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I miss win based PVP progression...

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Comments

  • Beta-Ray BillBeta-Ray Bill Age Unconfirmed Posts: 124 Tile Toppler
    Play pve. It advances much faster. Leave pvp alone. You may advance in it now but you will not in the future. You’ll hit a wall and never move because bigger rosters can only advance with the cp you can’t get due to 2300 point scores
    If pvp was only meant for the vets, there would be no point in having different CLs, would there? Pvp score based has always been an issue, no matter what clearance level you were at. Between funky mmr, whales dropping down to lower CLs for easier placement, and a system that encourages alliance members to boost each other up to 1200, there is obviously something broken in there that the devs need to fix.

    was what we saw with the win season it? Not in its current state. But they are working on it. But scaring off rookies doesn’t help the situation.
    I’m thinking you completely misread my statement. In the win based system, newer rosters may get the 4* shiny at the end of the rainbow, but will never place. Too many big rosters want that placement cp and THAT is what gets you out of 4* land. Not winning 40 matches. I’ve been hitting 1200 since my 3* meta days and can easily say it is doable more so than placing top 10 against point hungry large rosters
  • sirwookieechrissirwookieechris Posts: 131 Tile Toppler
    Play pve. It advances much faster. Leave pvp alone. You may advance in it now but you will not in the future. You’ll hit a wall and never move because bigger rosters can only advance with the cp you can’t get due to 2300 point scores
    If pvp was only meant for the vets, there would be no point in having different CLs, would there? Pvp score based has always been an issue, no matter what clearance level you were at. Between funky mmr, whales dropping down to lower CLs for easier placement, and a system that encourages alliance members to boost each other up to 1200, there is obviously something broken in there that the devs need to fix.

    was what we saw with the win season it? Not in its current state. But they are working on it. But scaring off rookies doesn’t help the situation.
    I’m thinking you completely misread my statement. In the win based system, newer rosters may get the 4* shiny at the end of the rainbow, but will never place. Too many big rosters want that placement cp and THAT is what gets you out of 4* land. Not winning 40 matches. I’ve been hitting 1200 since my 3* meta days and can easily say it is doable more so than placing top 10 against point hungry large rosters
    But the issue of the cp loss wasn’t because of the win system. It was the devs taking cp out of progression. If they left cp in placement, the issue would still be there in point based. They tried to limit CP and because of that they messed up their own trial of win based season.
  • SpudgutterSpudgutter Posts: 620 Critical Contributor
    Suddenly an outburst of nostalgia for wincount PvP. many new and rarely seen names on the forum.

    That's all great, but it may have been more effective to have joined the "debate" a month ago. To have sang its praises on its advent, rather than bemoan its exit. Be proactive, rather than reactive.

    Silly humans, nothing motivates'em better than "got beef" :D


    to be fair, i did suggest several times that there were probably plenty of people that liked the new system, but didn't come on just to praise it.  that's now how the internet usually works, unfortunately.
  • BigMike182BigMike182 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 60 Match Maker
    edited November 2017
    Suddenly an outburst of nostalgia for wincount PvP. many new and rarely seen names on the forum.

    That's all great, but it may have been more effective to have joined the "debate" a month ago. To have sang its praises on its advent, rather than bemoan its exit. Be proactive, rather than reactive.

    Silly humans, nothing motivates'em better than "got beef" :D


    to be fair, i did suggest several times that there were probably plenty of people that liked the new system, but didn't come on just to praise it.  that's now how the internet usually works, unfortunately.


    I highly doubt the devs care what we post here. Win-based progression was probably discontinued because:

    a) they're crunching numbers to figure out the overall affect; or

    b) profits went down.
  • BigMike182BigMike182 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 60 Match Maker
    Sorry for the bad formatting on the last post. I tried to correct a mistake and it came out kind of ugly.

    Anyway, I started playing the new season of PVP. I've already lost a lot of points after playing a handful of matches. I might just play to 575 to get the 10 CP and be slightly bitter.
  • DotproductDotproduct Posts: 216 Tile Toppler
    Anyway, I started playing the new season of PVP. I've already lost a lot of points after playing a handful of matches. I might just play to 575 to get the 10 CP and be slightly bitter.

