The current pink elephant in the room. 5 star boosted Gambit from ill-gotten gains.

ZeroKarma · November 2017

Avalancher said:

show previous quotes

corytutor said:

Avalancher said:

This was not cheating.

The pitchforks can be put away.

Sheesh, this is absolutely insane how exaggerated some people can get over these things. And we wonder why the developers don't post here anymore...

I wonder if you took advantage of it since you repeatedly call it not cheating, when it so clearly is. What else would you call circumventing the will of the devs and the system by finding a workaround the fix that was implemented? Just dumb luck?

It was clearly cheating and if you think otherwise you clearly have no grasp on the concept of cheating in the first place.

Obviously d3 thinks it was cheating too as they implemented a " punishment" , tho a pretty weak one.

Dude, read the thread. Count the responses that totally disagree with you. Yikes!

I've read the thread. Seems like there are plenty of people that agree with cory and the OP. Many of the ones who disagree seem to think that people:

a) Abused the cheat innocently (demonstrably false)
b) Had really good fortune and got this special deal without any sort of workaround at all (only true before the fix)
c) Think that people got 14cp for $6, not thousands of cp post-fix

These people are also probably not playing the 5* game, nor are they frequent buyers of Starks who realize that much of their spending has now been completely devalued.

So, if finding a way to avoid a game update meant to fix the store, and then receiving wire transfers of money to allow others to make purchases of cp through you, knowing full well that the developers have pushed a fix and do not intend to provide cp with such purchases is not cheating.....then what is?

I'm just curious. Is it only direct hacking of in-game code cheating? The two posts you've shared just say it isn't without any explanation.

Also, for what it's worth. Based on the devs actions they 100% considered this a cheat. So if you are really on their side, then you should be supporting their actions and lamenting that they are unable to do more.

Avalancher · November 2017

So, if finding a way to avoid a game update meant to fix the store, and then receiving wire transfers of money to allow others to make purchases of cp through you, knowing full well that the developers have pushed a fix and do not intend to provide cp with such purchases is not cheating.....then what is?

I'm just curious. Is it only direct hacking of in-game code cheating? The two posts you've shared just say it isn't without any explanation.

Also, for what it's worth. Based on the devs actions they 100% considered this a cheat. So if you are really on their side, then you should be supporting their actions and lamenting that they are unable to do more.

First of all, I love racing you in PvE, even though you beat me every time!

Second, along with about half of the posts in this thread, I think this was a simple matter of exploiting a glitch. Taking advantage of a temporary game condition. I didn't get to do it, but I would not feel bad about it if I did.

Again, but without counting, at least half of the posts in this thread agree with me.

ZeroKarma · November 2017

@Avalancher

I don't disagree that there was a glitch. And I don't fault people that took advantage of it in the beginning. If you noticed it, and were able to buy a bunch of times before they fixed it then more power to you. My feelings are only about after the fix was put in, and the fact everyone knew the devs put the fix in. That's where the issue lies for me.

Also love the S1 races. There are some serious nuts in there! But not sure that I will race there for a while. Anyone know if DST means S1 always ends at 6am? Or does it go back to 7 after this event?

Avalancher · November 2017

I don’t know about the time, and I never knew about the fix until I read this thread. And I still see it as taking advantage of a temporary game condition.

firethorne · November 2017

And I see it as yet another reason to not care about a game where integrity isn't a significant concern.

Avalancher · November 2017

The rest of us will keep enjoying it just the same. Good luck on your quest for perfection.

ViralCore · November 2017

Vhailorx said:

show previous quotes

alaeth said:

byc said:

What I don't understand is why this isn't the norm?

If they want to make $$$, devalue their in-game currencies and let the players loose. Let them spends thousands to take advantage.

Let's make it P2W.

There already are Buyers lined up to spend... I've personally witnessed the same person buy 7 Starks in one day ($700). An Alliance-mate quit because his wife found out he spent mid-5 figures the previous year. The game already IS pay-to-win.

The running joke at the top end whale is "What are Hero Points?" They're what you get when you buy CP.

CP is the real end-game currency, and having people EXPLOIT a BUG (after it was patched via a data push) should be rolled back (or identified and sandboxed).

