PenniesForEveryone said: There have been a finite number of events that have occurred, therefore the amount of HP/CP that could have possibly been earned in those events up until this date is also finite. (without spending)
Dormammu said: PenniesForEveryone said: There have been a finite number of events that have occurred, therefore the amount of HP/CP that could have possibly been earned in those events up until this date is also finite. (without spending) He's got a point, here.And I think we all agree that its why we farm 2-stars and advise newer players to do it.
Pants1000 said: aesthetocyst said: PenniesForEveryone said: Farming is a thing because it allows you to exchange [readily available] resources (ISO and 2* covers) for ... resources [that are more constrained] (HP and CP). Maybe the above suggested edit will help reunite the clans, and get us all back to humbly farming our own plots.Guess Brigby hasnt had a chance to start a thread for his question. The answer is: the fact that we managed to make lemonade, and that the lemonade is "ok", does not imply we want more lemons. We just had to do something with the lemons at hand. That language works better. I get what Pennies is saying, because you can play an infinite number of PVP matches and earn 2* covers and ISO, but you’ll never get CP or HP doing that except through farming.
aesthetocyst said: PenniesForEveryone said: Farming is a thing because it allows you to exchange [readily available] resources (ISO and 2* covers) for ... resources [that are more constrained] (HP and CP). Maybe the above suggested edit will help reunite the clans, and get us all back to humbly farming our own plots.Guess Brigby hasnt had a chance to start a thread for his question. The answer is: the fact that we managed to make lemonade, and that the lemonade is "ok", does not imply we want more lemons. We just had to do something with the lemons at hand.
PenniesForEveryone said: Farming is a thing because it allows you to exchange [readily available] resources (ISO and 2* covers) for ... resources [that are more constrained] (HP and CP).
NeonBlue said: To use a related word: limited. Without spending real money, the amount of HP and CP gained is LIMITED per day, which means there is a hard cap. ISO on the other hand is not limited. There may be a soft cap in terms of ISO gained through event rewards, but since you gain ISO for PvP wins, there is never a hard upper cap.
Hadronic said: NeonBlue said: To use a related word: limited. Without spending real money, the amount of HP and CP gained is LIMITED per day, which means there is a hard cap. ISO on the other hand is not limited. There may be a soft cap in terms of ISO gained through event rewards, but since you gain ISO for PvP wins, there is never a hard upper cap. Time to be that guy again, but there is a Limit to the number of matches you can play in a day. Ask the old tappers to learn what that limit is.
NeonBlue said: Hadronic said: NeonBlue said: To use a related word: limited. Without spending real money, the amount of HP and CP gained is LIMITED per day, which means there is a hard cap. ISO on the other hand is not limited. There may be a soft cap in terms of ISO gained through event rewards, but since you gain ISO for PvP wins, there is never a hard upper cap. Time to be that guy again, but there is a Limit to the number of matches you can play in a day. Ask the old tappers to learn what that limit is. Is it a hard limit imposed by the game? Does it actually say that you have reached the maximum number of games and cannot play anymore?
Hadronic said: NeonBlue said: Hadronic said: NeonBlue said: To use a related word: limited. Without spending real money, the amount of HP and CP gained is LIMITED per day, which means there is a hard cap. ISO on the other hand is not limited. There may be a soft cap in terms of ISO gained through event rewards, but since you gain ISO for PvP wins, there is never a hard upper cap. Time to be that guy again, but there is a Limit to the number of matches you can play in a day. Ask the old tappers to learn what that limit is. Is it a hard limit imposed by the game? Does it actually say that you have reached the maximum number of games and cannot play anymore? Is there a message? noIs there a hard limit imposed by the game? yesDo to all the clicking between matches, each match takes at least 10 seconds. That would create an upper bound of 8640 matches in a standard Earth day.
NeonBlue said: Hadronic said: NeonBlue said: Hadronic said: NeonBlue said: To use a related word: limited. Without spending real money, the amount of HP and CP gained is LIMITED per day, which means there is a hard cap. ISO on the other hand is not limited. There may be a soft cap in terms of ISO gained through event rewards, but since you gain ISO for PvP wins, there is never a hard upper cap. Time to be that guy again, but there is a Limit to the number of matches you can play in a day. Ask the old tappers to learn what that limit is. Is it a hard limit imposed by the game? Does it actually say that you have reached the maximum number of games and cannot play anymore? Is there a message? noIs there a hard limit imposed by the game? yesDo to all the clicking between matches, each match takes at least 10 seconds. That would create an upper bound of 8640 matches in a standard Earth day. Again, the idea is hard cap vs. soft cap as implemented by the game, not by the sun. Of course there will always be a limit as to how many things you can do within a 24 hour period, so making that argument doesn't really fit here. The argument in this thread is of infinite vs. finite or limited vs. unlimited resources is based on artificial limits set by the game's developer.The key point being made here is: After a certain amount of play per day, the game prevents you from gaining any more CP or HP without the use of real money, while only slowing down the potential rate of ISO gain.
