Kahmon said: @brigby one thing is not clear. If only playing for progression rewards, are points still lost from losses or are progression and placement points separate?
Wumpushunter said: Spudgutter said: Wumpushunter said: Win base without season is so half-hearted, just keep it. It's a fools compromise. Pvp with out 90% of the rewards. Someone who is able to get 4000 per season still will. The change just means they could put in extra effort and get extra rewards in turn.So they are going to get more rewards, not less. And actually, because they will be playing more matches, they may actually get more points per season. What 90 percent are you talking about? Soul stone season event progression rewards, elite token, 1000 iso, 50 hero tokens, 75 iso, 3 star cover, and more and thats only at CL7. Really the only change for win based will be 2 or 3 new progression awards per PVP event for those that couldn't get over the hump.
Spudgutter said: Wumpushunter said: Win base without season is so half-hearted, just keep it. It's a fools compromise. Pvp with out 90% of the rewards. Someone who is able to get 4000 per season still will. The change just means they could put in extra effort and get extra rewards in turn.So they are going to get more rewards, not less. And actually, because they will be playing more matches, they may actually get more points per season. What 90 percent are you talking about?
Wumpushunter said: Win base without season is so half-hearted, just keep it. It's a fools compromise. Pvp with out 90% of the rewards.
Tensuun said: Pleasantly surprised by all the positive reactions in this thread. Here I was thinking there would inevitably be complaints about yet another change that doesn't take anything away from anyone.veny said: 1st - NO WAY 75 wins is equal to 1200 points. NO WAY! Same for the difference between 900 and 1000 points and 40 and 50 wins. 1 win is the equivalent of 10 points? Really?2nd - I may sound negative, but the only thing this system changes is the frustration of endless grinding caused by situation when player is losing points faster than gaining them from games won.Main problem (unballanced teams, very difficult teams, cruel requirements with poor rewards) remain and number of wins is way too big, compared with points gained per average match.3rd - Lets be honest and constructive - PvE is easier with roster growing. PvP? Exactly the opposite. Grinding is way too cruel and rewards are pathetic compared to PvE... at least for players like me who spend 2 hours in game every day.My suggestion is very simple (it also doesnt entirely fix PvP, but gives your change much better impact people may appreciate) :1) Instead of wins, call it Kills2) Kills required will be 2 times amount of wins. F.e. instead of 75 wins or 1200 points, you need 150 kills or 1200 points. What kills? Kills of opponents characters. With up to 3 killed opponents per match "win" amount is reduced by 33%. The pain of loss will also partially dissapear since killed enemies also count, not only games wonOR, Kills required will be 3 times amount of wins (225 kills instead of 75 wins) and characters killed while defending will also count.Think about that - dont want to sound intimidating or so, but this your change doesnt change much for most players and i this simply wont make me come back to PvP.Before posting this, i tried one match - took me 3 minutes against two maxed 2*s (I have OML and Phoenix so...). Without America Chaves being required character, it would take longer and result wouldnt be that positive. I managed to win, but my team lost half hitpoints. I am sure 75 wins in 2 days is not doable for me. And i dont even want to double the amount of time spent.Oh and i was figting some weakling anyway, since i had only 200 points - since 700 points, true OP combos come in, like 5* Gambit etc. Oh, there it is.1. Most of the time, I'll probably get to 900 points before I've accumulated 40 wins. But, sometimes I rack up 35 or so wins (I lose count as generally I grind PVP while performing some other activity), climb to 870 points, and then run out of health packs, come back an hour later, and see a screen telling me I've just lost 185 points to attackers. That feels bad, especially because I start to get the feeling that if I try to win my points back, I'll just keep getting attacked more often the closer I get to 900. If I know I can get that next prize even if other people keep attacking me, as long as I can win another handful of matches eventually, I'll keep playing. Maybe I'll hit 900 points before I get the win total anyway. The point is partly psychological here.2. Yes, that is exactly the problem that this addresses. It isn't perfect, but if I scrape my knee and somebody offers me a band-aid, I'm not going to complain that they didn't sew me up.3. I'm not sure what your point is, really. PVE is more rewarding for less effort put in, yes. PVP is more grindy. Another difference is that if you play enough PVE, you run out of things to do, while in PVP you can always grind more. (Well, not always -- if you run out of health packs and viable character teams, you're done, but that's a much softer and faster-recharging limit than the PVE "you have already earned all possible points for this node" thing.)Nothing in this game will ever be called "Kills", partly because many characters like Spider-Man* canonically never do this (they "down" people instead), and partly because... well, it's supposed to be a family-friendly game. Think of the children!(*Actually, it's heavily implied the reason Otto Octavius' original body died was because Spider-Man gave him a zillion concussions over the years, so it sort of depends on whether you define "lethal force" in terms of immediate effect, or cumulative, but whatever.)
