Vhailorx said: Fightmastermpq said: You cover and champ a 4* like Iceman by setting him as your only 4* BH, and setting Mystique as your only 3* BH. I've added something like 40 levels to my Iceman since vaulting went live by doing exactly this. He is currently 369 and I'm just waiting to finish off my Mystique dupe for his final cover. I switched to C4rol a couple weeks ago and have already pulled half a dozen BH covers for her.Long term health of the game? Vaulting has little to no impact, and BH offers a distinctly positive impact. In the long term players are earning ISO at the same rate, and champing characters at the same rate. The total number of champed characters on your roster will be the same, and your odds of having a boosted/featured character champed will be the same regardless.What was really killing the long term health of the game was dilution, and vaulting solved it at the 4* tier. You are a 5* player at the (almost) highest tier of play (keep working on those 550s!). You have gotten 40 something Iceman covers in 5 months. GrimSkald is also a super-vet and he (or she) has gotten 36 4* bonus covers. I am modest 4* vet in maybe the top 15 or 20% of rosters. I have gotten somewhere around 15-20 4* bonus covers (and still no 5* covers!).So your solution, fight, is that a new player needs to build up a roster sufficient to compete at at least my level (which is far from the top of the mountain, but still offers multiple boosted 4*s each week and rewards that are largely dictated by my dedication to grinding rather than my roster), and THEN spend about 3 months opening LTs with a single target 4* set as the only favorite. And at the end of all that they get a single 275 character. Out of about 40 vaulted 4*s, with a vault that is growing all the time. And this even though all 50-whatever 4*s cycle through the weekly and featured lists equally? It's just not a viable solution. Dilution was a real and growing problem. vaulting is a terrible solution in that in solves one small portion of the problem and makes the rest of the problem even worse than it was before. And that's before we even consider the effect on the champion system that most players really like. It's wildly obvious that demi needs to increase the availability of vintage 4*s (and to a lesser extent vintage 3*s). There are tons of ways for demi to do this. Instead we have received bland, and logically flawed, statements about how they are tracking the problem but implementing the player-proposed solutions won't work and absolutely nothing else from demi. It's pathetic the playerbase deserves better.
Fightmastermpq said: You cover and champ a 4* like Iceman by setting him as your only 4* BH, and setting Mystique as your only 3* BH. I've added something like 40 levels to my Iceman since vaulting went live by doing exactly this. He is currently 369 and I'm just waiting to finish off my Mystique dupe for his final cover. I switched to C4rol a couple weeks ago and have already pulled half a dozen BH covers for her.Long term health of the game? Vaulting has little to no impact, and BH offers a distinctly positive impact. In the long term players are earning ISO at the same rate, and champing characters at the same rate. The total number of champed characters on your roster will be the same, and your odds of having a boosted/featured character champed will be the same regardless.What was really killing the long term health of the game was dilution, and vaulting solved it at the 4* tier.
Vhailorx said: You are a 5* player at the (almost) highest tier of play (keep working on those 550s!). You have gotten 40 something Iceman covers in 5 months. GrimSkald is also a super-vet and he (or she) has gotten 36 4* bonus covers. I am modest 4* vet in maybe the top 15 or 20% of rosters. I have gotten somewhere around 15-20 4* bonus covers (and still no 5* covers!).So your solution, fight, is that a new player needs to build up a roster sufficient to compete at at least my level (which is far from the top of the mountain, but still offers multiple boosted 4*s each week and rewards that are largely dictated by my dedication to grinding rather than my roster), and THEN spend about 3 months opening LTs with a single target 4* set as the only favorite. And at the end of all that they get a single 275 character. Out of about 40 vaulted 4*s, with a vault that is growing all the time. And this even though all 50-whatever 4*s cycle through the weekly and featured lists equally? It's just not a viable solution. Dilution was a real and growing problem. vaulting is a terrible solution in that in solves one small portion of the problem and makes the rest of the problem even worse than it was before. And that's before we even consider the effect on the champion system that most players really like. It's wildly obvious that demi needs to increase the availability of vintage 4*s (and to a lesser extent vintage 3*s). There are tons of ways for demi to do this. Instead we have received bland, and logically flawed, statements about how they are tracking the problem but implementing the player-proposed solutions won't work and absolutely nothing else from demi. It's pathetic the playerbase deserves better.
I wouldn't call myself a super-vet - I only have base-level (ish) 5*s. I am a 5* tier player, though, and of course that makes a difference.
Here's the thing, any increase in availability of older characters is going to have a corresponding decrease in the players' ability to cover newer characters. Unless they increase (significantly) the number of covers that drop in the game. Everyone would love that, sure, but that's not their vision for the game. In fact they already have increased the number of covers that drop in the game - bonus heroes are an increase. Sure, it's only a 5% increase, but that's certainly not 0.
