Vision (Android Avenger) Updates Coming Soon

David [Hi-Fi] MooreDavid [Hi-Fi] Moore Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,872 Site Admin
edited March 2016 in MPQ General Discussion
Hello everyone,

Here are details from Demiurge regarding planned updates for Vision (Android Avenger) arriving along with the R95 update.
    "With Vision, we wanted to help him out mechanically and give him a bit of a boost. We tweaked his AI to avoid casting his Density abilities if the same one was on the board. You will no longer see Vision casting Density: Heavy if a Heavy Countdown tiles is already on the board. You will also see a universal increase in all his abilities' power."

Density: Heavy - bluetile.png 5
Vision alters his density, making himself heavy and strong. Creates a Density: Heavy 4-turn Countdown Tile. While this tile is on the board, Vision deals 128 more damage and his Red power becomes Heavy Strike. Removes any existing Density: Light tile.
Level 2: Vision deals 154 more damage.
Level 3: Vision deals 179 more damage.
Level 4: Vision deals 230 more damage.
Level 5: Vision deals 333 more damage.

MAX: Vision alters his density, making himself heavy and strong. Creates a Density: Heavy 4-turn Countdown Tile. While this tile is on the board, Vision deals 1040 more damage and his Red power becomes Heavy Strike. Removes any existing Density: Light tile.
    (Old Values: Density: Heavy - 5 AP Vision increases his density, making himself incredibly heavy. Creates a Density: Heavy Blue 4-turn Countdown Tile. While this tile is on the board, Vision deals 88 more damage and his Red power becomes Heavy Strike. Destroys any existing Density tile. Level 2: Vision deals 106 more damage. Level 3: Vision deals 123 more damage. Level 4: Vision deals 158 more damage. Level 5: Vision deals 229 more damage.)

Attack Protocol - redtile.png 10
Changes based on Vision’s density.
Solar Beam - Deals 187 damage and destroys a random + of tiles.
Light Disruption - Converts up to 2 enemy Strike or Protect tiles to basic tiles. Deals 220 damage per tile.
Heavy Strike - Deals 279 damage to the enemy team.
Level 2: Solar Beam deals 271 damage. Light Disruption deals 292 damage per tile converted. Heavy Strike hits the enemy team for 335 damage.
Level 3: Solar Beam deals 357 damage. Light Disruption deals 364 damage per tile converted. Heavy Strike hits the enemy team for 391 damage.
Level 4: Solar Beam deals 527 damage. Light Disruption deals 507 damage per tile converted. Heavy Strike hits the enemy team for 502 damage.
Level 5: Solar Beam deals 868 damage. Light Disruption deals 795 damage per tile converted. Heavy Strike hits the enemy team for 725 damage.

MAX: Changes based on Vision’s density.
Solar Beam - Deals 2710 damage and destroys a random + of tiles.
Light Disruption - Converts up to 2 enemy Strike or Protect tiles to basic tiles. Deals 2481 damage per tile.
Heavy Strike - Deals 2259 damage to the enemy team.
    (Old Values: Attack Protocol - 10 AP Changes based on Vision's density. Solar Beam - Deals 184 damage and destroys a random + of tiles. Light Disruption - Converts up to 2 enemy Strike or Protect tiles to basic tiles. Deals 137 damage per tile. Heavy Strike - Deals 274 damage to the enemy team. Level 2: Solar beam deals 267 damage. Light disruption deals 192 damage per tile converted. Heavy strike hits the enemy team for 329 damage. Level 3: Solar beam deals 351 damage. Light disruption deals 247 damage per tile converted. Heavy strike hits the enemy team for 384 damage. Level 4: Solar beam deals 519 damage. Light disruption deals 356 damage per tile converted. Heavy strike hits the enemy team for 493 damage. Level 5: Solar beam deals 854 damage. Light disruption deals 575 damage per tile converted. Heavy strike hits the enemy team for 712 damage.)

Density: Light - yellowtile.png 5
Vision reduces his density, becoming intangible. Creates a Yellow Density: Light 4-turn Countdown tile. While this tile is on the board, Vision takes 128 less damage and his Red power becomes Light Disruption. Removes any existing Density: Heavy tile.
Level 2: Reduces damage to Vision by 154.
Level 3: Reduces damage to Vision by 179.
Level 4: Reduces damage to Vision by 230.
Level 5: Reduces damage to Vision by 333.

MAX: Vision reduces his density, becoming intangible. Creates a Yellow Density: Light 4-turn Countdown tile. While this tile is on the board, Vision takes 1040 less damage and his Red power becomes Light Disruption. Removes any existing Density: Heavy tile.
    (Old Values: Density: Light - 5 AP Vision reduces his density, becoming intangible. Creates a Density: Light Yellow 4-turn Countdown Tile. While this tile is on the board, Vision reduces damage to himself by 88 and his Red power becomes Light Disruption. Destroys any existing Density tile. Level 2: Reduces damage to Vision by 106. Level 3: Reduces damage to Vision by 123. Level 4: Reduces damage to Vision by 158. Level 5: Reduces damage to Vision by 229.)


