I miss win based PVP progression...



  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    mexus said:
    @mexus No one has to tell you that.   You play enough pvp and you pick up the point system.  It's not rocket science.  Plus, it has been shared across the forums, from discussions like this, to pvp guides, to alliance members.

    Also, I'm not sure what your point is.  If you don't think players who have invested time (and/or money) into playing and learning the game, as well as building up their rosters shouldn't have an advantage, then what is the point?  if you want random odds that don't require thought, effort, or skill, play a slot machine.  You play more, you learn more, you build a better roster, you perform better in events.  Isn't that how it should be?

    I'm day 522, also.  hardly "years."
    Nah, I have honestly no idea hos attacking a low-pointer makes me a high pointer. I have absolutely no idea how many points "I'm worth" and why. I also don't know why I hit someone for 40 points and ends up with +22 instead. Did I just hit someone that makes me worth a lot? The secret limit seems to be 38 points. I don't understand why that is so.
    This is not explained to me in the game and I don't wanna sit on "war rooms" in an external chat to learn about this. Those who care enough to do that are a very very small fragment of the entire player-base of course and these are also the people that often ends up in the top ranks.
    PVP scoring system is based on Elo rating (chess scoring system) with K-factor of 75. There are some modifications to this (point losses are reduced for scores lower than 1.2k), but main features of the system are still there.

    What this means in practice:

    Opponents can be Worth different Points depending on how far above or below you their score is. Someone high above you can be Worth 75 Points, someone far below you can be Worth 1 Points (I don't know the exact spans off the top of my head). Someone with the same score as you (more or less) is Worth 38 Points.

    In other Words, as you climb up the scoreboard you become a more attractive target to everyone else because your score increase.

    Not getting the shown Points is a whole other thing. Basically, when someone pops up in your queue the game calculates how many Points they are Worth based on their score at that moment. However, when you win a fight the Points awarded is based on their score at that moment. If some time has passed between the team entering the queue and you winning the fight the awarded Points will be different than what was shown earlier. Could be more, could be less.

  • Heartbreaksoup
    Heartbreaksoup Posts: 354 Mover and Shaker
    I've given up trying for 2000 points in simulator to get that Nightcrawler cover, and a grand total of ZERO 3* covers from PVE the whole season. We need a system where it's wins-based with less wins required, or points-based but where points aren't deducted for losing on defence.
    I've also given up trying.  I hit 1700 points several days ago and got the third Kamala Khan cover, so I'm good.

    At the time I'm writing this, there are 3 days and 13 hours to go, and the top ranked person in SCL 5 has just 1643 points.  Certainly it's possible that people have hit 2000 and been beaten down by 357+ points, but I have to wonder how many.
  • BoyWonder1914
    BoyWonder1914 Posts: 884 Critical Contributor
    edited December 2017
    2.) 40+ points per match when you're trying to get to 900 from 700 is much easier than 1 win per match when you're trying to get from 24 wins to 40 if it's all against the same level of opponents. 
    The only people with an experience anything like this are the people who’s trans are so frightening they don’t get hammered every time they break the shield. 

    I look at teams I *can* beat for 25-30 points, and if anything goes the slightest bit wrong, I’ve lost 60+ points in the time it takes to get two wins. There is no 40 points per win to get that 900, that’s a fantasy to the vast majority of players. It’s simply unattainable under points-based “progression.” 
    The "vast majority" of players also don't take the time to realize that they could be learning from these experiences, or other players if they simply choose to. But they do not, get frustrated that PVP isn't some incredibly intuitive game experience, and call the people that are good at it elitists that are part of some exclusive club they are denied entry to. PVE wasn't incredibly intuitive either, it took time to realize that there was a certain way/order that you needed to clear nodes in order to optimize your points for the sub. Heck, it took me some time to even realize that you were supposed to clear a node 4 times, because when I started playing, nodes began refreshing points immediately after the first clear. 

    Everyone agrees that the points-based system isn't perfect, the complaints about loss of progress during defensive losses while you're in another fight has been an issue since before Wins-Based progression was EVER an idea. But at some point you have to realize that this issue is bigger than the frustrations you face in your own silo of not being able to progress how you want. You can't just say "too bad" to the people that don't want to fight 40+ matches of boosted 4-stars and 5-stars, the same way we can't just say "too bad" to the people who struggle in the 700-900 point climb and give up. If health of the game and player engagement is the priority, then clearly its a horrible idea to pick a solution that shuts up one portion of the player base, but enrages another. A solution that takes both perspectives into account is clearly the ideal way to go. Win-based, but with lower win totals, and points-based, but with point thresholds scaled to Clearance Level have both been suggested as well as many other great ideas. 

    In the meantime, you can quit PVP altogether, or learn from the people who had the same frustrations you are having but learned to get better as their roster improved. Choice is yours. You cited people having "frightening" rosters as a reason for not getting hit, EVERYONE gets hit. 5-star rosters get hit. It's not about the level of your roster, its about how much points you are worth, and how quickly you can finish the match when you break your shield.