Update to Versus Reward Structure (6/20/18)

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Comments

  • Jexman
    Jexman Posts: 165 Tile Toppler
    This is great, thank you devs!
  • Magic
    Magic Posts: 1,199 Chairperson of the Boards
    The change is fine for me. I will probably not benefit much from it as the MMR is still a pain. But on an odd chance I am bored - I might have fun and just win some more rewards. This change is positive for a big chunk of player base and has not negative effect on the people who don't care about it (actually even for the ones that care only about points it will be helpful - more players in the PvP events = more targets). This is what we cal QoL improvement. 

    It would of course be better if the number of required wins was lowered (say 30 for a 4*, 35 for the 1k Riso and 55 for the CP at the end). 

    I sense that this will also mean the nerf to Gambit as he can plow through non-gambit 20 points team with ease on the way to 40-75 wins. 
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    Magic said:


    I sense that this will also mean the nerf to Gambit as he can plow through non-gambit 20 points team with ease on the way to 40-75 wins. 
    Anyone running Gambit will run out of non-Gambit teams after 8 wins.
    Which is why we complained about the number of wins - 5* players see nothing but other champed 5s from 0 points, so to grind out 40 wins against those teams was madness.
  • Magic
    Magic Posts: 1,199 Chairperson of the Boards
    Maybe my MMR is better Bowgentle but I can still see non-gambit team around 900 points (i don't go further) but they are not worth the points (maybe around 15-20 at best). And I never bothered with them. Fighting Gambit with Gambit is easy enough to actually pick a 50+ worth enemies (the exception would be Gambolt pair - the only one I would skip). The 900 to 1200 might be a different conversation. But that is clearly past the 8 matches. 
  • jamesh
    jamesh Posts: 1,600 Chairperson of the Boards
    Wumpushunter said:
    Spudgutter said:
    Wumpushunter said:
    Spudgutter said:
    Wumpushunter said:
    Win base without season is so half-hearted,  just keep it. It's  a fools compromise. Pvp with out 90% of the rewards. 
    Someone who is able to get 4000 per season still will.  The change just means they could put in extra effort and get extra rewards in turn.

    So they are going to get more rewards, not less. And actually, because they will be playing more matches, they may actually get more points per season.  What 90 percent are you talking about?
    Soul stone season event progression rewards, elite token, 1000 iso, 50 hero tokens, 75 iso, 3 star cover, and more and thats only at CL7.  Really the only change for win based will be 2 or 3 new progression awards per PVP event for those that couldn't get over the hump.
    ?????????????

    if you were getting around 300 per pvp and 1k in Sim, you got the 4k reward.  totally doable with effort.  Now, if they put in more effort, they get a **guaranteed**:  50 hp, 750 iso, 10 cp, event token, 65 riso, 50 hp, 3* cover, 2000 iso, event token and a 4* cove at CL7.  FOR EVERY EVENT.  multiply that by 10.

    and you are upset that this doesn't include 4 rewards past 4k?  which at CL9 are: 2250 iso, 580 riso, 100hp, and 15 cp.  Seriously?  while totally ignoring the fact that by pushing for these higher rewards, it is almost entirely likely that they will end up with a higher season score, and get one or more of those rewards?  am i missing something here?
    The entire point of win based pvp is that the people win based was there to help wasnt getting 4k a season. They were getting slaughtered and their points reduced. So by stating hey you got points, you get rewards. No. The points are gone to the wind. -18 -6 -22 - 24 . The entire point of win based is to prevent trying to keep 4k from vanishing. And yet its still happening on the season this is a half compromise.  No one gets less on progression if more people hit certain marks. It makes no sense to exclude season progression under wins.
    The 10-pack you get at 4k season progression has about a 50% chance of giving you a 4* cover, and will probably give you ~ seven 2* covers.  Over ten events in the season, I suspect you'll be able to easily achieve much better additional rewards than you're likely to see in that 10-pack.

    And that's not even counting the possibility that you may be able to score higher under this system: if people play more matches, then there will be more points available in the time slice, which is likely to benefit everyone's scores.
  • Projectus2501
    Projectus2501 Posts: 218 Tile Toppler
    mbaren said:
    Listen, I'm sure someone will come along and tell us all how terrible this is, but in the meantime I think this is pretty great, and will definitely help people like me who are getting smacked down by 5*s because they were stupid enough to level one 5* too high.  So I appreciate it.
    This, although 75 wins is a LOT...
  • RayElwood
    RayElwood Posts: 13 Just Dropped In
    This change makes me so happy

     :D  :D
  • guzktgui
    guzktgui Posts: 35 Just Dropped In
    This changes seem very nice, regarding Gambit I don't want him nerfed but I would certainly appreciate having the chance to play against somebody else (all my nodes in pvp simulator include Gambit)
  • Felessa
    Felessa Posts: 161 Tile Toppler
    As someone who just got the 4* cover in Versus progression for the first time during the wins tests, I'm extremely happy with this! Thank you very much for listen both sides of players!
  • ammenell
    ammenell Posts: 817 Critical Contributor
    im usually playing the negativity troll with my few posts here and there, but you just leave me no other choice...

    this is awesome, thank you. 


  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
    guzktgui said:
    This changes seem very nice, regarding Gambit I don't want him nerfed but I would certainly appreciate having the chance to play against somebody else (all my nodes in pvp simulator include Gambit)
    He's not just getting nerfed he's getting gutted.

    RIP

    He was too good tho, basically could do everything. He was actually more fair before the "nerf" that took away some of the ap gen and gave him an ap drain.