Should be TRIVIAL to identify the buyers based on repeated non-stop $2 purchases.

But it's not trvial. The entire store is automated, no one is overseeing the process in real time. So d3 would have to sort the data by sine set of pre-selected suspicious criteria. Easy enough as you say. THEN someone has to go go through the flagged transactions manually to make sure that you have captured the "bad" actors but not too many innocent bystanders. Then it would be smart have to iterate the process with different criteria a few times because the first set may have some unexpected limitations. And d3 would have to have extra CS resources available to deal with anything that still slips through.

I am not saying it's impossible, but let's not pretend it is a simple task that d3 could do with minimal effort.

D3 admits to knowing who cheated. The line community also knows that some of them are the same people who used the *other* cheats.

*Removed reference to past exploits -Ducky

Avalanche Kincaid · November 2017

I'm not sure how many people covered gambit buying massive amounts of cheap cp since lots of people were waiting for doc ock to leave before using their cp, but gambit is only OP right now because of the stupid boost he's gotten. He is definitely top tier, but use strange, your own gambit or mbw teamup and take him out first when not boosted. Panther is also solid choice, just need to time when gambit is going to fire. Hell, coulson hawk will can still do the job, just need that stun to fire (a bit tricky so bring mbw just in case). 3 weeks from now thor will be OP. Boosted 5* is the real pink elephant, what ever that means. How many people used this to get gambit? From what I read here it does'nt seem like that much. Did only 1 alliance do this? Were there others that abused this before the patch to a lesser extent? I'd like to know the extent of this, but if the flood of gambits was because of this and not hording then just take all the cp back and give refunds.

Avalancher · November 2017

The flood of Gambits was not from this.

whitecat31 · November 2017

I appreciate you two sharing camaraderie over your PVE competiveness, even though you two disagree on the issue being discussed.

Now I specifically, have avoided calling what happened cheating. I know that some people legitimately got Gambit on their own merits, and I do not want any type of shade being tossed at people with some type of guilt by association situation. I have tried to put the onus on Demiurge/D3.

We know that people circumvented the fix put in by Demiurge after a data push, they continued to make many 2 dollar purchases after the fact. People sent money to the people with the 2 dollar for 7 command points exploit still available, and had them do purchases while they were in an alliance with them. They abused/exploited the system. The fix is easy from an integrity point of view. Refund all those 2 dollar purchases and take away all those command points. Or roll back those people accounts who got all those command points.

As far as we can tell nobody has really been punished, no fix has been done to restore integrity to the game.

At this point I can't tell which has more integrity, this game, or Fox news.

ViralCore · November 2017

Avalancher said:

The flood of Gambits was not from this.

We're talking about the Gambits that occurred from the exploit, not the number of gambits as a whole. These people have a 460+ Gambit when they wouldn't otherwise - don't muddy the waters. 2 seconds after it was discovered the line community lit up looking for people with Samsung Tablets so they could exploit it. People sent hundreds of dollars to their alliance mates who could exploit.

alaeth · November 2017

@Vhailorx

I disagree... it is extremely trivial...

I do data-mining like this almost daily... it's just event correlation based on a starting point (time).

We already know the time (down to the minute) - it's when the patch was pushed out. That's when you start anaylizing purchases.

Flag every single $2 purchase, put it in bucket A.

Now check the account of the purchaser and compare CP growth +/- 30 seconds of purchase. If +7, flag as "suspicious activity".

Without verifying when that account got the data push, you still do not nail them to the wall for "exploiting a patched defect". But, if they did receive the patch, and then purchased...

I'll even be generous and give them 30 minutes grace period.

From what I heard (hearsay... I know) - the person who managed to stay in the buy screen remained there for HOURS after the bug was fixed via data push.

That account - the willing exploiter(s) - gets sandboxed.

I could start making assumptions on what data is captured for each purchase (player name, date & time, alliance name, etc) which also makes it fairly simple to cross-reference player names in alliance X at time of purchase.

Avalancher · November 2017

And maybe they did this and it was not as bad as people IMAGINE it was?

