I miss win based PVP progression...

Ruinate

How come people think you can't play in small sessions with the point system?  Points in the shard moves up as the event goes on.  Your equilibrium moves up as the event goes on.  If you start taking a beating, stop and walk away.  Come back later and try again.  It doesn't matter if you lose a couple hundred points while you're away, it's just not that big of a deal to see some reds.  Those points and even more can be made up easier since the points in the shard is higher if you wait a couple hours.

If you're shielding at 400 and burning shields to get 900 cause you don't like seeing yourself get hit - you're doing it wrong.
If you're trying to get to 900 in one go when your roster isn't ready - you're doing it wrong.  

Find a balance.  Float just a little bit higher with each session until you get to a comfortable point where you can reach 900 in 1-3 shields. 

mega ghost

Ruinate said:

How come people think you can't play in small sessions with the point system?  Points in the shard moves up as the event goes on.  Your equilibrium moves up as the event goes on.  If you start taking a beating, stop and walk away.  Come back later and try again.  It doesn't matter if you lose a couple hundred points while you're away, it's just not that big of a deal to see some reds.  Those points and even more can be made up easier since the points in the shard is higher if you wait a couple hours.

If you're shielding at 400 and burning shields to get 900 cause you don't like seeing yourself get hit - you're doing it wrong.
If you're trying to get to 900 in one go when your roster isn't ready - you're doing it wrong.  

Find a balance.  Float just a little bit higher with each session until you get to a comfortable point where you can reach 900 in 1-3 shields. 

This doesn't always work very well, though. I had to shield several times and now I'm at 873 points and shielded once more. You'd think I was set, right? Well, I can't find a single match worth more than 22 points, most showing up are offering single digits. I keep checking back, over the course of my 8 hour shield, and this has not changed. I have 30 minutes until I'm open to attack again. If I'm forced to play two matches to get to 900 I will absolutely be back down in the 700s within that time.

mega ghost

And here I am, on the other side of it. After one battle I was knocked down into the 700s, and I fought and clawed through about ten more matches with the same result each time, using up all of my boosts and health packs. Because my shields are in cool down, I dropped 300 HP for the 24-hour one, leaving me at ~800 points.

All in all, it should be apparent why they prefer this system.

Edit: And while I'm fine with this system for placement, it's completely abhorrent for progression.

Wumpushunter

They have the code for both why not run both at the same time.  Whynotbothtacogirl.gif 

Celerial

mega ghost said

I'm especially missing it right now playing the the Raging Fire PvP. I got to ~800 and shielded. Came back right before my shields ran out and figured I'd make the climb to 900 so I could grab a Hulk cover. It's after 3AM, how active could it be? Well, I've easily played 20 matches trying to get there. Each time I win a match, I find I'm down by at least 20 points more than I won. Finally thought it was mine, I was at 878 and won a 50 point match — nope! I'm down to 723. I had to shield and give up. In the time I took to type this I was attacked about 6 more times.

I don't care about placement. I just want that cover. Tediously climbing to 40 wins wasn't a fun experience and bored me to tears, but this is a terrible experience. You should never lose progression. Win-based PvP was flawed and needed adjustments, but it was definitely a step in the right direction.

That's exactly what happened to me.  I'm hoping it was because it was a new character, but I was able to hit 900 pretty regularly before.  I tried three different times to cross the last 100 but I couldn't get through one match without getting throttled no matter what time I tried.

Ronburgundy

 BRING BACK WIN BASED PROGRESSION!!! 

I have a pretty decent roster in 4* transition with 6 champed 4* and climbing. But I have zero chance at the 900 point progression to get a 4* cover to help me build.  I can get to 800 pretty easily but get hammered from there. I win a match and lose two in the process. Shield hops don't do much good either. No fun at all. 

Say what hat you want about win progression but at least i know if I commit to the grind it will be worth it in the end. 

marshall

Got 870 for the Vulture PvP, got beat down to 670 in the time I could do a single fight using three boosted 4*s on S2. Kept trying to climb for 1 hour, never going further than 800, gave up, shielded.

