2* Farming (another thread? really?)

helix72

Need some help here. I have read so many threads on farming my eyes are bleeding. But I've compiled some info, and I just am looking for people to tell me if I have my facts right. For now, I just want to focus on comparing selling every cover I get for ISO vs 2* farming to max champ level.

It costs 69,530 ISO to raise from level 15 to 94
It costs 5,000 ISO to champ the character at level 94
You gain 17,500 ISO leveling the character to 144
You gain 65,000 ISO selling the character at level 144

65,000 + 17,500 - 69,530 - 5,000 = 7,970 ISO

If I sell the same 63 covers it would take me to roster and then max champ the character, I would get 250 x 63 = 15,750 ISO

So I lose 7,780 ISO by max champing instead of selling the same covers outright.

HOWEVER, in the process of max champing, I also get:

5 Heroic Tokens
3 3* Covers
250 HP
5 CP
730 XP

In addition, XP gains me bonuses for leveling up. The amount varies based on level, but even at the worst ratio (getting to level 124 takes 5,275 XP and gives 62,500 ISO or 11.848 ISO per XP) that XP is worth 730 x 11.848 = 8,649, which more than covers the ISO I lose, plus still leaves me with the extra heroic tokens, 3* Covers, HP, and CP.

Did I get any of the facts wrong?

Thanks in advance, and apologies if I missed a thread that already confirmed all this.
helix

sinnerjfl

Look, all of those fancy numbers you posted are probably right (at a glance anyway).

The main reason you want to farm 2*'s is for the Hero Points. The champ rewards + the sellback will net you around 5000 HP total if you farm every 2* once. That is rather significant and it basically means you will always have HP available if you do so.

Ever since I got my 2* farm going, HP has never been a problem. The game literally throws 2* covers at you all the time so its not that long to champ and re-sell them.

The ISO you lose is insignificant, do it for the HP.

Pongie

Looks correct. The maths is in this thread. has 3-5* maths too. Might not have the XP amounts factored it since it predates it

Daiches

sinnerjfl said:

Look, all of those fancy numbers you posted are probably right (at a glance anyway).

The main reason you want to farm 2*'s is for the Hero Points. The champ rewards + the sellback will net you around 5000 HP total if you farm every 2* once. That is rather significant and it basically means you will always have HP available if you do so.

Ever since I got my 2* farm going, HP has never been a problem. The game literally throws 2* covers at you all the time so its not that long to champ and re-sell them.

The ISO you lose is insignificant, do it for the HP.

And the CP, and the covers.

HoundofShadow

Farming is a good decision in the long run. Just do it. The benefits outweigh the cost.

Magic

The real cost is the iso you can gain in a day (plus the slot for the 2* which is an amount of HP you get back when you flip a pair of 2*). Farming 2* is a no-brainer decision if there ever was one in MPQ.

Farming 3* might be more tricky but also worth it for the CP, LT, 4* covers and tokens (not to mention XP that gives ISO in the long run). 

Jrlrma

Idk how any f2p player could progress in this game w/o 2* farming

Pants1000

I think you missed the 125 HP for selling the max champ.  Nothing else jumps out, but I didn’t check it all.

helix72

Pants1000 said:

I think you missed the 125 HP for selling the max champ.  Nothing else jumps out, but I didn’t check it all.

Thanks Pants, I did miss that one. So 375 HP in total. I wasn’t sold on farming but after doing all this, now I am, at least for 2*s. Not far enough along to start thinking about farming 3*s.

The other negative of course is that your ISO gets tied up, which could delay the transition to higher tiers.

1) With 13 2* characters and assuming I’ll be churning the farm, I’ll have 74,530 x 13 = 968,890 in ISO “invested” at any point in time.

2) Once invested, worst case I would need to keep (69,530 + 5,000 - 65,000) x 13 = 9,530 x 13 = 123,890 on hand to be able to immediately champ each cover after selling the last one. I say worst case because the chance of needing to immediately champ all 13 covers all at once is likely next to zero, so I’d just need to be able to generate 9,530 ISO per character to avoid cover expiration. Likely not an issue.

Quebbster

helix72 said:

Pants1000 said:

I think you missed the 125 HP for selling the max champ.  Nothing else jumps out, but I didn’t check it all.

