2* Farming (another thread? really?)

24

Comments

  • ZootSaxZootSax Posts: 1,712 Chairperson of the Boards
    Brigby said:
    So...just to play the bad cop for a second, why do some players feel disgruntled when they see 2-Star characters in a vault, even though they rely so heavily on "farming" them?

    2* farming is like an oil change for your car--practical and ultimately necessary, but not something that anyone looks forward to with excitement.   
  • Daredevil217Daredevil217 Posts: 2,402 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dormammu said:
    I farmed 2-stars for a good amount of time and it sped-up the progression of my 3-stars and netted me enough HP to roster every character in the game.

    But now that my roster is fully caught up, I don't need that extra HP. I earn enough HP through regular play to add a new character every two weeks - plus enough to buy a few daily deals every week. In addition, my 3-star roster has several max-champs and many more very close to that status. I've already decided I will not be selling any of my max-champed 3-stars, nor will I be duping and re-champing them anytime soon. The ISO I would use to re-champ dupe 3-stars is too valuable to me as I close in on champing all the 4-stars (around 20 left).

    So for now, in my situation, I'm not 2-star farming or 3-star farming. Some may think that's foolish for my long-term roster health (and 4-star champ levels), but the immediate ISO gains from selling a batch of 2-star and 3-star covers every day is not insignificant and is helping me champ my 4-stars at a greater pace.

    Once I have all of the classic 4-stars champed and less need of ISO, I may re-evaluate and decide to start farming my 2-stars again and begin 3-star farming as well.

    I only bring this up because while I think 2-star farming is essential for early growth, I also think there are times (like the place I am in) where it's not always the best course.
    I would strongly reconsider this position

    1) With XP farming becomes iso positive on top of other rewards. 

    2) Once you get to the bottom of the barrel with 4s champing them all won’t do too much more for your roster. I mean you want to get them all eventually sure but it doesn’t have to be right away. 

    3) You can always use more HP. Slots are just one thing but once you get post-HP you can buy vaults, tokens, HFH deals, etc. 

    I only have 6 left to champ right now, but have stopped opening tokens for awhile and am focusing on champing or rechamping what’s on my vine. I’ve hit a point that without opening there’s always something new to (re)champ. 3* Kamala dupe, 2* Wolverine dupe, then Howard, then 2* Thor and 3* Widow dupes.  That’s my vine without opening tokens for like a month.  So my iso is tied up for the next two weeks but I also have 3* grocket at 266 and 2* Daken at 144. So as soon as I pull a single cover, add them to the list. When the vine is clear I’ll sprinkle some iso on my classic 4s, but there’s no rush to do them all today. If I pull a cover that changes (see: Howard above) but this has always been a marathon not a sprint. 
  • randomhero1090randomhero1090 Posts: 382 Mover and Shaker
    Brigby said:
    So...just to play the bad cop for a second, why do some players feel disgruntled when they see 2-Star characters in a vault, even though they rely so heavily on "farming" them?
    2* shouldn't be in the vault at the volume they are.

    Why are there 13 2* BWs in the Webbed Wonder vault?
  • randomhero1090randomhero1090 Posts: 382 Mover and Shaker
    Brigby said:
    So...just to play the bad cop for a second, why do some players feel disgruntled when they see 2-Star characters in a vault, even though they rely so heavily on "farming" them?
    2* shouldn't be in the vault at the volume they are.

    Why are there 13 2* BWs in the Webbed Wonder vault?
    Because the event is called Webbed Wonder...

    ...and Black Widow is a spider.

    Duh. 
    *slow clap* 

    :)
  • redviper85redviper85 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 62 Match Maker
    I apologize if this was already mentioned and i missed it but the math slightly wrong. I often see the (69,530 + 5,000 - 65,000) which equals a 9530 loss (or trade off for the CP, HP, covers, and tokens)

    The actual model should be (69,530 + 5,000 +1300 - 65,000) for a loss of 10830. The overlooked 1300 is the iso NOT gained by selling the initial 13 2* covers you need before you can even begin to champ a character. 