veny said: 1st - NO WAY 75 wins is equal to 1200 points. NO WAY! Same for the difference between 900 and 1000 points and 40 and 50 wins. 1 win is the equivalent of 10 points? Really?2nd - I may sound negative, but the only thing this system changes is the frustration of endless grinding caused by situation when player is losing points faster than gaining them from games won.Main problem (unballanced teams, very difficult teams, cruel requirements with poor rewards) remain and number of wins is way too big, compared with points gained per average match.3rd - Lets be honest and constructive - PvE is easier with roster growing. PvP? Exactly the opposite. Grinding is way too cruel and rewards are pathetic compared to PvE... at least for players like me who spend 2 hours in game every day.My suggestion is very simple (it also doesnt entirely fix PvP, but gives your change much better impact people may appreciate) :1) Instead of wins, call it Kills2) Kills required will be 2 times amount of wins. F.e. instead of 75 wins or 1200 points, you need 150 kills or 1200 points. What kills? Kills of opponents characters. With up to 3 killed opponents per match "win" amount is reduced by 33%. The pain of loss will also partially dissapear since killed enemies also count, not only games wonOR, Kills required will be 3 times amount of wins (225 kills instead of 75 wins) and characters killed while defending will also count.Think about that - dont want to sound intimidating or so, but this your change doesnt change much for most players and i this simply wont make me come back to PvP.Before posting this, i tried one match - took me 3 minutes against two maxed 2*s (I have OML and Phoenix so...). Without America Chaves being required character, it would take longer and result wouldnt be that positive. I managed to win, but my team lost half hitpoints. I am sure 75 wins in 2 days is not doable for me. And i dont even want to double the amount of time spent.Oh and i was figting some weakling anyway, since i had only 200 points - since 700 points, true OP combos come in, like 5* Gambit etc.
HoundofShadow said: Basically, more rewards for the least amount of effort possible or lesser effort to get more rewards. That's what is missing.For those pitching to reduce 75 wins to even fewer wins, chances are you will be hit with MMR by the 15th win. Based on my experience, it took me less than 15 wins to hit 725 points. By then I would be seeing team that are much stronger than mine.
Nick441234 said: Would I be right in thinking we dont lose points when we are hit now then?
Spudgutter said: Wumpushunter said: Spudgutter said: Wumpushunter said: Win base without season is so half-hearted, just keep it. It's a fools compromise. Pvp with out 90% of the rewards. Someone who is able to get 4000 per season still will. The change just means they could put in extra effort and get extra rewards in turn.So they are going to get more rewards, not less. And actually, because they will be playing more matches, they may actually get more points per season. What 90 percent are you talking about? Soul stone season event progression rewards, elite token, 1000 iso, 50 hero tokens, 75 iso, 3 star cover, and more and thats only at CL7. Really the only change for win based will be 2 or 3 new progression awards per PVP event for those that couldn't get over the hump. ?????????????if you were getting around 300 per pvp and 1k in Sim, you got the 4k reward. totally doable with effort. Now, if they put in more effort, they get a **guaranteed**: 50 hp, 750 iso, 10 cp, event token, 65 riso, 50 hp, 3* cover, 2000 iso, event token and a 4* cove at CL7. FOR EVERY EVENT. multiply that by 10.and you are upset that this doesn't include 4 rewards past 4k? which at CL9 are: 2250 iso, 580 riso, 100hp, and 15 cp. Seriously? while totally ignoring the fact that by pushing for these higher rewards, it is almost entirely likely that they will end up with a higher season score, and get one or more of those rewards? am i missing something here?
This is an excellent compromise and you will be getting more 3* and 4* covers if you are not getting it in the current system.
Wumpushunter said: The entire point of win based pvp is that the people win based was there to help wasnt getting 4k a season. They were getting slaughtered and their points reduced. So by stating hey you got points, you get rewards. No. The points are gone to the wind. -18 -6 -22 - 24 . The entire point of win based is to prevent trying to keep 4k from vanishing. And yet its still happening on the season this is a half compromise. No one gets less on progression if more people hit certain marks. It makes no sense to exclude season progression under wins.