Why Developer inaction kills playerbase activity within the game.

Phumade

Colognoisseur said:

When I had the opportunity to talk with Ice IX At NYCC seven years ago the why of LRs was simple. They were a place for players to mine iso. In those early days with a two character 4* tier and only 2&3* that was ideal. I played them like crazy and never found myself short of iso to keep up with new releases. Which is what was intended. Now they are obsoleted by all the developments since. I still play them because they were such a large part of my early time in MPQ. 

With Ice IX back with Demiurge, I'd be curious to hear his thoughts and if he sees any value in updating LRs to be relevant to the modern player.

@IceIX

Dogface

ISO is the only reason I play LR (apart from the occasional need to play a versus match for daily milestones). And I only play seed teams, depending on how many of those there are, I can reach just under 250 points.

entrailbucket

Phumade said:

Colognoisseur said:

When I had the opportunity to talk with Ice IX At NYCC seven years ago the why of LRs was simple. They were a place for players to mine iso. In those early days with a two character 4* tier and only 2&3* that was ideal. I played them like crazy and never found myself short of iso to keep up with new releases. Which is what was intended. Now they are obsoleted by all the developments since. I still play them because they were such a large part of my early time in MPQ. 

With Ice IX back with Demiurge, I'd be curious to hear his thoughts and if he sees any value in updating LRs to be relevant to the modern player.

@IceIX

A few weeks ago I went completely stark raving insane in another thread asking why nobody from D3 or Demiurge talks to us at all anymore and why we don't know any of the current "whys" of MPQ.

Pretty much everyone in the thread said that they had no interest in hearing from devs at all, that players were not entitled to any of this information, and that they preferred to guess at the whys rather than having the actual answers.

Godzillafan67

entrailbucket said:

Phumade said:

Colognoisseur said:

When I had the opportunity to talk with Ice IX At NYCC seven years ago the why of LRs was simple. They were a place for players to mine iso. In those early days with a two character 4* tier and only 2&3* that was ideal. I played them like crazy and never found myself short of iso to keep up with new releases. Which is what was intended. Now they are obsoleted by all the developments since. I still play them because they were such a large part of my early time in MPQ. 

With Ice IX back with Demiurge, I'd be curious to hear his thoughts and if he sees any value in updating LRs to be relevant to the modern player.

@IceIX

A few weeks ago I went completely stark raving insane in another thread asking why nobody from D3 or Demiurge talks to us at all anymore and why we don't know any of the current "whys" of MPQ.

Pretty much everyone in the thread said that they had no interest in hearing from devs at all, that players were not entitled to any of this information, and that they preferred to guess at the whys rather than having the actual answers.

As I recall, everyone has just accepted the fact that the devs are silent entities (that may or may not lurk on these forums) and does not expect that to change regardless of our pleas. What upsets me is when I hear that the devs post/chat on discord or reddit instead of this, the official MPQ forum. I've been in-and-out of MPQ and was a longtime lurker before I joined and became a poster, and the only time I remember there being some positive comradery was when ICEIX was working this board and posting semi-regularly.

entrailbucket

Godzillafan67 said:

entrailbucket said:

Phumade said:

Colognoisseur said:

When I had the opportunity to talk with Ice IX At NYCC seven years ago the why of LRs was simple. They were a place for players to mine iso. In those early days with a two character 4* tier and only 2&3* that was ideal. I played them like crazy and never found myself short of iso to keep up with new releases. Which is what was intended. Now they are obsoleted by all the developments since. I still play them because they were such a large part of my early time in MPQ. 

With Ice IX back with Demiurge, I'd be curious to hear his thoughts and if he sees any value in updating LRs to be relevant to the modern player.

@IceIX

A few weeks ago I went completely stark raving insane in another thread asking why nobody from D3 or Demiurge talks to us at all anymore and why we don't know any of the current "whys" of MPQ.

Pretty much everyone in the thread said that they had no interest in hearing from devs at all, that players were not entitled to any of this information, and that they preferred to guess at the whys rather than having the actual answers.