What a great experience!

BigMike182

I've had good luck the last two rounds- I just got to 900 in Junkyard Wars & got to 900 in the MEHulk PVP. I don't know if I just happened to play at times with fewer active players or what, but I didn't lose many points.

I still want wins-based progression back. I want it fixed (less wins for the 4*, put the 15 CP pts back in, keep points for placement only), but marshall's post is way too familiar from years of fruitless attempts to get from 800-something pts to 900. Even following the (useful & appreciated!) advice given on this forum hasn't always been enough to overcome the 800-899 pt repeating dog pile.

Jwallyr

So I have a slow Friday and not much better to do than play the PvP event. The time slice for which I signed up ends in 53 minutes, and I'm currently in 4th place with 482 points. The top player has 510 points.

So, I'm SURE someone can totally get 700 points in the next 55 minutes and snag that 1200 point progression reward! I'm so glad they put that back in! /sarcasm

Phumade

Jwallyr said:

So I have a slow Friday and not much better to do than play the PvP event. The time slice for which I signed up ends in 53 minutes, and I'm currently in 4th place with 482 points. The top player has 510 points.

So, I'm SURE someone can totally get 700 points in the next 55 minutes and snag that 1200 point progression reward! I'm so glad they put that back in! /sarcasm

Not sure what your point is?  even 500 level rosters don't try to gain 500 points in 1 hr.


How many levels are in the team your using?  If you can't break 1000 between all three chars you'll be hard pressed to brake 900 at this late stage of the event.

Your climbing in the most competive part of the event.  Even big 450+ get hammered this late in the event

White_Deth

Well the game is catering for those who spend and those whove built the best rosters. I get to my own personal goal and leave it. Remember, why would tgey want all of us who play for nothing getting 4 stars pretty easily every sub? I mean that isnt making them any cash. Of all those who bet beat down or climb and need to shield a % will drop cash. The wins based as much as i liked it meant getting all progress rewards without fear. Points based can halt placement AND progress and people will spend to get there. Im assuming points makes them a tad more £/$ than wins.

GurlBYE

I think the one thing people fail to realize in these advice threads is, when your roster is large and powerful sure you still see those juicy 50 point + matches all the way up to 800 and beyond.

On a 4 roster thanks to MMR seeing battles above 35-40 points is a rarity, even after waiting hours, and yes even hard resets of the game. 

Think about the advice given + behaviors + MMR


Advice is, shield and fight for 5 minute bursts and complete matches.
Advice is also, queue until you see 50 pointers

They don't mix well, because any matches you can do will either have A) been swarmed to death by late climbing rosters who are stronger and can queue them (usually around at 700 or so, low 5 champ teams can start to see early and middle 4s while traveling up)

B ) end up appearing as 50 but were hit by several other people. 

or C ) don't offer a differential of power worth fighting. If it takes all boosts and some luck to win, and 1 cascade goes wrong, not only do I lose points from the battle I attempted, I'll lose fights from the other people constantly queuing behind shields who saw one person jump up for 40 points thats around their power level.

Essentially thanks to closed MMR and the power gap created with 5's, it's entirely possible to shield and queue for hours, reset etc until you find someone (points will usually max out at 35, with an occasional much riskier 40 that can slap you back in a quarter of the time it takes to beat them). But it's mainly a crabladder in a barrel, until someone larger decides to knock the crab furthest at the top down. And later in pvp when they've all been stomped there's enough of a gap and power differential created that there's a huge empty void of points that aren't accessible. And usually that gap sits cleanly between 575 and 800 (these are for high activity slices)

Like my vulture bracket where top 10 goes from 3200 for 1st, all the way down to 1000 for 20th. 

GurlBYE

Honestly the best combo of systems likely would have just been to give anyone who finished the events above 1200 15 CP, while keeping the wins system but maxing it out around 20 or 30. 

mega ghost

GurlBYE said:

Honestly the best combo of systems likely would have just been to give anyone who finished the events above 1200 15 CP, while keeping the wins system but maxing it out around 20 or 30. 