Thanks Pants, I did miss that one. So 375 HP in total. I wasn’t sold on farming but after doing all this, now I am, at least for 2*s. Not far enough along to start thinking about farming 3*s.

The other negative of course is that your ISO gets tied up, which could delay the transition to higher tiers.

1) With 13 2* characters and assuming I’ll be churning the farm, I’ll have 74,530 x 13 = 968,890 in ISO “invested” at any point in time.

2) Once invested, worst case I would need to keep (69,530 + 5,000 - 65,000) x 13 = 9,530 x 13 = 123,890 on hand to be able to immediately champ each cover after selling the last one. I say worst case because the chance of needing to immediately champ all 13 covers all at once is likely next to zero, so I’d just need to be able to generate 9,530 ISO per character to avoid cover expiration. Likely not an issue.

How long does it take you to get 10 000 ISO? For me it's a fraction of what I get in a day, so I consider it an insignificant amount. Heck, even the 120 000 ISO to champ a threestar takes more than a few Days to get.

Orion

Farming 2* is indeed a no-brainer.  I sell the max champ as soon as I get another cover for him.  Yeah, so occasionally I have to do a 2* essential with a 1-cover 2*.  Who cares?

For the 3* tier, I have a copy of everyone at 266 and a dupe to farm.  So far, the only dupe I've flipped is Patch, but others are close.  Yeah, it's a royal pain to get enough HP and ISO for all the extra dupes, but now that it's done it will be worth it in the end.

Brigby

So...just to play the bad cop for a second, why do some players feel disgruntled when they see 2-Star characters in a vault, even though they rely so heavily on "farming" them?

BigRussian

Brigby has a point. #2*farmhatersgonnahate

rixmith

Brigby, It's a valid question... but it looks at the issue kind of backwards. Because there are so many 2*'s in vaults and tokens, players have developed farming as a way to maximize the value of them. Farming wasn't the goal, simply a way to make the best of a sub-optimal situation.

Getting a 2* as a random reward for a PVP victory? Awesome!
Getting a 2* because you spent 100 HP on a daily token or vault deal? Bummer! 

I'm only going to get X rewards from a vault. So each 2* I pull means I'm going to get one fewer "good" reward. I'd really like to see those vault rewards be more matched to my position in the game (a 5* player) instead of a one-size-fits-all.

HoundofShadow

If you are referring to Balancing the Universe Vault, I think it's because the players expect the emphasis to be on the Support Tokens/Red iso. Seeing how 171/300 or 57% of the vault is 2*, and only 16.7% or 3.7% are related to the new major feature, those players felt dissatisfied. 

1) 16.7% or 50/300 = number of tokens and red iso in the vault.

2) 3.7% 11/300 = number of tokens because the rest of red iso is as good as non-existent to them (players with certain level of expectation).

Phumade

Because 2* are directly receivable via pvp rewards and in the minds of players.

2* covers are the appropriate reward for winning any 1 single pvp match.


In contrast,  token draws are much more rare commodities that are only given for hitting performance targets or placement targets.

As such,  a 2* reward that comes from pvp token (given for placement)  doesn't seem like an appropriate reward for the effort expended to win the token.


Psycologically the rewards keep reinforcing that too.

1.  I can get as many 2* covers I want by just playing seeds and selective choosing matches.  (reinforcing that 2* covers are easily acquirable resources.

2.  Conversely,  it becomes increasingly difficult to make prog targets/ placement targets against an ever improving rosters.  Really people value the tokens higher, because they have to work so much harder to acquire them.

So imagine their disappointment when they receive the same prize as winning a seed match.


Have you ever wondering why people don't **** about the 2* drop rates in pvp matches?  It because the player base accepts the value propostion of a mix of iso/1*/2* covers for winning a match.

But the base DOES not accept the value proposition thats embedded in the various vaults.

Brigby

I was more-so asking as a general inquiry, as opposed to specifically referencing the Balancing the Universe vault. (In my personal opinion, I also think there are a bit too many 2-Star covers in there) 

All your comments certainly make a lot of sense though. Thanks for providing your perspectives!

LifeofAgony

Brigby said:

So...just to play the bad cop for a second, why do some players feel disgruntled when they see 2-Star characters in a vault, even though they rely so heavily on "farming" them?

