulty solving puzzles and called the reward trash or an event not worth their time. Some players expect 100 5* shards for completing Introducing... Events. And so on. You don't care but they care. Some players expect better than usual rewards when you want them to showcase their expertise when clearing new events. I think there's a term for this phenomena.I wonder why we need to limit the change to only LR and not implement it in day-2-day pvp instead. Think about all the interesting pvps like Evergreen, Snowball Fight and more etc, I think it's easier to implement there than to reinvent LRs completely. As far as finding new combination is concern, I believe that it should come from players' willingness rather than forcing them to find new combinations. Have you ever considered that liking an event is totally different than playing and participating in an event? Lots of people dislike various events and yet they consistently engage and play the event to the fullest extent of their rosters. As difficult and challenging 5* Switch PVP is, I'm pretty sure lots of people where fully engaged trying to lockdown how they will approach Wanda/Colossus in future matchups. I myself used that event as an opportunity to lockdown my play approach against Wanda/Colossus/Odin combos in the future. (Specifically, I skipped Wanda/colossus/Odin in shield sim because there are easier and faster TTK combos to hit to get to 2k. I.e. I will always hit an ihulk/okie combo in Shield precisely because that team is so consistently beaten by Wanda/Colossus)I see lots of complaints on the difficulty of Welcome to Shield (especially the 2nd layer), and I'm pretty sure they are one of the most consistently played mini-events. I also have a strong suspicion that Puzzle Gauntlet is actually pretty high on the engagement factor simply because it requires different approaches and rewards using lower tier chars. Even in my alliance, there usually a saved discussion note with which chars are optimized for the various tasks. People don't play LRs because they already know the required chars, and what their best combo options will be to play the event. I suspect that if there was some magical new "surprise" (I have no idea what) in the existing 2*/3* LRs. All the vets would come try it out just to see what the surprise is.Again just because people don't like an event's rewards doesn't mean they won't come play it to see some new game interaction/feature/essential. I even turned on my animations on one time just to see what some players were talking about.I certainly wouldn't mind some new innovations to normal pvp. Offseason is usually great for trying out new rulesets. In fact, its the only time I alter my playstyle because I know my traditional start times/hop patterns won't be sufficient to accomplish my expected goals.
entrailbucket said: I don't play LR because they're not fun, and these days, I just don't play events that aren't fun for me (I did 500 points in the SW PvP...I intended to just do the seeds and quit, but I found a few non Colossus teams).Let's say they change LR so a different set of characters is featured. What does that look like for us? Here's what it looks like for me, guaranteed: 3 seed teams, and then an infinite queue of essential/550 SW/550 Colossus. Before those guys, it would've been an endless wall of 550 Okoye + Hulk. Before that it was Bishop. What's the point of changing the essentials around when every match is the same? Yes, theoretically players can experiment and try out all kinds of stuff, and players love to talk about doing it, but in practice nobody ever does that if there's even a chance of getting rewards.Now, if you put random, constantly-shifting 5* boosts in LR and shield sim...then we're talking.
Phumade said: entrailbucket said: I don't play LR because they're not fun, and these days, I just don't play events that aren't fun for me (I did 500 points in the SW PvP...I intended to just do the seeds and quit, but I found a few non Colossus teams).Let's say they change LR so a different set of characters is featured. What does that look like for us? Here's what it looks like for me, guaranteed: 3 seed teams, and then an infinite queue of essential/550 SW/550 Colossus. Before those guys, it would've been an endless wall of 550 Okoye + Hulk. Before that it was Bishop. What's the point of changing the essentials around when every match is the same? Yes, theoretically players can experiment and try out all kinds of stuff, and players love to talk about doing it, but in practice nobody ever does that if there's even a chance of getting rewards.Now, if you put random, constantly-shifting 5* boosts in LR and shield sim...then we're talking. IF the devs change the format (and we all know how big that IF actually is). Its more than likely that it won't matter for the biggest rosters. and Thats okay!The Devs can at least legitimately claim they updated LRs in 7 years and hopefully, some tier of players will benefit/enjoy from the change no matter what direction they go.