You know, if their fear is just about giving out too many resources, their hesitation to do so has caused both systems fail as:

1) Points-based: This system creates a terrible play experience by making resources past ~650 points too difficult to get and with too much frustration, while undermining the idea of progression by taking away your earned points when you're attacked and more often than not lose. Success in this system requires more than just a high-level roster and effort and forces players to use outside sources and communication to get the necessary edge, which is just too much.

2) Wins-based: To minimize the number of resources they give out with guaranteed progression, they removed the second CP reward from progression and made getting to the other rewards (namely the 4* cover) extremely tedious, hoping to weed out players who weren't willing to dedicate themselves to the grind. This takes away too much and creates a bad playing experience as well given that they've used tedium as a way to gate us — that is hardly the right path for a game.

I'm now considering this idea of a hybrid system. Since the win-based system still uses points for placement, why not keep the win-based system but now add an additional points-based bar for progression:

-One progression bar tracks wins and this score can't decrease. It applies to season progression, as well as some of the individual match rewards, including ISO, tokens, and the 4* cover (which is now awarded at a much more reasonable 25 wins.) This progression does not award any CP, however, outside of what's present in season progression rewards.

-The other progression bar tracks points, has no bearing on season progression, and only awards CP: the 10 CP at 575 and the 15 CP at 1,200. This progression can go up and down as you win or lose, as it currently does in the points-based system.

Would this make everyone happy? Fans of both systems, as well as the devs who wouldn't be giving out too many rewards or undermining their current income on HP?

WEBGAS

Wumpushunter

They would not have killed win based PVP in a week if they were ever going to bring it back. The whales have spoken. Cash is king.

The rockett

@Wumpushunter  I would love to hear your definition of a whale please. 

spiderpool

Ronburgundy said:

 BRING BACK WIN BASED PROGRESSION!!! 

I have a pretty decent roster in 4* transition with 6 champed 4* and climbing. But I have zero chance at the 900 point progression to get a 4* cover to help me build.  I can get to 800 pretty easily but get hammered from there. I win a match and lose two in the process. Shield hops don't do much good either. No fun at all. 

Say what hat you want about win progression but at least i know if I commit to the grind it will be worth it in the end. 

You do not have zero chance at hitting 900, I know because it wasn't long ago I was at the same stage you are and I was doing it earlier than that with a 3* roster. Learning how to hit 900 consistently is what catapulted me out of 3 star land and into 4 star.  It took time and I had to experiment, I learned what time slice gave me the best chance at hitting 900, when to play,  when to float,  when to sheild. It wasn't easy but once I learned what worked it got easier and easier and soon my 4 star roster grew 

Now I have almost all 4* camped and my highest at lvl 314, I almost always have 2 boosted 4* in pvp and I can hit 900 every time.  Unlike wins based pvp where I hit 900 and still need 20 more wins for the 4* I have a job and family so I never have time to get to 40 wins, I didn't always get the cp either and I missed the season 15 cp for the first time in forever.   I placed worse and got much less rewards for the same or more work. 

Since I don't have time to do pve if they had left pvp the way it was I probably would have quit the game,  I've been playing almost since the very beggining. I know a lot of other long time players on this board and in my alliance also hated win based pvp and were also considering quitting.  I don't think the intention was to drive away people who have been loyal to this game for years in favor of people just starting. 

dr tinykittylove

mexus said:

spiderpool said:

Ronburgundy said:

 BRING BACK WIN BASED PROGRESSION!!! 

I have a pretty decent roster in 4* transition with 6 champed 4* and climbing. But I have zero chance at the 900 point progression to get a 4* cover to help me build.  I can get to 800 pretty easily but get hammered from there. I win a match and lose two in the process. Shield hops don't do much good either. No fun at all. 

Say what hat you want about win progression but at least i know if I commit to the grind it will be worth it in the end. 