ViralCore · November 2017

alaeth said:

@Vhailorx

I disagree... it is extremely trivial...

I do data-mining like this almost daily... it's just event correlation based on a starting point (time).

We already know the time (down to the minute) - it's when the patch was pushed out. That's when you start anaylizing purchases.

Flag every single $2 purchase, put it in bucket A.

Now check the account of the purchaser and compare CP growth +/- 30 seconds of purchase. If +7, flag as "suspicious activity".

Without verifying when that account got the data push, you still do not nail them to the wall for "exploiting a patched defect". But, if they did receive the patch, and then purchased...

I'll even be generous and give them 30 minutes grace period.

From what I heard (hearsay... I know) - the person who managed to stay in the buy screen remained there for HOURS after the bug was fixed via data push.

That account - the willing exploiter(s) - gets sandboxed.

I could start making assumptions on what data is captured for each purchase (player name, date & time, alliance name, etc) which also makes it fairly simple to cross-reference player names in alliance X at time of purchase.

They know exactly who the exploiters are, there's a screenshot floating around where d3 even says so. The only punishment they get is 2 weeks without cover swapping.

ViralCore · November 2017

Avalancher said:

And maybe they did this and it was not as bad as people IMAGINE it was?

If you're on line, you would know how bad it was.

TF1977 · November 2017

Vhailorx said:

show previous quotes

TF1977 said:

Hey all - I've been lurking here for a long time and just joined because of this issue.

I've been playing this game since 3* Thor was introduced.
I've spent money (not whale money) but some and have been a VIP since it was introduced.
I had 1 5* champion OML who was champed a month prior to him being nerfed.
I now have 5 champed 5* and all but 6 4* champed. I farm 2* and 3*.
I play every day. I can be top 5 in PVE and top 10 PVP (before the switch to wins) most of the time, schedule allowing.

That's all to say I'm invested because this is a good game. There are times (like the OML nerf, the vaulting of 4*, etc) that I disagree with what D3 has done. I hate buyers clubs. I really dislike hit lists and retribution from alliances (dear lord that's weak). But I keep playing.

This week, reading this thread - has been the first time I actually got PO'd. This game VALUES time spent like no other. It's really, really hard to get 5* champed. It takes time. The game demands that you play it a lot to get close to the top. I like that it values a deep roster, built up over time. Dare I say - I take pride - in my roster.

2 things.

1. 5* Gambit is ruining the game. He's way, way overpowered. He needs a nerf, or all of the 5* not named BB or Thanos needs a boost. I see a lot of 5* Gambit. And when I thought "some people just hoarded and cashed in at the right time" I still thought he needed to be nerfed - but it's a tough call for D3. OML proved that in some ways. Just make him autogenerate 1 color. Or make him easier to take down.

2. But, it's crazy that for a game that values time invested so much - would give away cheap CP with no repercussions. It's absolutely tinykitty. Give everyone a window at this deal who didn't catch it or find a way to fix it. NOW.

If you value long time players who play by the rules at all, fix Gambit and fix this cheap giveaway.

By all means feel however you feel about the $2 cp exploit. But I think it's worth remembering that Gambit was universally seen by the community as very strong, and there are two completely unrelated factors that led to a lot of people cracking open long-brewing hoards to chase him:

(1) His release tokens (mes amis tokens) were bugged at release, so for about 3 hours 5*s (gambit, OML, and Phoenix) were dropping at 25% from those tokens. Lots of people cashed in CP for him then.

and

(2) Gambit's introduction to the LT pool a few weeks ago was first time since something like March that 3 consensus strong 5*s had been in the latest token pool. The current LTs are pretty clearly the most attractive token pool since the Thanos/BP/Hawkeye tokens which were last available sometime in March or April of 2017. So lots of players who didn't get a chance to use the $2cp exploit (like myself ) had already been hoarding for several months when gambit became available.

I am sure that several dozen people have shiny champed gambits almost entirely because of the $2cp exploit. But many many more players just made efficient use of their resources and maximized their ability to draw LTs when a good 5* arrived (and gambit is definitely very good).

I'm cool with people who hoard, waiting for someone to spend on. That's smart. My problem is not with that at all.