As I recall, everyone has just accepted the fact that the devs are silent entities (that may or may not lurk on these forums) and does not expect that to change regardless of our pleas. What upsets me is when I hear that the devs post/chat on discord or reddit instead of this, the official MPQ forum. I've been in-and-out of MPQ and was a longtime lurker before I joined and became a poster, and the only time I remember there being some positive comradery was when ICEIX was working this board and posting semi-regularly.

It wasn't that they've accepted it, though.  They thought that it was *unreasonable* to want to know such things -- that players not only had no right to this information, but that anyone who'd even dare to ask "why" was being entitled.  (That's why I went crazy)

We have so many debates on this forum about the devs' intentions that could be resolved in 10 seconds with a post from a red name, but apparently most of the players now have no interest in those answers.

HoundofShadow

Thanks all for the history and purpose of LRs. That's why LRs is a pseudo double iso-8 in disguise.

I still think that they need to increase participation for pvps before they focus on LRs. Revamping LRs probably make things fun for the top level. After becoming 5* player, I hardly play LRs anymore even though I'm in iso-8 deficit. I find it difficult to find time to play LRs, so I think those casual player won't even have time to touch LRs too. Probably they play the seed nodes and call it a day once or twice a day.

DAZ0273

entrailbucket said:

Phumade said:

Colognoisseur said:

When I had the opportunity to talk with Ice IX At NYCC seven years ago the why of LRs was simple. They were a place for players to mine iso. In those early days with a two character 4* tier and only 2&3* that was ideal. I played them like crazy and never found myself short of iso to keep up with new releases. Which is what was intended. Now they are obsoleted by all the developments since. I still play them because they were such a large part of my early time in MPQ. 

With Ice IX back with Demiurge, I'd be curious to hear his thoughts and if he sees any value in updating LRs to be relevant to the modern player.

@IceIX

A few weeks ago I went completely stark raving insane in another thread asking why nobody from D3 or Demiurge talks to us at all anymore and why we don't know any of the current "whys" of MPQ.

Pretty much everyone in the thread said that they had no interest in hearing from devs at all, that players were not entitled to any of this information, and that they preferred to guess at the whys rather than having the actual answers.

That does not collate with my recollection. I think you exaggerated quite a bit then and are doing so now.

DAZ0273

entrailbucket said:

Godzillafan67 said:

entrailbucket said:

Phumade said:

Colognoisseur said:

When I had the opportunity to talk with Ice IX At NYCC seven years ago the why of LRs was simple. They were a place for players to mine iso. In those early days with a two character 4* tier and only 2&3* that was ideal. I played them like crazy and never found myself short of iso to keep up with new releases. Which is what was intended. Now they are obsoleted by all the developments since. I still play them because they were such a large part of my early time in MPQ. 

With Ice IX back with Demiurge, I'd be curious to hear his thoughts and if he sees any value in updating LRs to be relevant to the modern player.

@IceIX

A few weeks ago I went completely stark raving insane in another thread asking why nobody from D3 or Demiurge talks to us at all anymore and why we don't know any of the current "whys" of MPQ.

Pretty much everyone in the thread said that they had no interest in hearing from devs at all, that players were not entitled to any of this information, and that they preferred to guess at the whys rather than having the actual answers.

As I recall, everyone has just accepted the fact that the devs are silent entities (that may or may not lurk on these forums) and does not expect that to change regardless of our pleas. What upsets me is when I hear that the devs post/chat on discord or reddit instead of this, the official MPQ forum. I've been in-and-out of MPQ and was a longtime lurker before I joined and became a poster, and the only time I remember there being some positive comradery was when ICEIX was working this board and posting semi-regularly.

It wasn't that they've accepted it, though.  They thought that it was *unreasonable* to want to know such things -- that players not only had no right to this information, but that anyone who'd even dare to ask "why" was being entitled.  (That's why I went crazy)

We have so many debates on this forum about the devs' intentions that could be resolved in 10 seconds with a post from a red name, but apparently most of the players now have no interest in those answers.