Hadronic said: NeonBlue said: Hadronic said: NeonBlue said: Hadronic said: NeonBlue said: To use a related word: limited. Without spending real money, the amount of HP and CP gained is LIMITED per day, which means there is a hard cap. ISO on the other hand is not limited. There may be a soft cap in terms of ISO gained through event rewards, but since you gain ISO for PvP wins, there is never a hard upper cap. Time to be that guy again, but there is a Limit to the number of matches you can play in a day. Ask the old tappers to learn what that limit is. Is it a hard limit imposed by the game? Does it actually say that you have reached the maximum number of games and cannot play anymore? Is there a message? noIs there a hard limit imposed by the game? yesDo to all the clicking between matches, each match takes at least 10 seconds. That would create an upper bound of 8640 matches in a standard Earth day. Again, the idea is hard cap vs. soft cap as implemented by the game, not by the sun. Of course there will always be a limit as to how many things you can do within a 24 hour period, so making that argument doesn't really fit here. The argument in this thread is of infinite vs. finite or limited vs. unlimited resources is based on artificial limits set by the game's developer.The key point being made here is: After a certain amount of play per day, the game prevents you from gaining any more CP or HP without the use of real money, while only slowing down the potential rate of ISO gain. hard cap, soft cap, call what you want, its still a cap. All resources are finite.The 24 hour period was chosen by the devs, and corresponds to Earth's rotation, has nothing to do with the sun.
NeonBlue said: The earth rotates around....nothing I guessA square is a rectangle, the earth consists mostly of water, the sky is blue. These statements are all as relevant as saying resources are finite because time and space are finite.By the same logic, resources are finite because this game will one day shut down, or resources are finite because we'll all die one day. While all true, these "truths" are meaningless because it doesn't allow us to differentiate or discuss. By your logic, it wouldn't matter that the devs chose a 24 hour period. They could have chosen 1 day, 3 days, a week, a month. All of these would lead to the same conclusion, since your statement encompasses anything and everything, and thus says nothing.
Hadronic said: NeonBlue said: The earth rotates around....nothing I guessA square is a rectangle, the earth consists mostly of water, the sky is blue. These statements are all as relevant as saying resources are finite because time and space are finite.By the same logic, resources are finite because this game will one day shut down, or resources are finite because we'll all die one day. While all true, these "truths" are meaningless because it doesn't allow us to differentiate or discuss. By your logic, it wouldn't matter that the devs chose a 24 hour period. They could have chosen 1 day, 3 days, a week, a month. All of these would lead to the same conclusion, since your statement encompasses anything and everything, and thus says nothing. The Earth orbiting around the sun defines what we commonly refer to as a year. I can correct you all day. A day is defined by Earth's spin its own axis, has nothing to do with the sun.The point is ISO is not unlimited without bound. I cannot generate infinite ISO in a day. Wish I could though, I seem to be limited to around 50k per day.
Hadronic said: NeonBlue said: The earth rotates around....nothing I guessA square is a rectangle, the earth consists mostly of water, the sky is blue. These statements are all as relevant as saying resources are finite because time and space are finite.By the same logic, resources are finite because this game will one day shut down, or resources are finite because we'll all die one day. While all true, these "truths" are meaningless because it doesn't allow us to differentiate or discuss. By your logic, it wouldn't matter that the devs chose a 24 hour period. They could have chosen 1 day, 3 days, a week, a month. All of these would lead to the same conclusion, since your statement encompasses anything and everything, and thus says nothing. The Earth orbiting around the sun defines what we commonly refer to as a year. I can correct you all day. A day is defined by Earth's spin its own axis, has nothing to do with the sun.The point is ISO is not unlimited without bound. I cannot generate infinite ISO in a day. Wish I could though, I seem to be limited to around 50k per day. Since infinity is not a number, no, you cannot earn infinite ISO a day. Even if I had a developer account where I could give myself ISO, I still would not be able to earn infinite ISO a day, because infinity can never be reached. Infinity is a concept, and in this case, it was used to represent a lack of an intended upper limit. A more apt descriptor would be "artificially limited/unlimited." While not infinite, the game's mechanics do not place a limit on how much ISO you can gain. This limit is derived from hardware limitations, time limitations people limitations, roster and team limitations. The argument here is between actual upper limit and maximum theoretical upper limit. If you're familiar with the "infinite monkey theorem," which states that if a monkey is given a keyboard for an infinite amount of time, and he hits keys at random, he will eventually write the complete works of Shakespeare. In this scenario, you're claims of actual upper limit would be analogous to saying that the monkey will surely eventually die, run out of electricity to power the keyboard, or accidentally break the keyboard. The point of these posts were to illustrate the relative theoretical value of HP and CP when compared to ISO. The artificial limits placed on CP and HP make them valuable, much like how a low supply of a desired commodity makes it more valuable. IF CP and HP could be earned from PvP like ISO can, then an argument could be made against farming 2*s.