    I haven't lost any yet (I'm opposite time to the US) but 8 matches in, and I'm not even half way to the 575 target and likely won't get there once I get hit back down when the US wakes up.
  • Beta-Ray BillBeta-Ray Bill Age Unconfirmed Posts: 124 Tile Toppler
    Play pve. It advances much faster. Leave pvp alone. You may advance in it now but you will not in the future. You’ll hit a wall and never move because bigger rosters can only advance with the cp you can’t get due to 2300 point scores
    If pvp was only meant for the vets, there would be no point in having different CLs, would there? Pvp score based has always been an issue, no matter what clearance level you were at. Between funky mmr, whales dropping down to lower CLs for easier placement, and a system that encourages alliance members to boost each other up to 1200, there is obviously something broken in there that the devs need to fix.

    was what we saw with the win season it? Not in its current state. But they are working on it. But scaring off rookies doesn’t help the situation.
    I’m thinking you completely misread my statement. In the win based system, newer rosters may get the 4* shiny at the end of the rainbow, but will never place. Too many big rosters want that placement cp and THAT is what gets you out of 4* land. Not winning 40 matches. I’ve been hitting 1200 since my 3* meta days and can easily say it is doable more so than placing top 10 against point hungry large rosters
    But the issue of the cp loss wasn’t because of the win system. It was the devs taking cp out of progression. If they left cp in placement, the issue would still be there in point based. They tried to limit CP and because of that they messed up their own trial of win based season.
    That won’t stop big rosters from taking your placement rewards. Trust me
  • bluewolfbluewolf Posts: 1,950 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    Long story short, if a majority of FTP (or VIP) folks liked wins based but did not suddenly spend $100 a month, and a lot of the $100-$300 spenders stopped spending, well. High end engagement dropped, low end might have gone up but how much?

    CP in progresssion is hard to square with wins based rewards, from devs point of view. They need to have an incentive to place and shield.  1200 is - unless I’m way off - a must-Shield goal, so removing that requirement is pretty big from an HP flow perspective.  And you may not spend HP just to shield, but all HP usage in total creates pressure to buy more.

    I’m sure they thought people at the high end would swallow the pill and keep playing for CP in placement, due to sunk costs etc. They were wrong. 

    We will see what the devs find acceptable as an system that benefits the players more.
  • QubortQubort Posts: 203 Tile Toppler
    WEBGAS said:
    Play pve. It advances much faster. Leave pvp alone. You may advance in it now but you will not in the future. You’ll hit a wall and never move because bigger rosters can only advance with the cp you can’t get due to 2300 point scores
    Sorry, but pve it's a completely mess right now. Bigger rosters dropped down to scl8 and scl7 where they can easily dominate. So forget top10 if you re are aiming to it.
    I don't condamn them (maybe I would do the same if I was in their shoes)....but opening scl9 is not enough if the rewards are not worth the efforts they require
    The OP stated he is casual player. I'm sorry but I find it unrealistic that someone plays casual expects top PVP rewards or top 10 PVE rewards. 
  • SangFroidSangFroid Posts: 177 Tile Toppler
    JaGo said:
    Suddenly an outburst of nostalgia for wincount PvP. many new and rarely seen names on the forum.
    We did, by actually playing pvp. They have the data, no need to join a forum where positive feedback tends to get drowned out. I played every test event that was win based and almost every event this last season. I absolutely hate the points based pvp because losing a round stops my progression so I just stay away.  Wins based was loved by every member of my alliance...every member. And just because we all didn't pop on this forum does not negate our legitimacy, like I mentioned, the data that we hear so much about from the devs is our proof. 

    -JaGo
    JaGo how many shields did you or your alliance members use throughout the test season? How much money did you or your alliance spend during the test season?

    I am asking not to be crass or be a jerk but THOSE answers are important metrics. If you and everyone in your alliance played way more PVP than usual and each made 40 wins each event and spent the same or less money and got way more rewards than you normally would have that is not a positive metric for D3. 
  • SangFroidSangFroid Posts: 177 Tile Toppler
    SangFroid said: ... I am asking not to be crass or be a jerk but THOSE answers are important metrics. If you and everyone in your alliance played way more PVP than usual and each made 40 wins each event and spent the same or less money and got way more rewards than you normally would have that is not a positive metric for D3. 
    Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Is D3/Demi in this for the short-term or the long-term money?
    _______________

    If they played more PvP they may have used more health packs.

     If they won more covers they may have needed more slots than otherwise, and or be driven to play other areas of the game harder to earn even more in order to make covers usable.
    I hear what you are saying...

    If they were in it for the long haul they would have developed a new game mode every 6 months so that over the long term people would be way more engaged for a much longer time and therefore likely to spend much more over a longer play lifecycle. 

    We have a model where they are chasing the money spent on new characters every week... playing the long game is not in D3’s playbook
  • TriggerTimeTriggerTime Posts: 31 Just Dropped In
    Can’t you just hop in your Tardis and enjoy the golden days of the previous season again? 
    Unfortunately it's a fixed point in time, in his own timestream. :)


    I also miss win-based PvP but they're constantly tweaking this game, and the best we can do is adjust strategies accordingly. I suppose one advantage of points based PvP is that (at least in my experience) the early stages offer easier MMR. Also, the OP stated he could get to 700; if he can get to that point he could presumably also shield hop to 900 with reasonable success.
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