Warbringa said: My reaction to vaulting has somewhat lessened in vitriol as I do see how it helps new players (and veteran players) cover new characters. On the other hand, it is a simple fix to offer veteran players (or new players if they choose) a vintage token option to fill out older characters. The easiest fix would be to simply add a third 20 CP token called vintage legends that offers all other 4* not in current tokens. What I would really like to see is legendary 25 CP tokens offer the current 12 new heroes, legend classic tokens offer the next 12 4* characters that just phased out and then the new token offers you the chance for all of the rest of the 4* out there. You could also split 5* so that it helps reduce RNG somewhat in those draws. For 3* characters, simply offer a vintage heroic or a current heroic. Another option would be to have an additional bonus heroes option where you could designate three characters from each tier that can be added to all of your appropriate token tier draws. For example, if I wanted to work on my Peggy Carter (who is 3/3/2), I could designate her as one of my three 4* options which then means I have a chance to draw one of her covers with every event, heroic, or legendary token I open, along with the new 12 too of course. It is an optional dilution that each player could choose to do or not do?
GrimSkald said: broll said: How is making a seperate CP store for older 4*s and making the vintage heroes token/HP store a jump in 4* availablity or a huge coding project? Those are the suggestions I see the most. Sure there are some crazy ideas like let me chose 6 of the 12 that would be a ton of work but those are not the majority. That's a pretty good idea, but they've been fairly reluctant to add options to existing stores - I'm not 100% sure why as it seems like a good solution to their 5* dilution problem as well. Possibly they feel the more options on the internal screens, the more likely people are to mess them up and complain.Interestingly enough, if, say a store existed where I could spend 20 CP to draw from the full (or non-recent) 4* pool and the "Classic" 5*s... I'd probably pass it up. I'm interested to see where this train goes. We won't know the "full" impact until Iron Fist gets phased out - he was the first 4* introduced after the system. Mine is currently 290.
broll said: How is making a seperate CP store for older 4*s and making the vintage heroes token/HP store a jump in 4* availablity or a huge coding project? Those are the suggestions I see the most. Sure there are some crazy ideas like let me chose 6 of the 12 that would be a ton of work but those are not the majority.
That's a pretty good idea, but they've been fairly reluctant to add options to existing stores - I'm not 100% sure why as it seems like a good solution to their 5* dilution problem as well. Possibly they feel the more options on the internal screens, the more likely people are to mess them up and complain.
Interestingly enough, if, say a store existed where I could spend 20 CP to draw from the full (or non-recent) 4* pool and the "Classic" 5*s... I'd probably pass it up. I'm interested to see where this train goes. We won't know the "full" impact until Iron Fist gets phased out - he was the first 4* introduced after the system. Mine is currently 290.
Vhailorx said:So your solution, fight, is that a new player needs to build up a roster sufficient to compete at at least my level (which is far from the top of the mountain, but still offers multiple boosted 4*s each week and rewards that are largely dictated by my dedication to grinding rather than my roster), and THEN spend about 3 months opening LTs with a single target 4* set as the only favorite. And at the end of all that they get a single 275 character. Out of about 40 vaulted 4*s, with a vault that is growing all the time. And this even though all 50-whatever 4*s cycle through the weekly and featured lists equally?
GrimSkald said: Here's the thing, any increase in availability of older characters is going to have a corresponding decrease in the players' ability to cover newer characters. Unless they increase (significantly) the number of covers that drop in the game. Everyone would love that, sure, but that's not their vision for the game. In fact they already have increased the number of covers that drop in the game - bonus heroes are an increase. Sure, it's only a 5% increase, but that's certainly not 0.
GrimSkald said: I wouldn't call myself a super-vet - I only have base-level (ish) 5*s. I am a 5* tier player, though, and of course that makes a difference.Here's the thing, any increase in availability of older characters is going to have a corresponding decrease in the players' ability to cover newer characters. Unless they increase (significantly) the number of covers that drop in the game. Everyone would love that, sure, but that's not their vision for the game. In fact they already have increased the number of covers that drop in the game - bonus heroes are an increase. Sure, it's only a 5% increase, but that's certainly not 0.
Vhailorx said: Fightmastermpq said: Vhailorx said: Can we get a redname comment on the issue? What exactly is the issue? C'mon fight, we all know you like the vaulting+bh change, but YOU know that lots of people disagree with your position. Contribute something to the conversation or move along. . .
Fightmastermpq said: Vhailorx said: Can we get a redname comment on the issue? What exactly is the issue?
Vhailorx said: Can we get a redname comment on the issue?
Vhailorx said:That's just not true skald. Token drop rates are a zero sum game, but only if the players can't choose which tokens to open.
Brigby said: Hi Everyone. Many players seem to be focusing on the 4-Star element of "Vaulting," so before moving further, may I ask who out of this thread is currently transitioning into, or residing within, "4-Star Land?" Since it seems to be the major focus point, it'd be great to hear feedback specifically from that demographic.
Wumpushunter said: All these people saying just champ the new people avoid the old. I will take Peggy, iceman and teen jean vs your riri, sandman and star lord. The new characters stink compared to the ones they stole from new players. They can fix dilution by giving people CHOICE, not slamming a pay barrier over the best 4 stars.