    Still think it is a valuable trade-off/investment/loss but a SLIGHT oversight I often see in the math
  • randomhero1090randomhero1090 Posts: 382 Mover and Shaker
    Brigby said:
    So...just to play the bad cop for a second, why do some players feel disgruntled when they see 2-Star characters in a vault, even though they rely so heavily on "farming" them?
    2* shouldn't be in the vault at the volume they are.

    Why are there 13 2* BWs in the Webbed Wonder vault?
    Because the event is called Webbed Wonder...

    ...and Black Widow is a spider.

    Duh. 
     .... and she was essential ... and the essentials are always heavy in the vault.

    Buy the vault, get a fully covered 2* essential. Is deal!
    I'm terrible with sarcasm on forums...  but my spidey senses detect a lot of it :)
  • PenniesForEveryonePenniesForEveryone Posts: 294 Mover and Shaker
    Farming is a thing because it allows you to exchange infinite resources (ISO and 2* covers) for finite resources (HP and CP).

    Even if the ISO gain for flipping was negative (like it used to be) it's still worth it because you can obtain the additional ISO through play.
  • DyingLegendDyingLegend Posts: 667 Critical Contributor
    Brigby said:
    So...just to play the bad cop for a second, why do some players feel disgruntled when they see 2-Star characters in a vault, even though they rely so heavily on "farming" them?

    I've always viewed the 2-star farm as making the best out of an annoying situation.

    I wish there was a way to limit the amount of 2-stars your acquire as your shield rank gets higher. For example, as your shield rank grows the draw rates of two stars decrease while the draw rates of 3-stars increase. I wish i could rely on farming 3-stars over 2-stars,but maxing out a 3-star takes an eternity.

    I would personally love to see vaults that are catered to you overall roster level.

  • DormammuDormammu Posts: 3,379 Chairperson of the Boards
    Farming is a thing because it allows you to exchange infinite resources (ISO and 2* covers) for finite resources (HP and CP).
    HP and CP are not finite. They are just as infinite as ISO and 2-star covers. If they were finite, there would only be so much of it and when we got it all there wouldn't be any more to be gained.
  • PenniesForEveryonePenniesForEveryone Posts: 294 Mover and Shaker
    edited April 2018
    Dormammu said:
    Farming is a thing because it allows you to exchange infinite resources (ISO and 2* covers) for finite resources (HP and CP).
    HP and CP are not finite. They are just as infinite as ISO and 2-star covers. If they were finite, there would only be so much of it and when we got it all there wouldn't be any more to be gained.
    No.  If you started playing today, and there were no further updates to the game, you didn't spend any real money, and you never flipped or farmed a character the total amount of HP and CP that you could earn by any given date  would be finite.

    During the season though you can always go into shield sim (or any PvP event really) and continuously attack people for a small amount of ISO, and a chance at some 2* covers.  Those resources are infinite and only limited by the amount of time you are willing to put in to it.  By continuously cycling through the champ rewards (which include HP and CP) you are able to convert something that is infinite into something that is otherwise finite without spending.

    Alternatively - you have 900 HP and a cover that's dying in 1 hour, how do you generate the HP to save it?  You've hit all your progression rewards, no events are ending, no resupply is coming......you can't do anything.  Because HP is finite.  All you could do is try to farm some 2* covers and hope for the best in those champ rewards.
  • Daredevil217Daredevil217 Posts: 2,402 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2018
    Dormammu said:
    Farming is a thing because it allows you to exchange infinite resources (ISO and 2* covers) for finite resources (HP and CP).
    HP and CP are not finite. They are just as infinite as ISO and 2-star covers. If they were finite, there would only be so much of it and when we got it all there wouldn't be any more to be gained.
    No.  If you started playing today, and there were no further updates to the game, you didn't spend any real money, and you never flipped or farmed a character the total amount of HP and CP that you could earn by any given date  would be finite.

