*** Vision (Android Avenger) ***

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  • OnesOwnGriefOnesOwnGrief Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    Nobody has bothered to bring this up but he is literally an AI with the potential to be one of the worst characters playable by the AI or gamed. Light Density changes his Red to effect tiles. Like DDs Purple and She-Hulk's Blue, this may have the problem of only being usable if there are tiles to destroy. That's a huge flaw. You could let him get Light Density and then watch as his Red just sits there for 4 turns doing nothing. Very little reason to match the tile if it only affects him.
  • wymtimewymtime Posts: 3,651 Chairperson of the Boards
    Arondite wrote:
    Does Heavy Strike destroy the Density Tile? If not, I think it's a little silly to include the 5 Blue in the casting cost of the ability.

    Yes, the Density Tile has it's own cost, but it has it's own benefits as well. The 5 Blue should be compared and weighed against that, not the Red. If you're going to cost Heavy Strike at 15 and divide the damage by 15, I think it's also important to make a "*" at the end to note that you're also doing 723 extra damage on any of Vision's matches.

    That's just me, I guess.
    I would say it is more comparable to Beasts blue to green combo. When Beast has a blue tile on the board for 9AP he does decent AOE damage plus board shake. If you don't have his blue tile out his green is horrible. Beasts blue has its own merit with special tile creation, but if you don't fire it first his other powers are really bad.
    For Vision his red is not as bad as Beasts Green without the special tile, but it is not nearly as good. You need to account for the extra 5AP, but like beast I think of it more like 12 AP of one color. Becuase it is split between 2 colors it should be easier to collect 5 blue in the time it takes get 10 red compared to trying to get 15 red. i would still consider that blue in th AP generation becuase if that CD is matched before you can fire, like Beast you miss out on a lot of extra damage.
  • dkffivdkffiv Posts: 1,036 Chairperson of the Boards
    wymtime wrote:
    Arondite wrote:
    Does Heavy Strike destroy the Density Tile? If not, I think it's a little silly to include the 5 Blue in the casting cost of the ability.

    Yes, the Density Tile has it's own cost, but it has it's own benefits as well. The 5 Blue should be compared and weighed against that, not the Red. If you're going to cost Heavy Strike at 15 and divide the damage by 15, I think it's also important to make a "*" at the end to note that you're also doing 723 extra damage on any of Vision's matches.

    That's just me, I guess.
    I would say it is more comparable to Beasts blue to green combo. When Beast has a blue tile on the board for 9AP he does decent AOE damage plus board shake. If you don't have his blue tile out his green is horrible. Beasts blue has its own merit with special tile creation, but if you don't fire it first his other powers are really bad.
    For Vision his red is not as bad as Beasts Green without the special tile, but it is not nearly as good. You need to account for the extra 5AP, but like beast I think of it more like 12 AP of one color. Becuase it is split between 2 colors it should be easier to collect 5 blue in the time it takes get 10 red compared to trying to get 15 red. i would still consider that blue in th AP generation becuase if that CD is matched before you can fire, like Beast you miss out on a lot of extra damage.

    I don't think it can be compared to Beast at all. For Beast there's almost no reason not to fire off blue immediately. It only takes 1 turn to go off and once its off there are now blue special tiles all over the board. If Beast's green only worked off blue CD tiles then maybe. Unless you have 10 blue saved up and no other blue user I would only use Vision's blue if you have red ready.
  • notamutantnotamutant Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    https://youtu.be/vsCeT4YmaCc

    My video analysis is up now. Gameplay videos will follow soon. I think I covered everything. Let me know if you think I missed anything. I couldn't really come up with good teams.
  • notamutant wrote:


    My video analysis is up now. Gameplay videos will follow soon. I think I covered everything. Let me know if you think I missed anything. I couldn't really come up with good teams.
    I think the only way to use him is with lvl1 characters, versus goons/ultron. Though then you're really using 5 ap for ~1k a turn, and if you add iron fist powers I'm pretty positive he starts averaging way more than that really quickly with no companion restrictions.