Because there’s roughly 4352 ways to earn 2*, so to see a “special mcu movie tie-in big to-do” vault stuffed with ridiculously accessible covers isn’t a real welcome sight for most.  Vaults should special, instead it’s just forcing you into no possible variances if you can spend enough.

mega ghost

Everyone already did a good job of addressing the pertinent distinctions, but to distill it in my own words:

1) With a 2* farm set up, I am never bitter about getting a 2* cover. It contributes to the long game, brick by brick.
2) If I've spent in-game currency, however, and especially if I've spent real-world currency to get in-game currency, a resulting 2* cover is a terrible deal. This can be stomached if it's just one of many outcomes and represents a stroke of bad luck, but if it's the most likely outcome then it's just unacceptable. 100 HP has a ~$1 value if you buy the Bugle Pittance for $1.99 and a ~$0.50 value if you buy the Stark Salary for $99.99. We're all very keenly aware of what the same amount of money can get us in the real world. Logan's Loonies is about the same cost as two months of Netflix, which offers unlimited access to more entertainment than I can consume. Asgard Treasure is about the same cost as an entire video game (not just a gamble at winning a very small percentage of a game.)  A Stark Salary is about what a month's worth of heat costs to keep me alive and comfortable during frigid temperatures in the dead of winter. $100 feeds me and my girlfriend all week. If I decide to spend this money on a mobile game and get largely 2* rewards instead? My God, the buyer's remorse is so intense that there's no coming back from it.

If you want us to embrace 2* characters as a common reward to a vault we have to pay to access, then the 2* covers need to be made even more valuable. This could be done through improved champion rewards, by adding 2* bonus heroes, and even through an overhaul to the champion system. Why doesn't the game recognize how many times we've championed a character? If I've championed my 2* Storm 80 times now, that should be reflected some way in either improved stats or improved rewards.

Dormammu

I farmed 2-stars for a good amount of time and it sped-up the progression of my 3-stars and netted me enough HP to roster every character in the game.

But now that my roster is fully caught up, I don't need that extra HP. I earn enough HP through regular play to add a new character every two weeks - plus enough to buy a few daily deals every week. In addition, my 3-star roster has several max-champs and many more very close to that status. I've already decided I will not be selling any of my max-champed 3-stars, nor will I be duping and re-champing them anytime soon. The ISO I would use to re-champ dupe 3-stars is too valuable to me as I close in on champing all the 4-stars (around 20 left).

So for now, in my situation, I'm not 2-star farming or 3-star farming. Some may think that's foolish for my long-term roster health (and 4-star champ levels), but the immediate ISO gains from selling a batch of 2-star and 3-star covers every day is not insignificant and is helping me champ my 4-stars at a greater pace.

Once I have all of the classic 4-stars champed and less need of ISO, I may re-evaluate and decide to start farming my 2-stars again and begin 3-star farming as well.

I only bring this up because while I think 2-star farming is essential for early growth, I also think there are times (like the place I am in) where it's not always the best course.

purplemur

Brigby said:

So...just to play the bad cop for a second, why do some players feel disgruntled when they see 2-Star characters in a vault, even though they rely so heavily on "farming" them?

because moonstone for the 10millionth tinykitty time.
sometimes though there is a golden wrapper inside that moonstone and you gets yerself a Hulk! 
cheap thrills. farming is cheap thrills in the dark mines of isogrind

OP: you could also breakdown a sell rate for the Heroics and 3* covers to further quantify the iso gap.
but you really nailed it with your XP conversion which is why it is always positive to farm. 
FARMING IS ISO POSITIVE!!! from the rooftops already! pssst even 1*s!

As to the investment: Having a maxchamped 2* that you can sell in a vinerot situation is...I don't have the adjective but the first time you sell a couple 2's and .snap. your racing with a new 4 is....its invaluable preparedness. It can turn a "which to champ?" thread into a double champ week.  YES, there are times where you have to slow your pack ripping & save cp until your farm is churning again. It's good to do, take a break and get ready for the next chase! Yay mini hordes!

There is a psychological component of rapid progress, achievment and flashing lights that goes along with farming, (I still get pumped when I hit 144!) and it has kept my interest in the game. I'm doing something while I swim ever deeper into the infinite depth of Classic Legends!