I miss win based PVP progression...
Comments
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mexus said:The game teached me PVE in the "Prologue":
You pick a node and replay it until you don't wanna play it more or complete it. And playing it means matching tiles to collect AP and activating skills of your choice.
You pretty much play PVP and PVE the same way.
I'd like to quote a user but I can't remember who he was but basically he said that a big problem with this competitive game is that people spend too much time trying to help each other. It ends up broken.0 -
mexus said:If playing a board game with someone who doesn't know the rules I explaining how to roll the dice and move around the board. Fun times. I don't form a secret underground movement of a few players that aims to find ways to roll the dice in specific pattern that makes it easier to win.2
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The rockett said:Um....yes. Secert underground. Nobody here has ever talked about what to do and how. Sure.
The realm problem is the point based is not an intuitive method to play, and no matter how much you try or how much addict you became, if you dont pay for the shields and play with clockwork like presition, taking X defeading the oposition, Shielding for Y time, and blah, blah, blah, you just don´t learn how to "win" -not pun intended- in this game.
Has a former pokemon player, EV Breeding and IV training where a LOT of hard to understand, but you get hints about that in the game and where easly decifred even without the use of internet, here... you have no hint of nothing, you just get brutally murdered in the point based system, dropped inside a botonless pit and you ask why this happend... you have no answerd about anything, no hint about why did you fail, about nothing! Thats is the problem about this method, is a lie wraped in a paranoic conspiration, thats what the point system is!
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ArcanaMoon said:You understand than this forums ARE that secret underground, yes, you talk a lot of that, but not everyone knows about of this place.
The realm problem is the point based is not an intuitive method to play, and no matter how much you try or how much addict you became, if you dont pay for the shields and play with clockwork like presition, taking X defeading the oposition, Shielding for Y time, and blah, blah, blah, you just don´t learn how to "win" -not pun intended- in this game.
Has a former pokemon player, EV Breeding and IV training where a LOT of hard to understand, but you get hints about that in the game and where easly decifred even without the use of internet, here... you have no hint of nothing, you just get brutally murdered in the point based system, dropped inside a botonless pit and you ask why this happend... you have no answerd about anything, no hint about why did you fail, about nothing! Thats is the problem about this method, is a lie wraped in a paranoic conspiration, thats what the point system is!
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The rockett said:Again, MPQ had been around for 1510 days. Win based was around for 2 tests, call it 10 days, and 1 season (28 days). Point based PVP has been around for the other 1472 days. Now, I have never said a "Win" based system wouldn't work. What I have said and others too that a Win based system that removes the progression CPs will not work. The only Win based system D3/Demi has put out is one that removes CPs from progression, which didn't work. Now if they test another system that has some different progression rewards, then we can talk. Until they show this, there is no way to separate a Win based system that's would have CP progression in it because that system doesn't exist at this time.
Clearly none of us learned to play PVP before LINE came around.
Because obviously people gathered on LINE and then learned how to score high in PVP, not the other way round.
Oh wait...
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The rockett said:Again, MPQ had been around for 1510 days. Win based was around for 2 tests, call it 10 days, and 1 season (28 days). Point based PVP has been around for the other 1472 days. Now, I have never said a "Win" based system wouldn't work. What I have said and others too that a Win based system that removes the progression CPs will not work. The only Win based system D3/Demi has put out is one that removes CPs from progression, which didn't work. Now if they test another system that has some different progression rewards, then we can talk. Until they show this, there is no way to separate a Win based system that's would have CP progression in it because that system doesn't exist at this time.
My perception of the problem is that they have too many veteran players, while fewer new players turn into veterans. Like you said, the game is four years old. If you came upon this game now, and tried to catch up, it would almost be an impossible task. The only way to shorten that gap is to increase the rewards for newer players, while decreasing the one thing that is accelerating the veterans even farther away.
I didn't like win based because it hurt my personal progression, but like it or not, I can understand what they are trying to accomplish.2 -
Bowgentle said:Don't bother, rockett.
Clearly none of us learned to play PVP before LINE came around.
Because obviously people gathered on LINE and then learned how to score high in PVP, not the other way round.
Oh wait...0 -
Just saying, I don't use Line for shield checking or battle chats. I chat with my alliance there and a few friends outside of my alliance. I play Versus solo, only skipping my alliance mates. I hold no truces, I hit anyone (except the aforementioned). I hit 900 every event and can hit 1200 if I choose. All without coordinating with anyone, so explain to me how Line is a "requirement" for a high score. It is not- learning the strategy (as with ANY game) is how you achieve high scores. EVERY game has internal strategies, if you don't learn them you won't score highly (or win, however it is set up). Why is that not common sense?10
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All I think of when I think of LINE is a way for veterans to team up to try and climb as high as possible without hitting each other. Its a load of nonsense.
I've said it plenty of times before, hit whoever appears on your screen. Its what I always do. I dont care whether you are a veteran, I dont care whether you are a noob, I dont care if I've hit you 5 times in an hour. I just dont care. If you are worth good enough points to me I'm hitting you until you aren't worth good points.
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PenniesForEveryone said:Oh come on. Placement rewards are completely dwarfed by the progress you make from opening tokens that you get mostly just for playing. And just about any 4* roster can T50 SCL9 for a 4* cover anyway if they just put in the time....it's not THAT competitive.
That said, I think anyone with the required characters and enough time to make five runs on each node can make full progression, which equals a 4* cover and enough CP for a token pull. Plus, each sub, wave node, and progression tiers providing an event token will also add to the 4/80 4* chances.
