MarkersMake said: Yes. But for 3* players, who would use Peggy to hit above their weight, vaulting has suddenly resulted in a huge jump in the predator to prey ratio.
Fightmastermpq said: MarkersMake said: Yes. But for 3* players, who would use Peggy to hit above their weight, vaulting has suddenly resulted in a huge jump in the predator to prey ratio. I honestly can't tell if you are arguing with me or agreeing with me here. Those 3* players can either set Peggy as BH, or champ newer 4* characters and become the predator rather than the prey much faster now.
MarkersMake said: Fightmastermpq said: MarkersMake said: Yes. But for 3* players, who would use Peggy to hit above their weight, vaulting has suddenly resulted in a huge jump in the predator to prey ratio. I honestly can't tell if you are arguing with me or agreeing with me here. Those 3* players can either set Peggy as BH, or champ newer 4* characters and become the predator rather than the prey much faster now. Ha, sort of both. As a recent 3* graduate, poking your head above 600 was an invitation to get your head knocked clean off. 800 was for people who shielded a lot (bought HP, I assume) and 900 was a fairy tale. And that was before the 4* power bump that everyone can get now. I'm honestly not sure if even reaching 575 and the cp it comes with is going to be as easy as it used to be (which in turn makes getting those 4* champs tougher).
MarkersMake said: But a thought just occurred to me. One of the main sources of 4* pulls when I transitioned were the LTs I got from each of my 3* champs. With vaulting, half of those options are going to be gone. Here's your 20LTs (best case), hope you have some CP?So as far as setting Peggy as a BH, where are they going to get 260 4* pulls from? That's before deducting 15% for 5*s and assuming perfect covers..
New McG said: MarkersMake said: But a thought just occurred to me. One of the main sources of 4* pulls when I transitioned were the LTs I got from each of my 3* champs. With vaulting, half of those options are going to be gone. Here's your 20LTs (best case), hope you have some CP?So as far as setting Peggy as a BH, where are they going to get 260 4* pulls from? That's before deducting 15% for 5*s and assuming perfect covers.. You're also assuming they're only buying LT, and never happen into a 4* from another place, like a Heroic token, event token, etc. The math is by no means simple on all of this, and for many, even having solid math that shows it's beneficial to them wouldn't be enough to convince them that their roster growth benefits from vaulting.
New McG said: MarkersMake said: Fightmastermpq said: MarkersMake said: Yes. But for 3* players, who would use Peggy to hit above their weight, vaulting has suddenly resulted in a huge jump in the predator to prey ratio. I honestly can't tell if you are arguing with me or agreeing with me here. Those 3* players can either set Peggy as BH, or champ newer 4* characters and become the predator rather than the prey much faster now. Ha, sort of both. As a recent 3* graduate, poking your head above 600 was an invitation to get your head knocked clean off. 800 was for people who shielded a lot (bought HP, I assume) and 900 was a fairy tale. And that was before the 4* power bump that everyone can get now. I'm honestly not sure if even reaching 575 and the cp it comes with is going to be as easy as it used to be (which in turn makes getting those 4* champs tougher). 575 shouldn't be a huge issue at the point you're at. The run to 900 is a different story. Even with a top tier 4 like Peggy, having her as your only real 4* heavy hitter makes you a target no matter what boosted 3 and featured character you might pair with her.
New McG said: MarkersMake said: Fightmastermpq said: MarkersMake said: Yes. But for 3* players, who would use Peggy to hit above their weight, vaulting has suddenly resulted in a huge jump in the predator to prey ratio. I honestly can't tell if you are arguing with me or agreeing with me here. Those 3* players can either set Peggy as BH, or champ newer 4* characters and become the predator rather than the prey much faster now. Ha, sort of both. As a recent 3* graduate, poking your head above 600 was an invitation to get your head knocked clean off. 800 was for people who shielded a lot (bought HP, I assume) and 900 was a fairy tale. And that was before the 4* power bump that everyone can get now. I'm honestly not sure if even reaching 575 and the cp it comes with is going to be as easy as it used to be (which in turn makes getting those 4* champs tougher). 575 shouldn't be a huge issue at the point you're at. The run to 900 is a different story. Even with a top tier 4 like Peggy, having her as your only real 4* heavy hitter makes you a target no matter what boosted 3 and featured character you might pair with her. I've got close to 20 champed 4s now and 900 can still be a dicey proposition depending on boosted characters and how much of a slog the matches can be when you're trying to win matches in a quick fashion. I'm almost relieved when the 900 reward is something I don't need or can't use. Takes the pressure off to make that push. If I can hit the 800/825/850 rewards, awesome. If not, well, I'm not spending HP to shield and compete in PVP, so wherever I end up is cool.