You do not have zero chance at hitting 900, I know because it wasn't long ago I was at the same stage you are and I was doing it earlier than that with a 3* roster. Learning how to hit 900 consistently is what catapulted me out of 3 star land and into 4 star.  It took time and I had to experiment, I learned what time slice gave me the best chance at hitting 900, when to play,  when to float,  when to sheild. It wasn't easy but once I learned what worked it got easier and easier and soon my 4 star roster grew 

Now I have almost all 4* camped and my highest at lvl 314, I almost always have 2 boosted 4* in pvp and I can hit 900 every time.  Unlike wins based pvp where I hit 900 and still need 20 more wins for the 4* I have a job and family so I never have time to get to 40 wins, I didn't always get the cp either and I missed the season 15 cp for the first time in forever.   I placed worse and got much less rewards for the same or more work. 

Since I don't have time to do pve if they had left pvp the way it was I probably would have quit the game,  I've been playing almost since the very beggining. I know a lot of other long time players on this board and in my alliance also hated win based pvp and were also considering quitting.  I don't think the intention was to drive away people who have been loyal to this game for years in favor of people just starting. 

Learn when to "float" and all this hopping and whatnot aren't stuff the game teaches us. We are not "bad ay playing PVP" - we match the tiles like intended. When we need to, we shield up.
The fact that 100 peope have found ways to exploit the system by analyzing flips and brackets and learned when to float and no doesn't make me and Ronburgundy bad at matching tiles but it's not fair that we should adapt to game rules that aren't even in the official game guide.

You learn by trial and error. I like to hop around public alliances, and there are many players who do not read the forum or communicate on line, or who even refuse to read the tinykitty alliance chat, and somehow they find their way to 900 or 1.2k or 1.8k when they feel like it. It's not impossible. You try one way, if it doesn't work, try another, and another, and see what works instead of grinding out 40 wins against the weakest teams you can find. 

Daiches

mexus said:

spiderpool said:

Ronburgundy said:

 BRING BACK WIN BASED PROGRESSION!!! 

I have a pretty decent roster in 4* transition with 6 champed 4* and climbing. But I have zero chance at the 900 point progression to get a 4* cover to help me build.  I can get to 800 pretty easily but get hammered from there. I win a match and lose two in the process. Shield hops don't do much good either. No fun at all. 

Say what hat you want about win progression but at least i know if I commit to the grind it will be worth it in the end. 

You do not have zero chance at hitting 900, I know because it wasn't long ago I was at the same stage you are and I was doing it earlier than that with a 3* roster. Learning how to hit 900 consistently is what catapulted me out of 3 star land and into 4 star.  It took time and I had to experiment, I learned what time slice gave me the best chance at hitting 900, when to play,  when to float,  when to sheild. It wasn't easy but once I learned what worked it got easier and easier and soon my 4 star roster grew 

Now I have almost all 4* camped and my highest at lvl 314, I almost always have 2 boosted 4* in pvp and I can hit 900 every time.  Unlike wins based pvp where I hit 900 and still need 20 more wins for the 4* I have a job and family so I never have time to get to 40 wins, I didn't always get the cp either and I missed the season 15 cp for the first time in forever.   I placed worse and got much less rewards for the same or more work. 

Since I don't have time to do pve if they had left pvp the way it was I probably would have quit the game,  I've been playing almost since the very beggining. I know a lot of other long time players on this board and in my alliance also hated win based pvp and were also considering quitting.  I don't think the intention was to drive away people who have been loyal to this game for years in favor of people just starting. 

Learn when to "float" and all this hopping and whatnot aren't stuff the game teaches us. We are not "bad ay playing PVP" - we match the tiles like intended. When we need to, we shield up.
The fact that 100 peope have found ways to exploit the system by analyzing flips and brackets and learned when to float and no doesn't make me and Ronburgundy bad at matching tiles but it's not fair that we should adapt to game rules that aren't even in the official game guide.

There's no game guide. Everything you donyou learn from playing the game and analyzing it. Or like -you know - talking to friends?

or can you point me to the in game explanation of how to PVE? Same thing.