entrailbucket said: Phumade said: HoundofShadow said: I'm not fixated about rewards but your dedicated players are. Puzzle Gauntlet was an interesting event and apart from the guaranteed specific R3 or better Supports, Advanced and Beginner tokens given, every other rewards are trash. Again, if it's not a meta support, the entire event is trash. You can see it when players have difficulty solving puzzles and called the reward trash or an event not worth their time. Some players expect 100 5* shards for completing Introducing... Events. And so on. You don't care but they care. Some players expect better than usual rewards when you want them to showcase their expertise when clearing new events. I think there's a term for this phenomena.I wonder why we need to limit the change to only LR and not implement it in day-2-day pvp instead. Think about all the interesting pvps like Evergreen, Snowball Fight and more etc, I think it's easier to implement there than to reinvent LRs completely. As far as finding new combination is concern, I believe that it should come from players' willingness rather than forcing them to find new combinations. Have you ever considered that liking an event is totally different than playing and participating in an event? Lots of people dislike various events and yet they consistently engage and play the event to the fullest extent of their rosters. As difficult and challenging 5* Switch PVP is, I'm pretty sure lots of people where fully engaged trying to lockdown how they will approach Wanda/Colossus in future matchups. I myself used that event as an opportunity to lockdown my play approach against Wanda/Colossus/Odin combos in the future. (Specifically, I skipped Wanda/colossus/Odin in shield sim because there are easier and faster TTK combos to hit to get to 2k. I.e. I will always hit an ihulk/okie combo in Shield precisely because that team is so consistently beaten by Wanda/Colossus)I see lots of complaints on the difficulty of Welcome to Shield (especially the 2nd layer), and I'm pretty sure they are one of the most consistently played mini-events. I also have a strong suspicion that Puzzle Gauntlet is actually pretty high on the engagement factor simply because it requires different approaches and rewards using lower tier chars. Even in my alliance, there usually a saved discussion note with which chars are optimized for the various tasks. People don't play LRs because they already know the required chars, and what their best combo options will be to play the event. I suspect that if there was some magical new "surprise" (I have no idea what) in the existing 2*/3* LRs. All the vets would come try it out just to see what the surprise is.Again just because people don't like an event's rewards doesn't mean they won't come play it to see some new game interaction/feature/essential. I even turned on my animations on one time just to see what some players were talking about.I certainly wouldn't mind some new innovations to normal pvp. Offseason is usually great for trying out new rulesets. In fact, its the only time I alter my playstyle because I know my traditional start times/hop patterns won't be sufficient to accomplish my expected goals. I don't play LR because they're not fun, and these days, I just don't play events that aren't fun for me (I did 500 points in the SW PvP...I intended to just do the seeds and quit, but I found a few non Colossus teams).Let's say they change LR so a different set of characters is featured. What does that look like for us? Here's what it looks like for me, guaranteed: 3 seed teams, and then an infinite queue of essential/550 SW/550 Colossus. Before those guys, it would've been an endless wall of 550 Okoye + Hulk. Before that it was Bishop. What's the point of changing the essentials around when every match is the same? Yes, theoretically players can experiment and try out all kinds of stuff, and players love to talk about doing it, but in practice nobody ever does that if there's even a chance of getting rewards.Now, if you put random, constantly-shifting 5* boosts in LR and shield sim...then we're talking.
HoundofShadow said: Currently, LR is infested with Colossus/Wanda when you hit high point regardless of which 3* is featured. So, rotating 3* or 4* won't change the way these high end players play. Maybe Polaris will cause the players to change enemy team to consisting of Carbage/Kitty/BRB/R4G.In the Wanda PvP, I have trouble finding high pointers (60-70) after hitting past 1000. For many other pvps, this wasn't a problem. There were fewer engagements either due to Colossus/Wanda being a pain or it's because it's off-season.As for engagement, pvp engagements are always low. You need to move out of your top alliance and stay in a top 5000-10000 alliance to see what I'm talking about. The only type of players that will enjoy that kind of plays are largely players with big rosters or top alliances who love to do all the sniping and whatever activities they play among themselves. Even the bar set for T100 pvp alliance is pretty low. It seems to me that the type of player that push for change to LRs seem to be those long time players.Here's my counter proposal, simply insert BOP/BFF/Combined Arm rules into all LRs and we'll probably see more varieties. And shake up pvps held during season with special theme pvp instead of waiting for off seasons. Unleash bloodbath with coloured themes like Evergreen during season. We have six stones. So, why not have a coloured theme pvp that is related to every season?