MarkersMake said: New McG said: MarkersMake said: But a thought just occurred to me. One of the main sources of 4* pulls when I transitioned were the LTs I got from each of my 3* champs. With vaulting, half of those options are going to be gone. Here's your 20LTs (best case), hope you have some CP?So as far as setting Peggy as a BH, where are they going to get 260 4* pulls from? That's before deducting 15% for 5*s and assuming perfect covers.. You're also assuming they're only buying LT, and never happen into a 4* from another place, like a Heroic token, event token, etc. The math is by no means simple on all of this, and for many, even having solid math that shows it's beneficial to them wouldn't be enough to convince them that their roster growth benefits from vaulting. Well, heroics won't help with Peggy since she's vaulted. So it's just event tokens and CP/LTs, right? EDIT - even PvE rewards for a Peggy cover are going to be tough. Progression, sure. But placement will require alignment of the stars, because with vaulted 3*s AND vaulted 4*s, the chances of such a player having both 3* and 4* essentials rostered AND being able to parlay that into a t10 finish as well are..... slim.
Starfury said: Alsmir said: With different CLs available, even my casual play lets me usually hit top100 (granted I play on CL7 instead of 8). So are we talking about those super casual players that make the majority of player base?If you don't hit the top100, most likely you won't even get close to max progression in PvE and not hit 575 points in PvP.That limits your CP gains to maybe 10 from PvE and some extras from buritos. This will give you maybe 100cp per month? Even with some extra rewards that player will get maybe 7 LTs per month. Without hoarding he will have to rely on a lot of luck from RNG to cover anyone, before they get vaulted. If you're hitting top 100 you're not a casual player. (I suppose you're hitting max progression in PvE, which means you play for more than an hour each and every day)
Alsmir said: With different CLs available, even my casual play lets me usually hit top100 (granted I play on CL7 instead of 8). So are we talking about those super casual players that make the majority of player base?If you don't hit the top100, most likely you won't even get close to max progression in PvE and not hit 575 points in PvP.That limits your CP gains to maybe 10 from PvE and some extras from buritos. This will give you maybe 100cp per month? Even with some extra rewards that player will get maybe 7 LTs per month. Without hoarding he will have to rely on a lot of luck from RNG to cover anyone, before they get vaulted.
Fightmastermpq said: Sorry, I thought your question was rhetorical. No one has any issue adding a token to give players more options. If you want to subject yourself to the snails pace of progress that dilution brings then I'm not here to stop you. But I think the community as a whole would be better keeping the current vaulting mechanic in place.
MarkersMake said: Ah you're right. Still, it's 1% for a 4* BH out of a heroic, so maybe 2 or 3 covers out of there. Any way you look at it though, by the time you cover her you'll have pulled 200+ other 4* covers. She'll be irrelevant by then.
Fightmastermpq said:But in the absence of those other options we have vaulting. And people being uninterested in hearing why the system might be better for them is EXACTLY the problem I've been facing ever since vaulting was rolled out. Because those people are raging and trying to kill a system that has merit without even a willingness to fully consider it.
optimus2861 said: Fightmastermpq said:But in the absence of those other options we have vaulting. And people being uninterested in hearing why the system might be better for them is EXACTLY the problem I've been facing ever since vaulting was rolled out. Because those people are raging and trying to kill a system that has merit without even a willingness to fully consider it. "If you have to EXPLAIN the joke, THERE IS NO JOKE!" - the Joker. If the system is better for players, it needs to be self-evident and should leave the player going, Hey, this is pretty great! It shouldn't leave the players screaming, Why the (expletive of choice) can't I get covers for (favourite character X) anymore?!?! Human nature being what it is, players will focus on the significant and immediate drawback and not any theoretical, possibly-realized-in-the-future positive.But then communications has never been Demiurge's strong point. Ham-fistedness is more like it.