"Most" - again this does not reflect reality from what happened in that thread, let alone the wider MPQ base who we have no idea about.

entrailbucket

DAZ0273 said:

entrailbucket said:

Phumade said:

Colognoisseur said:

When I had the opportunity to talk with Ice IX At NYCC seven years ago the why of LRs was simple. They were a place for players to mine iso. In those early days with a two character 4* tier and only 2&3* that was ideal. I played them like crazy and never found myself short of iso to keep up with new releases. Which is what was intended. Now they are obsoleted by all the developments since. I still play them because they were such a large part of my early time in MPQ. 

With Ice IX back with Demiurge, I'd be curious to hear his thoughts and if he sees any value in updating LRs to be relevant to the modern player.

@IceIX

A few weeks ago I went completely stark raving insane in another thread asking why nobody from D3 or Demiurge talks to us at all anymore and why we don't know any of the current "whys" of MPQ.

Pretty much everyone in the thread said that they had no interest in hearing from devs at all, that players were not entitled to any of this information, and that they preferred to guess at the whys rather than having the actual answers.

That does not collate with my recollection. I think you exaggerated quite a bit then and are doing so now.

Maybe!  Let's start over. 

Should we know why LR exist?  Would it be reasonable to ask them why?  Is that information relevant or useful to us?

DAZ0273

entrailbucket said:

DAZ0273 said:

entrailbucket said:

Phumade said:

Colognoisseur said:

When I had the opportunity to talk with Ice IX At NYCC seven years ago the why of LRs was simple. They were a place for players to mine iso. In those early days with a two character 4* tier and only 2&3* that was ideal. I played them like crazy and never found myself short of iso to keep up with new releases. Which is what was intended. Now they are obsoleted by all the developments since. I still play them because they were such a large part of my early time in MPQ. 

With Ice IX back with Demiurge, I'd be curious to hear his thoughts and if he sees any value in updating LRs to be relevant to the modern player.

@IceIX

A few weeks ago I went completely stark raving insane in another thread asking why nobody from D3 or Demiurge talks to us at all anymore and why we don't know any of the current "whys" of MPQ.

Pretty much everyone in the thread said that they had no interest in hearing from devs at all, that players were not entitled to any of this information, and that they preferred to guess at the whys rather than having the actual answers.

That does not collate with my recollection. I think you exaggerated quite a bit then and are doing so now.

Maybe!  Let's start over. 

Should we know why LR exist?  Would it be reasonable to ask them why?  Is that information relevant or useful to us?

Should we know? Not really - they exist. Why did certain characters get a themed PVE and others not? The Devs made their choices. Reasonable to ask? Sure. Relevant? Depends on a player's situational place in MPQ. Useful? As before.

Godzillafan67

entrailbucket said:

DAZ0273 said:

entrailbucket said:

Phumade said:

Colognoisseur said:

When I had the opportunity to talk with Ice IX At NYCC seven years ago the why of LRs was simple. They were a place for players to mine iso. In those early days with a two character 4* tier and only 2&3* that was ideal. I played them like crazy and never found myself short of iso to keep up with new releases. Which is what was intended. Now they are obsoleted by all the developments since. I still play them because they were such a large part of my early time in MPQ. 

With Ice IX back with Demiurge, I'd be curious to hear his thoughts and if he sees any value in updating LRs to be relevant to the modern player.

@IceIX

A few weeks ago I went completely stark raving insane in another thread asking why nobody from D3 or Demiurge talks to us at all anymore and why we don't know any of the current "whys" of MPQ.

Pretty much everyone in the thread said that they had no interest in hearing from devs at all, that players were not entitled to any of this information, and that they preferred to guess at the whys rather than having the actual answers.

That does not collate with my recollection. I think you exaggerated quite a bit then and are doing so now.

Maybe!  Let's start over. 

Should we know why LR exist?  Would it be reasonable to ask them why?  Is that information relevant or useful to us?

