Vision (Android Avenger) Updates Coming Soon

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Comments

  • Buret0Buret0 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,591
    colwag wrote:
    A Max'd 5 yellow Light is 1000 points of protect damageish.

    How strong would it have to be, in pure numbers, for you to consider it?

    I mean the idea of having a protect power be strong enough to actually stop some heavy nukes feels like it'd be pretty nice, since all Protect mechanics seem to do so far is "stop match damage" usually, and "MAYBE counter Strikes or Attacks if needed"

    A Protect strong enough to make a nuke fizzle would be pretty nice.

    Especially since the yellow/red combination is so fickle. Sure, if you are playing against OML or Phoenix, you might want to nullify some of those heavy damage strikes, but if you are bringing a Vision to an OML fight, you are going to have a bad time.

    Level 166 Vision Yellow would need to reduce damage by at least 1,750 before I would consider it, because boosted it would still only be like 2,800 with the 3* boosted ability nerfs.
  • babinrobabinro Posts: 771 Critical Contributor
    This is a really disappointing change.

    The main problem with Vision is his need to tank colours. This concept was already sketchy when Hulk and Captain Marvel came out. Now we have boosted weekly characters, 4* and 5* tier play as well as championing all acting against a characters ability to tank.

    The last time Vision was featured in pvp his blue and red were dealing impressive damage. The buffs to damage are a nice perk but they weren't even necessary in my opinion. Vision was already reasonably fast and worked great with characters who trigger off skill activators.

    I understand that it doesn't match the lore of the character but his blue really needed to universally buff team damage. His yellow could act like Luke Cages Skill or even force the character front and center like Colossus. On top of that the yellow demanding a more substantial buff since it was a dump skill no one was considering. These changes do nothing to change that.

    What we have now is a character whose just as difficult to fit into a team as he's ever been and his new found damage values in now way justify the hoops you need to go through to make him shine.

    These changes make Vision a highly niche character designed to be played by 2* transitioners and sometimes used by 3* players when the stars align.

    Characters like Psylocke and Punisher can potentially be fixed by simply buffing damage values. Visions core problems didn't lie with his damage output.
  • Buret0Buret0 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,591
    babinro wrote:
    This is a really disappointing change.

    The main problem with Vision is his need to tank colours. This concept was already sketchy when he Hulk and Captain Marvel came out. Now we have boosted weekly characters, 4* and 5* tier play as well as championing all acting against a characters ability to tank.

    The last time Vision was featured in pvp his blue and red were dealing impressive damage. The buffs to damage are a nice perk but they weren't even necessary in my opinion. Vision was already reasonably fast and worked great with characters who trigger off skill activators.

    I understand that it doesn't match the lore of the character but his blue really needed to universally buff team damage. His yellow could act like Luke Cages Skill or even force the character front and center like Colossus. On top of that the yellow demanding a more substantial buff since it was a dump skill no one was considering. These changes do nothing to change that.

    What we have now is a character whose just as difficult to fit into a team as he's ever been and his new found damage values in now way justify the hoops you need to go through to make him shine.

    These changes make Vision a highly niche character designed to be played by 2* transitioners and sometimes used by 3* players when the stars align.

    Characters like Psylocke and Punisher can potentially be fixed by simply buffing damage values. Visions core problems didn't lie with his damage output.

    Very well said, though remember, with the 3* boosted damage nerf and his inability to boost attack tiles with his DH tile (I haven't tested to determine this, but it was quoted a couple of times in this topic) he's actually going to be doing significantly less damage than he was. Vision needs big time strike tile help, like with OML to make his tank damage worthwhile, however, if OML is out Vision is only tanking blue. As you said, anything done to fix this character should have considered reworking how his tiles worked.
  • jackstar0jackstar0 Posts: 1,181 Chairperson of the Boards
    colwag wrote:
    A Protect strong enough to make a nuke fizzle would be pretty nice.

    I expect a Kitty Pryde power with a team invisibility effect (with a countdown) at some point.

    Or at least I hope...
  • TatercatTatercat Age Unconfirmed Posts: 930 Critical Contributor
    The biggest issue for me on his yellow and light disruption, is the limit of switching just two special tiles, even when maxed. If at 5 yellow covers , he converted ALL enemy strike and protect tiles to basics, then THAT would be something to consider. Right now the two tile limit just makes you wonder why they bothered.
  • Dark NovaDark Nova Posts: 50 Match Maker
    This tweak now makes Vision less useful! His problem is not damage delivered, it's the mechnic at fault. His yellow and blue are practically redundant on their own because he rarely tanks those colours, but at least there was a slight reprieve in that you could cast them in succession and get a tiny amount of board shake. Now you can't even do that - you have to wait for one tile to expire before casting another! So now you can describe him as having only red as a power with yellow/blue just changing what the (expensive) red does. This poor guy is never going to get used!

    The tweak should have been that casting Heavy Density initially inflicted some small AOE damage (like an earth tremor) and casting Light Density would initially overwrite an existing enemy strike, attack or defence tile if one was on the board. At least that would give the power some small utility!
  • For some reason, the idea of him being a great character for a 2->3 transistioner seems pretty nice.