    During the season though you can always go into shield sim (or any PvP event really) and continuously attack people for a small amount of ISO, and a chance at some 2* covers.  Those resources are infinite and only limited by the amount of time you are willing to put in to it.  By continuously cycling through the champ rewards (which include HP and CP) you are able to convert something that is infinite into something that is otherwise finite without spending.

    Alternatively - you have 900 HP and a cover that's dying in 1 hour, how do you generate the HP to save it?  You've hit all your progression rewards, no events are ending, no resupply is coming......you can't do anything.  Because HP is finite.  All you could do is try to farm some 2* covers and hope for the best in those champ rewards.
    I disagree strongly with this.  If I have a cover that's expiring in an hour and need 380k iso to champ and save, I'm not getting that by grinding out nodes in sim.  There's just not enough time.  People lose covers all the time due to lack of iso needed to champ and its the resource that most people scream about wanting more of.  With enough TIME sure you can grind and save covers by playing and earning more iso.  But that's also true of CP/HP.  If you keep playing PVE/PVP/Sim/DDQ you will acquire those resources infinitely.  If they stopped running events, then you wouldn't get any resources, iso included.  But as long as events continue to run, all those resources are infinite with enough time invested.
  • PenniesForEveryonePenniesForEveryone Posts: 294 Mover and Shaker
    Dormammu said:
    Farming is a thing because it allows you to exchange infinite resources (ISO and 2* covers) for finite resources (HP and CP).
    HP and CP are not finite. They are just as infinite as ISO and 2-star covers. If they were finite, there would only be so much of it and when we got it all there wouldn't be any more to be gained.
    No.  If you started playing today, and there were no further updates to the game, you didn't spend any real money, and you never flipped or farmed a character the total amount of HP and CP that you could earn by any given date  would be finite.

    During the season though you can always go into shield sim (or any PvP event really) and continuously attack people for a small amount of ISO, and a chance at some 2* covers.  Those resources are infinite and only limited by the amount of time you are willing to put in to it.  By continuously cycling through the champ rewards (which include HP and CP) you are able to convert something that is infinite into something that is otherwise finite without spending.

    Alternatively - you have 900 HP and a cover that's dying in 1 hour, how do you generate the HP to save it?  You've hit all your progression rewards, no events are ending, no resupply is coming......you can't do anything.  Because HP is finite.  All you could do is try to farm some 2* covers and hope for the best in those champ rewards.
    I disagree strongly with this.  If I have a cover that's expiring in an hour and need 380k iso to champ and save, I'm not getting that by grinding out nodes in sim.  There's just not enough time.  People lose covers all the time due to lack of iso needed to champ and its the resource that most people scream about wanting more of.  With enough TIME sure you can grind and save covers by playing and earning more iso.  But that's also true of CP/HP.  If you keep playing PVE/PVP/Sim/DDQ you will acquire those resources infinitely.  If they stopped running events, then you wouldn't get any resources, iso included.  But as long as events continue to run, all those resources are infinite with enough time invested.
    Disagree as strong as you want, you're just plain wrong.  CP and HP rewards are fixed per event.  Period.  The only way to get more is to spend, or flip champs.

    This was a massive complaint when 5*s were first released.  If RNG didn't smile on you - the only way to recover was through spending.  Now with farming you can flip through champ rewards to make up some ground although it's quite a lengthy process.
  • JrlrmaJrlrma Age Unconfirmed Posts: 65 Match Maker
    edited April 2018
    Brigby said:
    So...just to play the bad cop for a second, why do some players feel disgruntled when they see 2-Star characters in a vault, even though they rely so heavily on "farming" them?
    Not that it necessarily bothers me(at least, not yet) but i suspect its because 2* covers fall from the sky like rain already. 75% of all elite and 69% of heroic pulls are going to be 2*s,

    special vault tokens otoh are pretty rare even if youre a highend player you might get 5 or 6 during the timeframe the vault is open