*Note: At this time there is no plan to offer an increased sell-back rate for Vision after the updates are live.
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Comments

  • Der_LexDer_Lex Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,035 Chairperson of the Boards
    The only word I can think of for these changes is 'meh'. It won't make him more powerful or useable to any significant degree.
  • stochasticismstochasticism Posts: 1,181 Chairperson of the Boards
    As Meatloaf said, 2/3 ain't bad.
  • PylgrimPylgrim Posts: 2,296 Chairperson of the Boards
    Eh, the lack of an interesting update for his yellow doesn't take from the fact that his already strong blue and red (after blue) became stronger.

    David, can you tell us whether there are more 3* upgrades planned after these three?
  • Moon RoachMoon Roach Posts: 2,863 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2016
    As I read it, adding light when there's already a heavy countdown removes the heavy countdown. How does that fit in with the fortified tile change already mentioned where countdowns aren't removed, they just revert to normal?

    :edit: Missed this bit: "We tweaked his AI to avoid casting his Density abilities if the same one was on the board"

    So the following is just stupid.
    And adding light when there's already a light countdown adds a second light countdown? Interesting.

    I still wonder why the conflict with the upcoming change for fortified tiles.
  • udonomefooudonomefoo Posts: 1,630 Chairperson of the Boards
    It's an improvement, it will make him more useful when boosted for a pve, but there are much better redflag.pngyellowflag.pngblueflag.png characters. His yellow is just a wasted power for me since I don't value or fear protects at all. They're like mosquitos, slightly annoying, but not enough to stop me from getting drunk in the woods.

    If he was a different color combo like purpleflag.pngyellowflag.pngblackflag.png he might find more use for me.
  • CrowlCrowl Posts: 1,507 Chairperson of the Boards
    Shame that after the decent work on QS and the very good work on IM40 we get this lacklustre change to the Vision, the density powers didn't need to be increased so much as having them apply even when he isn't tanking that colour as in the era of champions you can't rely on him to be tanking except when he is boosted.
  • fmftintfmftint Posts: 3,644 Chairperson of the Boards
    So the same with more damage output/reduction
  • wymtimewymtime Posts: 3,163 Chairperson of the Boards
    So with Vision his issue was you needed him to tank 3 plus colors for his blue to be effective and if he is not tanking it is only to set up his red. If his blue did damage whenever a red, blue, or yellow was matched that would be much better even at the old damage level. If he could own attack tiles again that would be sweet. As it is I don't see him as that much better. He does a little more damage and his damage was not his issue
  • DayvDayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
    Crowl wrote:
    Shame that after the decent work on QS and the very good work on IM40 we get this lacklustre change to the Vision, the density powers didn't need to be increased so much as having them apply even when he isn't tanking that colour as in the era of champions you can't rely on him to be tanking except when he is boosted.
    Yeah, I figured it would be more like Reed's Imaginaut where Reed doesn't have to own the match for it to take effect. Yellow I would have changed more thoroughly, maybe make the tile spit out a protect tile every turn so the whole team can similarly benefit from it.

    Vision is weirdly designed in a way that actually makes him more powerful solo or with weaker allies so that he's out front more often.

    This is like the buff to 4* Sam Wilson (Captain America). A numbers tweak only.
  • David [Hi-Fi] MooreDavid [Hi-Fi] Moore Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,872 Site Admin
    Pylgrim wrote:
    David, can you tell us whether there are more 3* upgrades planned after these three?

    I haven't heard any specifics for additional updates yet. So, as of today, nothing imminent after Vision that's ready to report. I'll definitely update if and when I have additional news.
  • Buret0Buret0 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,591
    edited February 2016
    Light Disruption and his yellow in general is still pretty weak. A scenario specific time when Vision is going to tank, the enemy has at least 2 special tiles, and where you have the requisite 10 redtile.png AP and doing Heavy Strike isn't your better option are going to be quite rare.

    He's still a must 5/5/3 and the AI is still going to dance between using his blue and yellow without any thought given to how that AP could be better served. In fact, I used to say that a 5/5/0 Vision would better serve you because the AI won't waste your yellow AP and won't destroy your density heavy tile when you need it for his best abilities.

    Vision's best feature was always his blue CD tile powering up attack tiles. His yellow was a temporary protect tile that only protected Vision. It needs to be 1.75 times stronger than the blue before it is ever going to be useful.
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  • RaisseRaisse Age Unconfirmed Posts: 18 Just Dropped In
    DayvBang wrote:
    Crowl wrote:
    Shame that after the decent work on QS and the very good work on IM40 we get this lacklustre change to the Vision, the density powers didn't need to be increased so much as having them apply even when he isn't tanking that colour as in the era of champions you can't rely on him to be tanking except when he is boosted.
    Yeah, I figured it would be more like Reed's Imaginaut where Reed doesn't have to own the match for it to take effect. Yellow I would have changed more thoroughly, maybe make the tile spit out a protect tile every turn so the whole team can similarly benefit from it.

    Vision is weirdly designed in a way that actually makes him more powerful solo or with weaker allies so that he's out front more often.