Hadronic said: NeonBlue said: Hadronic said: NeonBlue said: The earth rotates around....nothing I guessA square is a rectangle, the earth consists mostly of water, the sky is blue. These statements are all as relevant as saying resources are finite because time and space are finite.By the same logic, resources are finite because this game will one day shut down, or resources are finite because we'll all die one day. While all true, these "truths" are meaningless because it doesn't allow us to differentiate or discuss. By your logic, it wouldn't matter that the devs chose a 24 hour period. They could have chosen 1 day, 3 days, a week, a month. All of these would lead to the same conclusion, since your statement encompasses anything and everything, and thus says nothing. The Earth orbiting around the sun defines what we commonly refer to as a year. I can correct you all day. A day is defined by Earth's spin its own axis, has nothing to do with the sun.The point is ISO is not unlimited without bound. I cannot generate infinite ISO in a day. Wish I could though, I seem to be limited to around 50k per day. Since infinity is not a number, no, you cannot earn infinite ISO a day. Even if I had a developer account where I could give myself ISO, I still would not be able to earn infinite ISO a day, because infinity can never be reached. Infinity is a concept, and in this case, it was used to represent a lack of an intended upper limit. A more apt descriptor would be "artificially limited/unlimited." While not infinite, the game's mechanics do not place a limit on how much ISO you can gain. This limit is derived from hardware limitations, time limitations people limitations, roster and team limitations. The argument here is between actual upper limit and maximum theoretical upper limit. If you're familiar with the "infinite monkey theorem," which states that if a monkey is given a keyboard for an infinite amount of time, and he hits keys at random, he will eventually write the complete works of Shakespeare. In this scenario, you're claims of actual upper limit would be analogous to saying that the monkey will surely eventually die, run out of electricity to power the keyboard, or accidentally break the keyboard. The point of these posts were to illustrate the relative theoretical value of HP and CP when compared to ISO. The artificial limits placed on CP and HP make them valuable, much like how a low supply of a desired commodity makes it more valuable. IF CP and HP could be earned from PvP like ISO can, then an argument could be made against farming 2*s. You keep taking the bait. How do I earn 300k ISO today, I need it to save a 4* cover?I find myself hoarding CP simply cause I don't have the ISO to champ what comes out of the tokens. I find myself buying HfH I don't really need simply because its a way of converting HP (essentially worthless to me) into ISO. I am completely bottlenecked by ISO as is most of the player base. Why am I bottlenecked by ISO, cause the devs chose to implement its distribution in such a way as that time itself limits how much I can acquire in a day.I am not arguing against farming 2*s. Its stupid not to. Im arguing against this language that ISO is unlimited when it isnt and that it is somehow less valuable than HP and CP when it is the source of most peoples resource problems.
Hadronic said: Im arguing against this language that ISO is unlimited when it isnt and that it is somehow less valuable than HP and CP when it is the source of most peoples resource problems.
PenniesForEveryone said: It's "unlimited" in that the game hasn't imposed a fixed limit - you are only limited by the amount of time you are willing to play. The same is not true of HP and CP. The game does not offer repeatable content which rewards HP and CP indefinitely. You earn progression rewards once, placement rewards once, node rewards 6 times, resupply once, etc., etc.
Hadronic said: PenniesForEveryone said: It's "unlimited" in that the game hasn't imposed a fixed limit - you are only limited by the amount of time you are willing to play. The same is not true of HP and CP. The game does not offer repeatable content which rewards HP and CP indefinitely. You earn progression rewards once, placement rewards once, node rewards 6 times, resupply once, etc., etc. PvP awards 2* covers in addition to ISO, that can be converted to ISO, HP and CP through farming 2*. None of the resources are limited by your definition. If we account for limited matches in a day, then all resources are limited in a day.There is no message that pops up that says, sorry you hit your daily ISO cap for the day, same with HP and same with CP.The devs chose to distribute these 3 resources differently so the limits manifest themselves slightly differently, but they are still there. They are aware of the limits and provide methods to purchase more if needed on all 3 currencies.