    From the  sounds of it he's about to pay for his sins....
  • hunky_funky
    hunky_funky Posts: 111 Tile Toppler
    Cheers to the devs team! Lot's of new good things was introduced recently. I wonder, can we get some increased rewards maybe? Just a little bit... Please please please.
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    Wumpushunter said:
    Spudgutter said:
    Wumpushunter said:
    Spudgutter said:
    Wumpushunter said:
    Win base without season is so half-hearted,  just keep it. It's  a fools compromise. Pvp with out 90% of the rewards. 
    Someone who is able to get 4000 per season still will.  The change just means they could put in extra effort and get extra rewards in turn.

    So they are going to get more rewards, not less. And actually, because they will be playing more matches, they may actually get more points per season.  What 90 percent are you talking about?
    Soul stone season event progression rewards, elite token, 1000 iso, 50 hero tokens, 75 iso, 3 star cover, and more and thats only at CL7.  Really the only change for win based will be 2 or 3 new progression awards per PVP event for those that couldn't get over the hump.
    ?????????????

    if you were getting around 300 per pvp and 1k in Sim, you got the 4k reward.  totally doable with effort.  Now, if they put in more effort, they get a **guaranteed**:  50 hp, 750 iso, 10 cp, event token, 65 riso, 50 hp, 3* cover, 2000 iso, event token and a 4* cove at CL7.  FOR EVERY EVENT.  multiply that by 10.

    and you are upset that this doesn't include 4 rewards past 4k?  which at CL9 are: 2250 iso, 580 riso, 100hp, and 15 cp.  Seriously?  while totally ignoring the fact that by pushing for these higher rewards, it is almost entirely likely that they will end up with a higher season score, and get one or more of those rewards?  am i missing something here?
    The entire point of win based pvp is that the people win based was there to help wasnt getting 4k a season. They were getting slaughtered and their points reduced. So by stating hey you got points, you get rewards. No. The points are gone to the wind. -18 -6 -22 - 24 . The entire point of win based is to prevent trying to keep 4k from vanishing. And yet its still happening on the season this is a half compromise.  No one gets less on progression if more people hit certain marks. It makes no sense to exclude season progression under wins.
    The "entire reason" for wins based is about the individual rewards every pvp event, not the season.  You are the only one focusing on a small amount of rewards still being possibly unavailable, while most of us who have been around for awhile know that a rising tide raises all ships.  Not sure if you dont see it, or don't want to see it.

    If anyone still thinks this is not a good compromise, find me on line, i would love to hear a good counter arguement.  I just feel like you are possibly being obtuse on purpose, just to troll, and i won't engage any more on that.
  • AlexNapalm
    AlexNapalm Posts: 122 Tile Toppler
    Super good! Nice change!
  • veny
    veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
    edited June 2018
    Bowgentle said:
    Magic said:


    I sense that this will also mean the nerf to Gambit as he can plow through non-gambit 20 points team with ease on the way to 40-75 wins. 
    Anyone running Gambit will run out of non-Gambit teams after 8 wins.
    Which is why we complained about the number of wins - 5* players see nothing but other champed 5s from 0 points, so to grind out 40 wins against those teams was madness.
    I literally never won against maxed 5* Gambit no matter what team i used. I have champed 5* OML and Phoenix and then only champed 4*s so its not surprising, but advices like "sell them" or "get Gambit too" are useless, since PvP is broken after you enter 5* land. Why? Because fighting against 5*s requires either many 5*s (which normal player dont and cant have) or tons of heals.

    75 wins during 3 days is way too much and for lower tiers (up to 575 points) we dont even need win-based system.
  • ZeiramMR
    ZeiramMR Posts: 1,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    AlexR said:

    Wumpushunter said:
    The entire point of win based pvp is that the people win based was there to help wasnt getting 4k a season. They were getting slaughtered and their points reduced. So by stating hey you got points, you get rewards. No. The points are gone to the wind. -18 -6 -22 - 24 . The entire point of win based is to prevent trying to keep 4k from vanishing. And yet its still happening on the season this is a half compromise.  No one gets less on progression if more people hit certain marks. It makes no sense to exclude season progression under wins.
    ??

    While I'm sure there are people struggling with 4k, the majority of people I've come across does not want win-based to reach 4k in season. For the casual pvp crowd that doesn't climb higher than 400-575pts 4k a season is still comfortably attainable. Heck, even if you get pushed down to 300 every pvp event, you can still make up the difference in Sim. Reaching 4k in seasons is really not overly difficult as long as you're in early 3* land. Heck, might even be doable in 2-3* transition; I can't remember when exactly I started going for 400 per pvp event (for the HP), but it was around that time.

    No, most people I've seen, who want wins-based because they can't reach a goal, want it to reach the specific 3/4* covers at 800/900 pts. Mostly the 4* covers at 900, though I've also seen ambitious lower rosters frustrated at not being able to get any 3* covers from it.

    4k in season is doable with points, even for the more casual crowd and developing rosters. The main cover rewards are not.
    There's one more demographic that benefits from win-based AND struggles with 4000... people who leveled characters in a way that pushed their MMR higher than they realistically are.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
    Nick441234 said:
    Aww, thats a shame then. Would have been nice to have been able to play more casually over the 2 and a half days. I shall remain on my joining in the last 3 hours schedule then. 

    Good change nonetheless. 
    I think you've missed the point, as it were. Although your points will still go down, you can alternately get the progression prizes simply by winning, regardless of points. If you win 40 times, you still get that 4* cover, even if you somehow only have 5 points. So you can absolutely play casually for the whole 2.5 days.
  • BoyWonder1914
    BoyWonder1914 Posts: 884 Critical Contributor
    So glad they finally listened to us, and offered a solution that truly makes both sides of the coin happy. 75 wins still seems a bit stiff for the Wins-Based supporters, considering that 4x PVE clears is 40, but hey, not my concern anymore. Great stuff!

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