Update to Versus Reward Structure (6/20/18)

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Comments

  • Tensuun
    Tensuun Posts: 99 Match Maker
    Pleasantly surprised by all the positive reactions in this thread. Here I was thinking there would inevitably be complaints about yet another change that doesn't take anything away from anyone.
    veny said:

    1st - NO WAY 75 wins is equal to 1200 points. NO WAY! Same for the difference between 900 and 1000 points and 40 and 50 wins. 1 win is the equivalent of 10 points? Really?
    2nd - I may sound negative, but the only thing this system changes is the frustration of endless grinding caused by situation when player is losing points faster than gaining them from games won.
    Main problem (unballanced teams, very difficult teams, cruel requirements with poor rewards) remain and number of wins is way too big, compared with points gained per average match.
    3rd - Lets be honest and constructive - PvE is easier with roster growing. PvP? Exactly the opposite. Grinding is way too cruel and rewards are pathetic compared to PvE... at least for players like me who spend 2 hours in game every day.

    My suggestion is very simple (it also doesnt entirely fix PvP, but gives your change much better impact people may appreciate) :
    1) Instead of wins, call it Kills
    2) Kills required will be 2 times amount of wins. F.e. instead of 75 wins or 1200 points, you need 150 kills or 1200 points. What kills? Kills of opponents characters. With up to 3 killed opponents per match "win" amount is reduced by 33%. The pain of loss will also partially dissapear since killed enemies also count, not only games won

    OR, Kills required will be 3 times amount of wins (225 kills instead of 75 wins) and characters killed while defending will also count.

    Think about that - dont want to sound intimidating or so, but this your change doesnt change much for most players and i this simply wont make me come back to PvP.
    Before posting this, i tried one match - took me 3 minutes against two maxed 2*s (I have OML and Phoenix so...). Without America Chaves being required character, it would take longer and result wouldnt be that positive. I managed to win, but my team lost half hitpoints. I am sure 75 wins in 2 days is not doable for me. And i dont even want to double the amount of time spent.
    Oh and i was figting some weakling anyway, since i had only 200 points - since 700 points, true OP combos come in, like 5* Gambit etc.
    Oh, there it is.

    1. Most of the time, I'll probably get to 900 points before I've accumulated 40 wins. But, sometimes I rack up 35 or so wins (I lose count as generally I grind PVP while performing some other activity), climb to 870 points, and then run out of health packs, come back an hour later, and see a screen telling me I've just lost 185 points to attackers. That feels bad, especially because I start to get the feeling that if I try to win my points back, I'll just keep getting attacked more often the closer I get to 900. If I know I can get that next prize even if other people keep attacking me, as long as I can win another handful of matches eventually, I'll keep playing. Maybe I'll hit 900 points before I get the win total anyway. The point is partly psychological here.

    2. Yes, that is exactly the problem that this addresses. It isn't perfect, but if I scrape my knee and somebody offers me a band-aid, I'm not going to complain that they didn't sew me up.

    3. I'm not sure what your point is, really. PVE is more rewarding for less effort put in, yes. PVP is more grindy. Another difference is that if you play enough PVE, you run out of things to do, while in PVP you can always grind more. (Well, not always -- if you run out of health packs and viable character teams, you're done, but that's a much softer and faster-recharging limit than the PVE "you have already earned all possible points for this node" thing.)

    Nothing in this game will ever be called "Kills", partly because many characters like Spider-Man* canonically never do this (they "down" people instead), and partly because... well, it's supposed to be a family-friendly game. Think of the children!

    (*Actually, it's heavily implied the reason Otto Octavius' original body died was because Spider-Man gave him a zillion concussions over the years, so it sort of depends on whether you define "lethal force" in terms of immediate effect, or cumulative, but whatever.)
  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,503 Chairperson of the Boards
    the alternative wins based progression will also be great for allowing those 3* /4* the ability to keep churning matches in that 700-900 range.  More matches there will build points for everyone.

    Front runners already bear too much of the workload for growing points.  This will create incentives for players to keep churning matches in that middle zone where points are still cumulative to the crowd.

    Overall,  I points and scoring will grow as more matches get played.

  • Wumpushunter
    Wumpushunter Posts: 627 Critical Contributor
    Win base without season is so half-hearted,  just keep it. It's  a fools compromise. Pvp with out 90% of the rewards. 
  • STOPTHIS
    STOPTHIS Posts: 781 Critical Contributor
    Just when I think I'm out, you pull me back in.
  • JSP869
    JSP869 Posts: 824 Critical Contributor
    HoundofShadow said:
    Wonderful! 

    For those complaining about 75 wins being too much for 15cp, chances are you couldn't get them anyway before this hybrid system. 

    A very nice change that satisfies 90% of the players here.
    I went after the 4* cover at 900 points a couple of times and I got there but it was painful, like trying to run up a downwards escalator. With my roster (50+ 4* champions, but no 5* champs) there was no way I could get the 15 CP so for me it may as well never have existed.

    I'll still never go after it with the wins-based system, because if I had the type of roster that could rack up 75 wins in an event I'd be getting there with points instead.