    So...yeah. You can kill his cheap garbage tiles with kp I guess? I'm stumped
  • wymtimewymtime Posts: 3,651 Chairperson of the Boards
    notamutant wrote:


    My video analysis is up now. Gameplay videos will follow soon. I think I covered everything. Let me know if you think I missed anything. I couldn't really come up with good teams.
    In your description of red AOE abilities you forgot She Hulk. It is not conditional and give good board shake, but does not do as much damage for 9 AP.
    For partners with him I would say Storm, Captain Marvel, Xforce, Lthor, LCage would all work well with him. Storm and Marvel could accelerate AP, Cage drags out the fight, and Xforce does enough board shake to cause cascades. Lthor is yellow, green and vision would be blue red.

    Overall I agree that he is lower tier with really only 1 good ability that is conditional, that the AI will play poorly.
  • notamutantnotamutant Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    wymtime wrote:
    notamutant wrote:


    My video analysis is up now. Gameplay videos will follow soon. I think I covered everything. Let me know if you think I missed anything. I couldn't really come up with good teams.
    In your description of red AOE abilities you forgot She Hulk. It is not conditional and give good board shake, but does not do as much damage for 9 AP.
    For partners with him I would say Storm, Captain Marvel, Xforce, Lthor, LCage would all work well with him. Storm and Marvel could accelerate AP, Cage drags out the fight, and Xforce does enough board shake to cause cascades. Lthor is yellow, green and vision would be blue red.

    Overall I agree that he is lower tier with really only 1 good ability that is conditional, that the AI will play poorly.

    Oops, can't believe I forgot the best red AoE icon_redface.gif

    Storm in general sucks though, and you wouldn't get a full rainbow, and her yellow would tank for Vision, so I wouldn't use her with Vision. Captain Marvel's red and yellow would tank for Vision, so also no good. XForce can't use his green or you might destroy Vision's tile, so board shake in general is bad with Vision. Lthor red and yellow would tank for Vision, so again no good. Cage yellow would tank for Vision, red wouldn't as long as you placed them correctly. It really depends on how you would actually use him, but to maximize his density tiles, you really can't have anyone that tanks any of his colors, so that would rule all of these guys out. You could use board shake, but timing would have to be perfect.
  • wymtimewymtime Posts: 3,651 Chairperson of the Boards
    notamutant wrote:
    wymtime wrote:
    notamutant wrote:


    My video analysis is up now. Gameplay videos will follow soon. I think I covered everything. Let me know if you think I missed anything. I couldn't really come up with good teams.
    In your description of red AOE abilities you forgot She Hulk. It is not conditional and give good board shake, but does not do as much damage for 9 AP.
    For partners with him I would say Storm, Captain Marvel, Xforce, Lthor, LCage would all work well with him. Storm and Marvel could accelerate AP, Cage drags out the fight, and Xforce does enough board shake to cause cascades. Lthor is yellow, green and vision would be blue red.

    Overall I agree that he is lower tier with really only 1 good ability that is conditional, that the AI will play poorly.

    Oops, can't believe I forgot the best red AoE icon_redface.gif

    Storm in general sucks though, and you wouldn't get a full rainbow, and her yellow would tank for Vision, so I wouldn't use her with Vision. Captain Marvel's red and yellow would tank for Vision, so also no good. XForce can't use his green or you might destroy Vision's tile, so board shake in general is bad with Vision. Lthor red and yellow would tank for Vision, so again no good. Cage yellow would tank for Vision, red wouldn't as long as you placed them correctly. It really depends on how you would actually use him, but to maximize his density tiles, you really can't have anyone that tanks any of his colors, so that would rule all of these guys out. You could use board shake, but timing would have to be perfect.
    You are looking at him as actually using blue to its max, while I am looking to bing him along as a red AOE damage dealer. If you think of him this way, with blue match damage being a bonus more doors open for him. At his health being middle of the pack, do you really want him tanking that many colors the characters I listed have AP generation or board shake to generate AP so you can generate the 15 AP to fire his red. As you said if don't fire his red right after blue it might be matched. If you want you can bring IM40 to stun himself as well so you can tank colors, yet he still hides most of the match.
  • It seems to me you can sort of use him like Patch where you try to have a lot of board shake moves ready before you do Berserker Rage assuming you don't have something that can negate it (like Trickery) and just hope the strike tile is enough to win the game outright, though since it only buffs his damage and not your teams you got to use moves that lead to cascades instead of just any damaging moves. Using his +damage mode before making a match 5 might be cool as a party trick.
  • dkffivdkffiv Posts: 1,036 Chairperson of the Boards
    The best team I could come up with is Vision Elektra Patch (SW Blade Vision did not work very well since you want to leave red of the board for Blade) and its not that great. Yellow sorta negates almost 2 of Patch's tiles but its not really fast or all that effective. Yellow should be a ridiculous amount of protection considering it only lasts at most 4 turns (I'd like to see 1k at 3 covers, 2k at 5).