My complaint is simple:

Due to dev error, some players were able to bypass the hard work and time invested that getting CP and 5* covers normally require. The result is that I've been playing this game the right way for 4 years and am now unable to beat an overpowered character who as a result of bugs is more ubiquitous than he should be.

D3 should be working on a corrective measure for the advantage the $2 exploit gave. They should also be working towards a solution to a way, way too powerful 5*... I think a nerf is the only way to go, honestly.

TF1977 · November 2017

Doesn't need to be considered cheating to be unfair and a problem.

Avalancher said:

This was not cheating.

The pitchforks can be put away.

Sheesh, this is absolutely insane how exaggerated some people can get over these things. And we wonder why the developers don't post here anymore...

Bowgentle · November 2017

TF1977 said:

show previous quotes

Vhailorx said:

TF1977 said:

Hey all - I've been lurking here for a long time and just joined because of this issue.

I've been playing this game since 3* Thor was introduced.
I've spent money (not whale money) but some and have been a VIP since it was introduced.
I had 1 5* champion OML who was champed a month prior to him being nerfed.
I now have 5 champed 5* and all but 6 4* champed. I farm 2* and 3*.
I play every day. I can be top 5 in PVE and top 10 PVP (before the switch to wins) most of the time, schedule allowing.

That's all to say I'm invested because this is a good game. There are times (like the OML nerf, the vaulting of 4*, etc) that I disagree with what D3 has done. I hate buyers clubs. I really dislike hit lists and retribution from alliances (dear lord that's weak). But I keep playing.

This week, reading this thread - has been the first time I actually got PO'd. This game VALUES time spent like no other. It's really, really hard to get 5* champed. It takes time. The game demands that you play it a lot to get close to the top. I like that it values a deep roster, built up over time. Dare I say - I take pride - in my roster.

2 things.

1. 5* Gambit is ruining the game. He's way, way overpowered. He needs a nerf, or all of the 5* not named BB or Thanos needs a boost. I see a lot of 5* Gambit. And when I thought "some people just hoarded and cashed in at the right time" I still thought he needed to be nerfed - but it's a tough call for D3. OML proved that in some ways. Just make him autogenerate 1 color. Or make him easier to take down.

2. But, it's crazy that for a game that values time invested so much - would give away cheap CP with no repercussions. It's absolutely tinykitty. Give everyone a window at this deal who didn't catch it or find a way to fix it. NOW.

If you value long time players who play by the rules at all, fix Gambit and fix this cheap giveaway.

By all means feel however you feel about the $2 cp exploit. But I think it's worth remembering that Gambit was universally seen by the community as very strong, and there are two completely unrelated factors that led to a lot of people cracking open long-brewing hoards to chase him:

(1) His release tokens (mes amis tokens) were bugged at release, so for about 3 hours 5*s (gambit, OML, and Phoenix) were dropping at 25% from those tokens. Lots of people cashed in CP for him then.

and

(2) Gambit's introduction to the LT pool a few weeks ago was first time since something like March that 3 consensus strong 5*s had been in the latest token pool. The current LTs are pretty clearly the most attractive token pool since the Thanos/BP/Hawkeye tokens which were last available sometime in March or April of 2017. So lots of players who didn't get a chance to use the $2cp exploit (like myself ) had already been hoarding for several months when gambit became available.

I am sure that several dozen people have shiny champed gambits almost entirely because of the $2cp exploit. But many many more players just made efficient use of their resources and maximized their ability to draw LTs when a good 5* arrived (and gambit is definitely very good).

I'm cool with people who hoard, waiting for someone to spend on. That's smart. My problem is not with that at all.

My complaint is simple:

Due to dev error, some players were able to bypass the hard work and time invested that getting CP and 5* covers normally require. The result is that I've been playing this game the right way for 4 years and am now unable to beat an overpowered character who as a result of bugs is more ubiquitous than he should be.

D3 should be working on a corrective measure for the advantage the $2 exploit gave. They should also be working towards a solution to a way, way too powerful 5*... I think a nerf is the only way to go, honestly.

Gambit is fine.
That idiotic 90 level boost in PVP is the problem here.