    This is a great compromise, and as you noted anyone complaining about needing 75 wins for the CP either had zero chance of getting it under the old system so it's fair that they still have almost no chance via wins-based, or they do have the roster to hit 1200 points and get the CP in which case they can still get the CP by getting 1200 points which they'll get with far fewer than 75 wins, so them complaining about the number of wins is incomprehensible.


  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,760 Chairperson of the Boards
    I will say thank you to the devs for a hybrid system and figuring this out.  I am someone who hits 1200 points per event so this won’t effect my play but will help a lot of other players achieve their goal.  I felt the total number of wins is a little too high especially the way MMR works, and I hope over time based on the stats they can be lowered so more players can get the rewards.

    overall thanks for listening to the players.
  • sirwookieechris
    sirwookieechris Posts: 131 Tile Toppler
    JSP869 said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    Wonderful! 

    For those complaining about 75 wins being too much for 15cp, chances are you couldn't get them anyway before this hybrid system. 

    A very nice change that satisfies 90% of the players here.
    I went after the 4* cover at 900 points a couple of times and I got there but it was painful, like trying to run up a downwards escalator. With my roster (50+ 4* champions, but no 5* champs) there was no way I could get the 15 CP so for me it may as well never have existed.

    I'll still never go after it with the wins-based system, because if I had the type of roster that could rack up 75 wins in an event I'd be getting there with points instead.

    This is a great compromise, and as you noted anyone complaining about needing 75 wins for the CP either had zero chance of getting it under the old system so it's fair that they still have almost no chance via wins-based, or they do have the roster to hit 1200 points and get the CP in which case they can still get the CP by getting 1200 points which they'll get with far fewer than 75 wins, so them complaining about the number of wins is incomprehensible.


    I am in a similar boat to you. This past event (Wiccans) I had a bunch of boosted 4*- carol, deadpool, c&d, and x23. I used the loaner Wiccan since my 2/1/2 was bullied in it’s pve essential node. Almost all of my matches to 900 were mirror matches against carol and either deadpool or c&d. The last 100 was painful but I got there with the last of my health packs. This change makes it worth it to switch things up and bring fresh but weaker boosted like x23.
  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,210 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
    I honestly have zero chance of hitting 1200. 75 wins for me feesl like it's possible to hit. 
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    edited June 2018
    Wumpushunter said:
    Win base without season is so half-hearted,  just keep it. It's  a fools compromise. Pvp with out 90% of the rewards. 
    Someone who is able to get 4000 per season still will.  The change just means they could put in extra effort and get extra rewards in turn.

    So they are going to get more rewards, not less. And actually, because they will be playing more matches, they may actually get more points per season.  What 90 percent are you talking about?
  • Jadams78
    Jadams78 Posts: 14 Just Dropped In
    I love this! I never really had a problem getting up to 575 pts for the 10 co. It's after that wham is always continuously get knocked down to the point I would just quit on the rest of the rewards out of frustration. 
  • Wumpushunter
    Wumpushunter Posts: 627 Critical Contributor
    Spudgutter said:
    Wumpushunter said:
    Win base without season is so half-hearted,  just keep it. It's  a fools compromise. Pvp with out 90% of the rewards. 
    Someone who is able to get 4000 per season still will.  The change just means they could put in extra effort and get extra rewards in turn.

    So they are going to get more rewards, not less. And actually, because they will be playing more matches, they may actually get more points per season.  What 90 percent are you talking about?
    Soul stone season event progression rewards, elite token, 1000 iso, 50 hero tokens, 75 iso, 3 star cover, and more and thats only at CL7.  Really the only change for win based will be 2 or 3 new progression awards per PVP event for those that couldn't get over the hump.
  • Pr0spect0r
    Pr0spect0r Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    through 4 pages only 4 complaints, i think thats a new record. i havent touched pvp in ages, so now i have a reason to play it. and here i was just bored with the game now i have something else to do and can be rewarded for with out sacrificing mental health
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:
    LifeofAgony said:
    Kudos for giving participation trophies?  There is already a mechanic in game (pve) that allows you to get the big time rewards without having to truly compete.

    Did pvp really need the same treatment?
    Um... winning 75 matches every event certainly doesn’t SEEM like a participation trophy to me. 
    "You ran the entire marathon without stopping once. Whadya want? A medal or something!?"
  • smkspy
    smkspy Posts: 2,024 Chairperson of the Boards
    I like it...will complain later.
  • Kahmon
    Kahmon Posts: 625 Critical Contributor
    This is wonderful news and it comes at a great time for me as I just transitioned into 5* territory.

    When I previously advocated for win based pvp, the players with big rosters kept saying how much it sucked for 5* players. So far I don't feel that way. I'm enjoying taking on more challenging teams with my stronger roster.

    What I have noticed is that I am now one of the smallest fish in a bigger pond and have a big target on my back when I play. This had made my biggest complaint about pvp even worse: getting hit even more despite being able to beat stronger teams. As a result, my placement has suffered greatly.

    I'm not sure if I'll grind all the way to 75 very often, but having only even reached 1000 once, it's nice to know the CPs are possible now.

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