    He's just really frustrating to play. His red is decent but not good enough to build a team around and his other abilities suck. Changing density does not generate AP or deal damage for the tile destroyed btw.
  • orionpeaceorionpeace Posts: 343 Mover and Shaker
    Is it just me or is Falcon Vision's nemesis in this game.

    And if the mechanic of a character can be so easily circumvented...well, he just sucks.
  • atomzedatomzed Posts: 1,611 Chairperson of the Boards
    orionpeace wrote:
    Is it just me or is Falcon Vision's nemesis in this game.

    And if the mechanic of a character can be so easily circumvented...well, he just sucks.

    Not that I disagree with you that vision sucks, but falcon is kinda a nemesis for characters who depends on a single CD tile like Lcap.
  • I think the concept is good but the result is bad.. He's awesome in the comics and movie.. and unfortunately he's far from awesome on this game. It's too bad really.
  • Arimis_ThornArimis_Thorn Posts: 541 Critical Contributor
    Now that I've finally had a chance to play with a fully covered Vision in PVE, wow yeah just terrible.

    I really wanted to be wrong and maybe I just got bad boards, but given that his buffs from the Yellow and Blue tiles only affect him, there's ZERO reason to have them out until you have 10 red. And as the video points out, that basically makes his red a 15 cost power and there are just better options.
  • xdoggxdogg Posts: 327 Mover and Shaker
    Anyone know what the Easter Egg when using Vision and Scarlet Witch together is? I've tried but I can't figure it out.
  • I don't have vision yet. But playing him in the loaner node was really fun to me. That node went really quickly both times I've done it and I've enjoyed it. Characters a lot of fun to play. Viable I don't know whether he is or isn't but I don't really care since he's fun to play and I like the character.
  • SoulReaper wrote:
    I think the concept is good but the result is bad.. He's awesome in the comics and movie.. and unfortunately he's far from awesome on this game. It's too bad really.
    Look at Hulkbuster's "support" moves vs Vision's "support" moves. He's horrendous.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    His not bad. The loaner did decent damage but his red is too expensive to really have him do anything. His blue is spectacular though. Sure you only get the bonus dmg matching your own colors but wow hit hits hard, it's essential a one man gamora or patch bonus. Yellow....meh, however with Patch he can absorb most match dmg from the enemy strike tiles. Basically if you have a blue primary or red secondary user you need someone to tank for, he's your guy. (Maybe he wants to suck up to Wanda's daddy)

    To me only really one option 5/5/3, although I could see arguments for 5/3/5 and have him completely utility
  • I'm not sure if I'm missing something here, but when using Vision in the match where he's fully covered, I lay down a blue tile, and then make a blue match, and there's no damage increase. The way I'm reading the power is that every time he attacks he should be doing X more damage (something like 700 in that match). But that doesn't seem to be happening from what I can tell. Either it's a bug, or I'm an idiot, or I'm reading the power wrong. As it stands Blue by itself seems to be completely useless.

    Anyone else have this experience or can clarify for me?
  • notamutantnotamutant Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    I'm not sure if I'm missing something here, but when using Vision in the match where he's fully covered, I lay down a blue tile, and then make a blue match, and there's no damage increase. The way I'm reading the power is that every time he attacks he should be doing X more damage (something like 700 in that match). But that doesn't seem to be happening from what I can tell. Either it's a bug, or I'm an idiot, or I'm reading the power wrong. As it stands Blue by itself seems to be completely useless.

    Anyone else have this experience or can clarify for me?

    Are you using another blue user that has higher blue match damage? If so, then you won't activate Vision's blue power on a match. That is why you are so limited in partners with him, to maximize his blue, you have very few characters without conflicting powers.
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