    This is like the buff to 4* Sam Wilson (Captain America). A numbers tweak only.

    The ability to stack multiple light or heavy tiles seems to be pretty powerful to me. Especially for wave nodes where you can attack up quite a bit of red/blue, then blast away with extreme density AoE.
  • Arimis ThornArimis Thorn Age Unconfirmed Posts: 540 Critical Contributor
    Oh good! I don't need to put any ISO into him.
  • Buret0Buret0 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,591
    Raisse wrote:
    The ability to stack multiple light or heavy tiles seems to be pretty powerful to me. Especially for wave nodes where you can attack up quite a bit of red/blue, then blast away with extreme density AoE.

    ???

    I don't see anything in here that says that multiple density tiles increases the effect. In fact, I read that the AI won't double-tap a density tile.

    Perhaps you are reading the "Light Disruption - Converts up to 2 enemy Strike or Protect tiles to basic tiles. Deals 2481 damage per tile." as meaning per density tile, but it actually referring to the number of tiles you are destroying 1 or 2.
  • Buret0Buret0 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,591
    Oh good! I don't need to put any ISO into him.

    Yeah, mine was 5/5/0 level 140 and I sold him for champion ISO back before the changes were announced. I'm not nearly as sad he's been replaced with a level 40 2/0/1 Vision, since I wouldn't ever see a use for him as designed.
  • A Max'd 5 yellow Light is 1000 points of protect damageish.

    How strong would it have to be, in pure numbers, for you to consider it?

    I mean the idea of having a protect power be strong enough to actually stop some heavy nukes feels like it'd be pretty nice, since all Protect mechanics seem to do so far is "stop match damage" usually, and "MAYBE counter Strikes or Attacks if needed"

    A Protect strong enough to make a nuke fizzle would be pretty nice.
  • udonomefooudonomefoo Posts: 1,630 Chairperson of the Boards
    Raisse wrote:
    DayvBang wrote:
    Crowl wrote:
    Shame that after the decent work on QS and the very good work on IM40 we get this lacklustre change to the Vision, the density powers didn't need to be increased so much as having them apply even when he isn't tanking that colour as in the era of champions you can't rely on him to be tanking except when he is boosted.
    Yeah, I figured it would be more like Reed's Imaginaut where Reed doesn't have to own the match for it to take effect. Yellow I would have changed more thoroughly, maybe make the tile spit out a protect tile every turn so the whole team can similarly benefit from it.

    Vision is weirdly designed in a way that actually makes him more powerful solo or with weaker allies so that he's out front more often.

    This is like the buff to 4* Sam Wilson (Captain America). A numbers tweak only.

    The ability to stack multiple light or heavy tiles seems to be pretty powerful to me. Especially for wave nodes where you can attack up quite a bit of red/blue, then blast away with extreme density AoE.

    Unless I'm misunderstanding you I think you're making assumptions that aren't there. There has been no precedent set for stacking effects on countdown tiles. 4cyc's don't stack, reed's don't stack etc.
  • NellysonNellyson Posts: 354 Mover and Shaker
    As Meatloaf said, 2/3 ain't bad.

    Hahahaha...so true! They really just needed to completely change his yellowtile.png ability. I'm fine with redtile.png and bluetile.png but holy hell does the yellow just suck majorly! Classic D3 to get the first two fixed up properly to get your hopes up so they can more easily disappoint you. However, because they did such a great job on icon_quicksilver.png and icon_ironman.png 40, I'm happy overall. Shame icon_vision.png has to suck forever, but oh well. He and Chulk can be play friends.
  • RaisseRaisse Age Unconfirmed Posts: 18 Just Dropped In
    udonomefoo wrote:
    Raisse wrote:
    DayvBang wrote:
    Crowl wrote:
    Shame that after the decent work on QS and the very good work on IM40 we get this lacklustre change to the Vision, the density powers didn't need to be increased so much as having them apply even when he isn't tanking that colour as in the era of champions you can't rely on him to be tanking except when he is boosted.
    Yeah, I figured it would be more like Reed's Imaginaut where Reed doesn't have to own the match for it to take effect. Yellow I would have changed more thoroughly, maybe make the tile spit out a protect tile every turn so the whole team can similarly benefit from it.

    Vision is weirdly designed in a way that actually makes him more powerful solo or with weaker allies so that he's out front more often.

    This is like the buff to 4* Sam Wilson (Captain America). A numbers tweak only.

    The ability to stack multiple light or heavy tiles seems to be pretty powerful to me. Especially for wave nodes where you can attack up quite a bit of red/blue, then blast away with extreme density AoE.

    Unless I'm misunderstanding you I think you're making assumptions that aren't there. There has been no precedent set for stacking effects on countdown tiles. 4cyc's don't stack, reed's don't stack etc.

    You may be correct, but the wording for both of those characters' countdown tile abilities specify "when one of these tiles is present..." while the text for Vision's tile says "while this tile". Coupled with the fact that creating a second density: heavy tile no longer destroys the first, I expected both tiles to do what they say.
  • TLCstormzTLCstormz Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,668
    edited February 2016
    Man. I thought they were actually going to be on a roll........
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