Avalancher · November 2017

ViralCore said:

show previous quotes

Avalancher said:

And maybe they did this and it was not as bad as people IMAGINE it was?

If you're on line, you would know how bad it was.

Actually, you are very wrong.

I am on Line. I talk to the biggest of whales. They talk to the company itself.

This is not a major issue. Hacking gets sandboxed, and there are constant measures in place to stop it.

This, on the other hand, is just a bunch of pitchforks about a small issue.

It does not need all this fuss. Relax and play the game. Enjoy yourselves!

TF1977 · November 2017

Bowgentle said:

show previous quotes

TF1977 said:

Vhailorx said:

TF1977 said:

Hey all - I've been lurking here for a long time and just joined because of this issue.

I've been playing this game since 3* Thor was introduced.
I've spent money (not whale money) but some and have been a VIP since it was introduced.
I had 1 5* champion OML who was champed a month prior to him being nerfed.
I now have 5 champed 5* and all but 6 4* champed. I farm 2* and 3*.
I play every day. I can be top 5 in PVE and top 10 PVP (before the switch to wins) most of the time, schedule allowing.

That's all to say I'm invested because this is a good game. There are times (like the OML nerf, the vaulting of 4*, etc) that I disagree with what D3 has done. I hate buyers clubs. I really dislike hit lists and retribution from alliances (dear lord that's weak). But I keep playing.

This week, reading this thread - has been the first time I actually got PO'd. This game VALUES time spent like no other. It's really, really hard to get 5* champed. It takes time. The game demands that you play it a lot to get close to the top. I like that it values a deep roster, built up over time. Dare I say - I take pride - in my roster.

2 things.

1. 5* Gambit is ruining the game. He's way, way overpowered. He needs a nerf, or all of the 5* not named BB or Thanos needs a boost. I see a lot of 5* Gambit. And when I thought "some people just hoarded and cashed in at the right time" I still thought he needed to be nerfed - but it's a tough call for D3. OML proved that in some ways. Just make him autogenerate 1 color. Or make him easier to take down.

2. But, it's crazy that for a game that values time invested so much - would give away cheap CP with no repercussions. It's absolutely tinykitty. Give everyone a window at this deal who didn't catch it or find a way to fix it. NOW.

If you value long time players who play by the rules at all, fix Gambit and fix this cheap giveaway.

By all means feel however you feel about the $2 cp exploit. But I think it's worth remembering that Gambit was universally seen by the community as very strong, and there are two completely unrelated factors that led to a lot of people cracking open long-brewing hoards to chase him:

(1) His release tokens (mes amis tokens) were bugged at release, so for about 3 hours 5*s (gambit, OML, and Phoenix) were dropping at 25% from those tokens. Lots of people cashed in CP for him then.

and

(2) Gambit's introduction to the LT pool a few weeks ago was first time since something like March that 3 consensus strong 5*s had been in the latest token pool. The current LTs are pretty clearly the most attractive token pool since the Thanos/BP/Hawkeye tokens which were last available sometime in March or April of 2017. So lots of players who didn't get a chance to use the $2cp exploit (like myself ) had already been hoarding for several months when gambit became available.

I am sure that several dozen people have shiny champed gambits almost entirely because of the $2cp exploit. But many many more players just made efficient use of their resources and maximized their ability to draw LTs when a good 5* arrived (and gambit is definitely very good).

I'm cool with people who hoard, waiting for someone to spend on. That's smart. My problem is not with that at all.

My complaint is simple:

Due to dev error, some players were able to bypass the hard work and time invested that getting CP and 5* covers normally require. The result is that I've been playing this game the right way for 4 years and am now unable to beat an overpowered character who as a result of bugs is more ubiquitous than he should be.

D3 should be working on a corrective measure for the advantage the $2 exploit gave. They should also be working towards a solution to a way, way too powerful 5*... I think a nerf is the only way to go, honestly.

Gambit is fine.
That idiotic 90 level boost in PVP is the problem here.

That could be. I can reserve judgement until after it's gone.

The current pink elephant in the room. 5 star boosted Gambit from ill-gotten gains.

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