    as an aside, i would also submit that no one farms for fun, im sure everyone would like to be able to reasonably progress w/o it but you cant. Even if youre vip or buying the shield packs, unless you are dumping $1000s into this game you have no hopes of real progress without farming. So to say, “well why are you mad about 2* covers when you need them to farm” is a tad shorsighted since no one really wants to have to farm in the first place. 
  • Daredevil217Daredevil217 Posts: 2,402 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dormammu said:
    Farming is a thing because it allows you to exchange infinite resources (ISO and 2* covers) for finite resources (HP and CP).
    HP and CP are not finite. They are just as infinite as ISO and 2-star covers. If they were finite, there would only be so much of it and when we got it all there wouldn't be any more to be gained.
    No.  If you started playing today, and there were no further updates to the game, you didn't spend any real money, and you never flipped or farmed a character the total amount of HP and CP that you could earn by any given date  would be finite.

    During the season though you can always go into shield sim (or any PvP event really) and continuously attack people for a small amount of ISO, and a chance at some 2* covers.  Those resources are infinite and only limited by the amount of time you are willing to put in to it.  By continuously cycling through the champ rewards (which include HP and CP) you are able to convert something that is infinite into something that is otherwise finite without spending.

    Alternatively - you have 900 HP and a cover that's dying in 1 hour, how do you generate the HP to save it?  You've hit all your progression rewards, no events are ending, no resupply is coming......you can't do anything.  Because HP is finite.  All you could do is try to farm some 2* covers and hope for the best in those champ rewards.
    I disagree strongly with this.  If I have a cover that's expiring in an hour and need 380k iso to champ and save, I'm not getting that by grinding out nodes in sim.  There's just not enough time.  People lose covers all the time due to lack of iso needed to champ and its the resource that most people scream about wanting more of.  With enough TIME sure you can grind and save covers by playing and earning more iso.  But that's also true of CP/HP.  If you keep playing PVE/PVP/Sim/DDQ you will acquire those resources infinitely.  If they stopped running events, then you wouldn't get any resources, iso included.  But as long as events continue to run, all those resources are infinite with enough time invested.
    Disagree as strong as you want, you're just plain wrong.  CP and HP rewards are fixed per event.  Period.  The only way to get more is to spend, or flip champs.

    This was a massive complaint when 5*s were first released.  If RNG didn't smile on you - the only way to recover was through spending.  Now with farming you can flip through champ rewards to make up some ground although it's quite a lengthy process.
    Since HP are a finite resource how many are you limited to?

    The answer of course is there is no limit. As long as the events you can earn resources in are infinite, the resources are as well. Play enough events and you can earn an UNLIMITED (read: infinite) amount of HP. If you were to say there are a finite amount you can earn per event, I could roll with that, but events (you know, the actual game part of the game) are infinite. 
  • PenniesForEveryonePenniesForEveryone Posts: 294 Mover and Shaker
    Dormammu said:
    Farming is a thing because it allows you to exchange infinite resources (ISO and 2* covers) for finite resources (HP and CP).
    HP and CP are not finite. They are just as infinite as ISO and 2-star covers. If they were finite, there would only be so much of it and when we got it all there wouldn't be any more to be gained.
    No.  If you started playing today, and there were no further updates to the game, you didn't spend any real money, and you never flipped or farmed a character the total amount of HP and CP that you could earn by any given date  would be finite.

    During the season though you can always go into shield sim (or any PvP event really) and continuously attack people for a small amount of ISO, and a chance at some 2* covers.  Those resources are infinite and only limited by the amount of time you are willing to put in to it.  By continuously cycling through the champ rewards (which include HP and CP) you are able to convert something that is infinite into something that is otherwise finite without spending.

    Alternatively - you have 900 HP and a cover that's dying in 1 hour, how do you generate the HP to save it?  You've hit all your progression rewards, no events are ending, no resupply is coming......you can't do anything.  Because HP is finite.  All you could do is try to farm some 2* covers and hope for the best in those champ rewards.
    I disagree strongly with this.  If I have a cover that's expiring in an hour and need 380k iso to champ and save, I'm not getting that by grinding out nodes in sim.  There's just not enough time.  People lose covers all the time due to lack of iso needed to champ and its the resource that most people scream about wanting more of.  With enough TIME sure you can grind and save covers by playing and earning more iso.  But that's also true of CP/HP.  If you keep playing PVE/PVP/Sim/DDQ you will acquire those resources infinitely.  If they stopped running events, then you wouldn't get any resources, iso included.  But as long as events continue to run, all those resources are infinite with enough time invested.
    Disagree as strong as you want, you're just plain wrong.  CP and HP rewards are fixed per event.  Period.  The only way to get more is to spend, or flip champs.