    Like, he is the one character you have at 120 when you have a bunch of 94s.

    He has a niche use, at least.And he stomps at it.
  • Dragon_NexusDragon_Nexus Posts: 3,690 Chairperson of the Boards
    W-wait...that's it!? A few extra digits to his abilities?

    So what? The 2* and 3* boost nerf just completely counteracts all of that anyway.
    Why even announce he was getting an update if virtually nothing has changed about him?
  • Monged4lifeMonged4life Age Unconfirmed Posts: 420
    I feel he would be good as an enemy for someone's 4* DDQ, but otherwise he still has no place on any team not built around him... And he's still nowhere near good enough to build a team around him.
  • Buret0Buret0 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,591
    Even choo-choo-choosing where the CD goes would have been an improvement.
  • ErikPeterErikPeter Posts: 712 Critical Contributor
    Yeah... 5 Blue AP for easily do 3k+ damage, 6k+ if you get good a reasonable cascade or redtile.pngyellowtile.pngbluetile.pngtutile.png options... Why are people complaining? He doesn't team with HB? Even when he tanks only 2 colors, unless it gets matched away, right away, or the board is littered with greentile.pngpurpletile.pngblacktile.png , it's still like 600+ damage per AP.

    When he's powered up and leading 166s (KK, IF) these numbers are insane. 5AP, 5-10k damage. By all means, keep it on the down low so the devs don't reconsider.

    He's a really smart early Champ for transitioners. I'll probably give him champ priority as well.

    eta: His yellow power, yeeah. Situational, and since you're not likely to have more than 3 ranks, even less effective than it could be. Especially bad since swapping densities won't destroy the tile anymore (wait... who exactly will team Vision with Goblin anyway??)... every so often there was a decent chance for some board shake. (Which also was a positive aspect of his wasting AP on defense, firing Yellow while Blue was still on the table.) Luckily Blue + Red are good enough to make up for it.
  • Redrobot30Redrobot30 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 348 Mover and Shaker
    So I saved my Iso in anticipation of the updates to Vision just to see if I wanted to actually Champion him or not. Guess my undercarded 4*s are getting some love.
  • SandwichboySandwichboy Age Unconfirmed Posts: 193 Tile Toppler
    Dark Nova wrote:
    This tweak now makes Vision less useful! His problem is not damage delivered, it's the mechnic at fault. His yellow and blue are practically redundant on their own because he rarely tanks those colours, but at least there was a slight reprieve in that you could cast them in succession and get a tiny amount of board shake. Now you can't even do that - you have to wait for one tile to expire before casting another! So now you can describe him as having only red as a power with yellow/blue just changing what the (expensive) red does. This poor guy is never going to get used!

    The tweak should have been that casting Heavy Density initially inflicted some small AOE damage (like an earth tremor) and casting Light Density would initially overwrite an existing enemy strike, attack or defence tile if one was on the board. At least that would give the power some small utility!

    THIS. Seriously, the AI is always going to cast the tinykitty out of his density powers over anything else in those colours because of how cheap they are, just make a second cast DO SOMETHING like it does for Ant Man. IM40s update made him instantly relevant for the first time ever. This is just tweaking some numbers on flawed mechanics, and will do nothing for his viability.
  • scotteescottee Posts: 1,569 Chairperson of the Boards
    If his yellow included making him always be in front (like Colossus), it'd make him interesting. At least he could shield Hood/Loki.

    As is, he's an improvement, but not enough of an improvement.
  • cardoorcardoor Posts: 185 Tile Toppler
    Dark Nova wrote:
    ... Now you can't even do that - you have to wait for one tile to expire before casting another! ...

    I read that as the AI (defense in PVP) will not cast them over each other, but players can cast them at anytime they have the AP.
  • zodiac339zodiac339 Posts: 1,927 Chairperson of the Boards
    jackstar0 wrote:
    colwag wrote:
    A Protect strong enough to make a nuke fizzle would be pretty nice.

    I expect a Kitty Pryde power with a team invisibility effect (with a countdown) at some point.

    Or at least I hope...
    Say, are you referring to the character concept I wrote in Concepts and Designs?
  • DayvDayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
    Raisse wrote:
    Coupled with the fact that creating a second density: heavy tile no longer destroys the first, I expected both tiles to do what they say.
    It no longer destroys the first, but it converts it to a basic tile instead. All five changed powers were changed in this exact way. You can't stack these, even for redundancy.
  • RaffoonRaffoon Age Unconfirmed Posts: 884
    Meh. Disappointing. Same flawed concept, slightly higher numbers.

    Still won't be using him on any kind of regular basis.

    The IM and QS reworks were good, though.
  • ClydeFrog76ClydeFrog76 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,350 Chairperson of the Boards
    Finally, the changes everyone's been clamouring for!

    ...

    *sigh*
  • BlackBoltRocksBlackBoltRocks Posts: 2,288 Chairperson of the Boards
    Why couldn't his Yellow get rid of Attack and Countdown tiles as well? Heck, Thorrina's Yellow does that at 5 covers

    Guess I'll be saving Iso to champ 3* Torch and 3* Bullseye instead
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