Wait, we aren't going to derail LRs like we did Halloween?!

Personally, I'd love more dev insight, engagement, and interaction. Though I'd pine for a better blog than "pairs well with Star-Lord", I'd take it for a start! I'd love to know if the LRs are running just because it would cost them more to turn them off. I'd love to discuss their purpose initial and continued purposes, ways to make them better, and methods to increase user engagement/benefit.

Sekilicious

I’d be fine with them axing LRs altogether and moving the iso earned there to regular PvP or PvE. I learned quite a while ago that if I’m farming iso from LRs then I burn out that much quicker. I don’t expect anyone will agree with me and am perfectly happy to continue to ignore them. 

entrailbucket

Godzillafan67 said:

entrailbucket said:

DAZ0273 said:

entrailbucket said:

Phumade said:

Colognoisseur said:

When I had the opportunity to talk with Ice IX At NYCC seven years ago the why of LRs was simple. They were a place for players to mine iso. In those early days with a two character 4* tier and only 2&3* that was ideal. I played them like crazy and never found myself short of iso to keep up with new releases. Which is what was intended. Now they are obsoleted by all the developments since. I still play them because they were such a large part of my early time in MPQ. 

With Ice IX back with Demiurge, I'd be curious to hear his thoughts and if he sees any value in updating LRs to be relevant to the modern player.

@IceIX

A few weeks ago I went completely stark raving insane in another thread asking why nobody from D3 or Demiurge talks to us at all anymore and why we don't know any of the current "whys" of MPQ.

Pretty much everyone in the thread said that they had no interest in hearing from devs at all, that players were not entitled to any of this information, and that they preferred to guess at the whys rather than having the actual answers.

That does not collate with my recollection. I think you exaggerated quite a bit then and are doing so now.

Maybe!  Let's start over. 

Should we know why LR exist?  Would it be reasonable to ask them why?  Is that information relevant or useful to us?

Wait, we aren't going to derail LRs like we did Halloween?!

Personally, I'd love more dev insight, engagement, and interaction. Though I'd pine for a better blog than "pairs well with Star-Lord", I'd take it for a start! I'd love to know if the LRs are running just because it would cost them more to turn them off. I'd love to discuss their purpose initial and continued purposes, ways to make them better, and methods to increase user engagement/benefit.

Absolutely not, I'm not doing that again!

I do wonder what kind of updates they could realistically make to LR that players might like.

If you go all the way back, a lot of people played them for placement, to get the covers, which were extremely useful back then.  If they changed up LR to reward something similar for placement today (like, oh, say 100 5* shards), I don't know if that would go over too well.

Bad

Another time, there are vets who are lost in their situation in game and also don't want to hear anything more, LR exists for to harvest iso.
Yes, that iso is like dirt garbage for them but, you know? there are people joining the game and they need iso. 
Others players continue playing and rostering all the characters: that is middle progression now, where I am, they need iso and heroics. They will not play all seasons from tuesday to thuesday, it would be crazy, but when they can they will play the seed teams.  Sometimes I can rank at the final seconds and gain heroics too.
There is the appealing factor to new players that I mentioned. I think there is no more mistery.
Now you can make another thread and call it: "Devs! Come here and repport whatever we wanted at once!"

Phumade

Bad said:

Another time, there are vets who are lost in their situation in game and also don't want to hear anything more, LR exists for to harvest iso.
Yes, that iso is like dirt garbage for them but, you know? there are people joining the game and they need iso. 
Others players continue playing and rostering all the characters: that is middle progression now, where I am, they need iso and heroics. They will not play all seasons from tuesday to thuesday, it would be crazy, but when they can they will play the seed teams.  Sometimes I can rank at the final seconds and gain heroics too.
There is the appealing factor to new players that I mentioned. I think there is no more mistery.
Now you can make another thread and call it: "Devs! Come here and repport whatever we wanted at once!"

Why not do both?  Nobody advocates getting rid of iso.  Just make it relevant to the 4*+ players?