    This was a massive complaint when 5*s were first released.  If RNG didn't smile on you - the only way to recover was through spending.  Now with farming you can flip through champ rewards to make up some ground although it's quite a lengthy process.
    Since HP are a finite resource how many are you limited to?

    The answer of course is there is no limit. As long as the events you can earn resources in are infinite, the resources are as well. Play enough events and you can earn an UNLIMITED (read: infinite) amount of HP. If you were to say there are a finite amount you can earn per event, I could roll with that, but events (you know, the actual game part of the game) are infinite. 
    There have been a finite number of events that have occurred, therefore the amount of HP/CP that could have possibly been earned in those events up until this date is also finite.  There is an upper limit to the amount of HP/CP that could have possibly been earned up until this point without either spending or farming.  I have no idea what it is, but it exists, and with access to data for all the events held and their reward tables you could actually calculate it.

    The same is not true of ISO or covers earned as random rewards, as those are only limited by time spent playing (and I suppose the number of hours in the day, but for all intents and purposes those rewards are infinite.)
  • feraldayorferaldayor Posts: 48 Just Dropped In
    'Infinite' - I don't think that word means what you think it means. 
  • HeartbreaksoupHeartbreaksoup Posts: 208 Tile Toppler
    Brigby said:
    So...just to play the bad cop for a second, why do some players feel disgruntled when they see 2-Star characters in a vault, even though they rely so heavily on "farming" them?
    Farming isn't fun.  It's what you're obliged to do to keep the flow of the champ rewards and CPs from those 2-stars coming instead of just converting them to ISO immediately.  57% of the vault is work, not fun.

    Most of the rest of the game is very fun, but 2* characters are not, they're tedious.  Unless or until the game starts creating new 2* characters from more media-friendly properties - a hill I'll die on is that Nico Minoru and, especially, Shuri should have been 2* characters since they have greater crossover appeal to new players and should be much, much easier for new players to obtain and use - then all the 2*s will only ever be "119 to 120, 120 to 121, six more 'til I get a 3*... yay... whee..."
  • QuebbsterQuebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    'Infinite' - I don't think that word means what you think it means. 
    I think the word is being used in two different senses. I believe Daredevil217 is trying to say there is no limit to the theoretical supply of HP and CP, while PenniesForEveryone is claiming the aquisition rate is limited since there are only so many HP/CP rewards you can get. Neither one is wrong, really.
  • Pants1000Pants1000 Posts: 481 Mover and Shaker
    Farming is a thing because it allows you to exchange [readily available] resources (ISO and 2* covers) for ... resources [that are more constrained] (HP and CP).
    Maybe the above suggested edit will help reunite the clans, and get us all back to humbly farming our own plots.

    Guess Brigby hasnt had a chance to start a thread for his question. The answer is:  the fact that we managed to make lemonade, and that the lemonade is "ok", does not imply we want more lemons. We just had to do something with the lemons at hand.
    That language works better.  I get what Pennies is saying, because you can play an infinite number of PVP matches and earn 2* covers and ISO, but you’ll never get CP or HP doing that except through farming.

    Back to the original subject, I farm my 2’s and sell off the 144 as soon as I pull an extra cover, unless it’s currently an essential in which case I’ll hold onto it until that event is over.  On an average day I have 10 champed and 3 in the rebuild process, which means I actually have less ISO in them than someone who keeps 144’s and never farms.  3’s are another story because 266’s are more useful, but they’re still well worth farming, whether you sell the 266 right away or wait until the dupe is higher.
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