TLDR: For PvE, making the progression rewards is pretty darn satisfactory. Don't trip too hard over placement.
I'll add my thoughts later on PvP, but as a preview: I love going back to the points. I have much more of an outside life.0 -
Arctic_One said:After playing a season of win-based PvP, there is no way I could put myself through the torture of the old points based system as is. This is just one person's opinion.
Here is what I dont understand. If everyone agrees that the current points-based system is broken, flawed, unacceptable or whatever term you like then, why ever go back to it?
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
Stop the insanity!
Maybe that's part of why they went back.3 -
mexus said:And you have how many champed 5*s? Or how many boosted championed 4*s per event?
And for the record, this week with 45 champ 4s, 0 on the boost list. Though I'm currently working on vulture and he will be champed by Tuesday night.1 -
BearVenger said:Arctic_One said:After playing a season of win-based PvP, there is no way I could put myself through the torture of the old points based system as is. This is just one person's opinion.
Here is what I dont understand. If everyone agrees that the current points-based system is broken, flawed, unacceptable or whatever term you like then, why ever go back to it?
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
Stop the insanity!
Maybe that's part of why they went back.
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I think most people opposed to last season system were more opposed to the cp getting removed from progression and the sheer volume of games required to play to earn the 4* cover. Most of the veteran players can get to 900 points in about 15-20 matches. With some line coordination, you can get to 1200 in 25 matches.
Wins-based system was great for people that couldn’t get to 900 before getting hit, but those that could climb quickly all of a sudden had to play 2-3 times the number of matches to get the same reward. (Shield simulator needing 84 wins was an awful chore!)
i think wins system works, but put the cp back in progression instead of top 10/500 (did the cl5 players like seeing 5* players eat their rewards last season?).
also, adjust the required wins for progression. Put the 4* cover at 25 wins, not 40. Put the 15 cp at 35 wins. Easy3 -
Gotta agree with the OP. I haven't played PvP since it went back to the point base progression system. Never liked playing all in one hour for placement and points. Much prefer playing whenever I like, across the entire event, to get the wins I want for progression.
Guess that makes more time for other games until they bring back win based progression.5 -
Arphaxad said:Gotta agree with the OP. I haven't played PvP since it went back to the point base progression system. Never liked playing all in one hour for placement and points. Much prefer playing whenever I like, across the entire event, to get the wins I want for progression.
Guess that makes more time for other games until they bring back win based progression.1 -
Phumade said:Not sure what your point is? even 500 level rosters don't try to gain 500 points in 1 hr.
How many levels are in the team your using? If you can't break 1000 between all three chars you'll be hard pressed to brake 900 at this late stage of the event.
Your climbing in the most competive part of the event. Even big 450+ get hammered this late in the event
1) Points-based "progression" has driven enough people back out of the Versus mode that there isn't a population enough to support a growing "points pool" to allow even a single player at the low CL to achieve even the modest rewards (due to CL) that are available.
2) The Points-based "progression" system isn't even designed for even a single player at the low CL to be able to achieve the full set of rewards.
Like, OBVIOUSLY I'm not expecting to get 500 points in an hour. The fact that nobody is **even close** to achieving the full set of progression rewards hints that something is completely broken.
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I got my 40 wins every event. Sometimes 45-50, depending on placement needs. I got my 74 Sim wins.
It burnt me out so much that I've struggled to find motivation to play, even with the old system in place. That much grinding through 5* MMR is a nightmare, and adding a higher target w/ CP would really just make it worse.
I respect the fact that some younger players got a healthier experience out of the PvP system, but there has to be another solution that doesn't pin you to the game for eternity.8 -
Jwallyr said:My point is that some combination of the following is true:
1) Points-based "progression" has driven enough people back out of the Versus mode that there isn't a population enough to support a growing "points pool" to allow even a single player at the low CL to achieve even the modest rewards (due to CL) that are available.
2) The Points-based "progression" system isn't even designed for even a single player at the low CL to be able to achieve the full set of rewards.
Like, OBVIOUSLY I'm not expecting to get 500 points in an hour. The fact that nobody is **even close** to achieving the full set of progression rewards hints that something is completely broken.
First off? What modest rewards (due to CL) are you missing? If your complaining about not getting the 700, 800, 900 reward (p.s. no one else in your bracket is getting those rewards either? so it doesn't seem like rewards are going to inappropriate rosters or cheating behvior, or even to sandbagged rosters? (I don't think your even complaining about the fellow players in your bracket?)
LOL, Did you really think a SCL1 roster full of 2*/3* chars was gonna hit 1200 and get the 1 cp reward????
hahahahahahahahahaha
The progression table was not designed to enable all players in the SCL to make top progression. Plain and simple. SCL 1 appropriate rosters (which is probably some mix of 2*/3*) cannot hit 1200 (which is top progression in scl1).
The 0 to 1200 point spread comes from a era when all players competed in the same time slice. In fact, the point progression structure predates time slices.
Some lazy accountant just cloned the point structure and assigned prizes that were appropriate for the intended audience, but was not set at achievable point levels for those types of rosters.
If that really is your concern, Why don't you write it up as that issue vs. a vague complaint of not being able to climb 500 points in 1 hr.
lol
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aesthetocyst said:What's all this mess about not being able to get 500pts in an hour?
I've seen multiple mentions of this.
That's a low bar. I see players gain far more in an hour, all the time.1
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