I don't understand why they can't make events that appeal to all segments of the game?  I've always advocated for  that.

At the end of the day what are you really advocating for?  The middle tier at the expense of the high end players?

I think you can easily make a dynamic event thats fun for high end players to participate in and still allow mid tier players to harvest iso and resources.

I don't understand why you try to divide the playerbase when we should all grow together.

hothie

I guess I was just the opposite. Early on, I didn't play LR because the teams I faced off against were just too good for me to have any shot at winning. So I ignored LR's for a long time, until I could reasonably get to 250 points with my roster. Now I need the iso, so I play them, but would be fine if that iso were to be distributed amongst pve or pvp. My 2* farm enjoy the rewards as well, be they from wins directly or from Heroics. But in order for me to get top 100, I have to be playing within the last 15 minutes of it ending. I get pummeled the rest of the time.

StanleyBurrell

When I was playing LR I thought it would be neat to at minimum rotate thru all the 3*’s. I may play em occasionally if they did 3,4,5’s.

HoundofShadow

It's impossible to make all segments of players happy with one event. As a matter of fact, I don't think there exists a game developer that can make something that appeals to all segments of players. 

Even BOP, which is the most balanced of all pvps, get flakes from higher rosters because they can't bulldoze 2*-4* players when they break mmr. 

If you make the rewards better for higher tier players, lower tiers players will say that the dev create pvps for whales to play. If history is any indicator, it has been proven multiple times that 5* players and non-5* players can't co-exist. Pre-nerfed Bishop brought out the ugly sides of both parties. Of course, I can foresee the dev getting blamed for this mess. 

Bad

The only way to make events who could entice all players is to separate them into levels and giving the same rewards for every level, from a gauntlet level 200 to the highest at level 700. That would be new content. 
But if nobody supports that (being us a playerbase so proved at being grow together), and if devs took the effort to actually do it, then the complaining will be huge and the catch phrase would be: "I won't play a event offering trash rewards".
In the event is almost hillarious. 

Phumade

I'm not so sure why people got fixated on rewards?  I don't think I ever mentioned the rewards for LRs or really for any events.  I personally don't care about the rewards, like I said earlier in other threads,  my roster was built to be independent of results.  So I think I'm actually well positioned (outside of Colog and Entrail who are actually bigger and older rosters) to comment on event and reward design.  

Keep the focus on making events interesting and exciting for all tiers of play.  That means create rule sets that encourage all kinds of roster usage including exclusive 3* events and 4* events or dare I say 5* events.  Lets be real.  When events rotate every 2hrs, its not unreasonable to have events cater to a specific roster type, or playstyle.

Like I acknowledged earlier,  a rotating set of rules would create new challenges and disrupt existing playstyles to force players to adapt. 

I would love to see a sniper style event where hitting only the 10 highest scores yields point, and the instant a player drops to 11, any subsequent hits yield no points.  To me creates timing issues that could only be solved through communications or understanding play psychology.  Even the biggest hitters in PVP know their rosters can be easily beat once point consequences are removed from the equation.

So just as there is an infinite range of character powers,  there's an infinite range of event designs.

Lets actually put on our critical thinking caps about how you could redevelop LRs to provide the same ISO rewards but actually make it interesting for all tiers of play (at least for Year 9, and maybe refresh for Year 10)

So Ballpark estimation.

If we charitably assume there are 1000 Players per LR who play 10 matches worth 50 iso per match.  It seems that 500 iso per LR event is a good ballpark estimation.  So why not replace one of the lr events with a 2hr introducing ... popup event?  You could easily replace the shards with a token to have similar style events.

I think your issues are reward fixation (trust me I was once there too),  but at the high tier players just want new ways to explore their new chars and chat with old alliance members.  

To tie this pack to my original topic. 
A FAILURE by devs to update old events just kills playbase engagement and devolves the event into a mere resource chase.  Even a simple modification to new releases or rotation of off season events would allow players to engage in new combos and playstyles.