Phaserhawk wrote: Well 5 purple seems mandatory after seeing the stats, you need level 4 just to make it be placeable
CrookedKnight wrote: Phaserhawk wrote: Well 5 purple seems mandatory after seeing the stats, you need level 4 just to make it be placeable I don't know why the description on his purple seems to be giving so many people a hard time. Level 1-3: You can place the countdown on a tile of your choice, except it can't target existing countdowns. Strike/attack/protect/web/team-up tiles are fair game. Level 4-5: Can target any tile, just like Cap's shield throws at level 5.
Phaserhawk wrote: While I agree 3/5/5 makes him a strong support, not giving him any damage makes him a strong liability. How many times in a match do you lose your main damage dealer and are stuck with supports?
Scoregasms wrote: They've been improving lately with CD Tile users and usability (i.e. DD), seems odd they wouldn't incorporate something for a 4* who solely uses CD Tiles to be effective. Even X-Force Recovery CD Tile does damage if matched and that's just a heal. Would it be too overpowered if he did the following: Purple - 1/3 Damage if Matched and moves to a new location Yellow - Grants 2P if Matched for colors based on Covers Red - Steals 2AP if Matched for colors based on Covers and does 1/3 Damage The Grants and Steals amount would also be based on how many covers you have (basically 1 for each early on). I mean, if he's just gonna drop CD Tiles, least this dude could do is auto-generate AP, lol. Sorry, not meaning to derail this thread from his optimal build discussion currently being discussed. Just got Starlord myself from the PVE and already I'm thinking "Why did I kill myself for this, hopefully he's more usable then Elektra has been".
NorthernPolarity wrote: Scoregasms wrote: They've been improving lately with CD Tile users and usability (i.e. DD), seems odd they wouldn't incorporate something for a 4* who solely uses CD Tiles to be effective. Even X-Force Recovery CD Tile does damage if matched and that's just a heal. Would it be too overpowered if he did the following: Purple - 1/3 Damage if Matched and moves to a new location Yellow - Grants 2P if Matched for colors based on Covers Red - Steals 2AP if Matched for colors based on Covers and does 1/3 Damage The Grants and Steals amount would also be based on how many covers you have (basically 1 for each early on). I mean, if he's just gonna drop CD Tiles, least this dude could do is auto-generate AP, lol. Sorry, not meaning to derail this thread from his optimal build discussion currently being discussed. Just got Starlord myself from the PVE and already I'm thinking "Why did I kill myself for this, hopefully he's more usable then Elektra has been". I think the 7k damage on red for 8 ap (i mean come on, thats almost like 50% more damage than X-Force) and what, 8k damage for 10 AP? is that compensation that you're asking for.
Phaserhawk wrote: While I agree 3/5/5 makes him a strong support, not giving him any damage makes him a strong liability. How many times in a match do you lose your main damage dealer and are stuck with supports? And having misread purple, allowing him to overwrite any tile is sweet. Here's my take. Purple--known Yellow--known/random Red--Random what I mean by this is that I know what will happen with Purple, I know I can place it and if Captain America is any indicator, I can pretty much guarentee that damage going off. like I said what I don't know is how much purple will do. Does that 4k to target already include the AoE damage? yellow is known once you place it and that for that turn you can guaretee reduced costs, after that though, it is all unknown. red is all random, random where it goes, random if damage happens. So from a sure thing build I would go 5/5/3 and rereading purple it says 2504 plus 731 which means it works like Thor, so he will do 6424 to target and 1451 to the other 2, I'll take that. That's better than Fury' purple Max utility-- 3/5/5 Max Damage --5/3/5 Most consistent build--5/5/3 Now, let's say we are going for a full 4* roster. Well you have 4hor/X-Force then it comes down to Fury and Starlord. Fury's blue won't get used, but his other 2 potentially can. Starlord, his red won't get used, but his other 2 potentially can. I would opt for Starlord becaue he can accelerate X-Force and 4hor into their skills, where as Fury just sits there, not to mention he tanks yellow and blue and with his low hitpoints this isn't ideal, with Starlord, 4hor will tank yellow and red for him so he can remain hidden. 2nd example. In PvP i opt to run 4hor and X-Force seperately to allow for a longer sustainged PvP push. Again, assuming I want to run only 4* in the other spot. 4hor/Starlord--I want Starlord 5/5/3, 1 his yellow can be very useful, 2 his red would block a red tile from possibly getting charged. X-Force/Starlord--yellow only overlap so build won't matter, however with purple I can at least place the tile in a corner and incease the likelyhood of survival vs. a random red so odds favor a 5/5/3 build, plus if facing off againsnt any characters, and I Surgical Stirke, Blackwidow, Daredevil, Deadpool, Loki, Mystique are the featured PvP's where surgical striking will destroy purple, vs. Marvel, Torch, IM40, Psylocke, Sentry, Thor. While close, odds still say I'm better off 5/5/3 With X-Force you obviously cannot guarentee anything on the board, so using Starlord's red seems like a waste of AP, where as at least Starlord's yellow can drop X-Force into a 2 match ability without boosts, at that point, if it gets blown up, I don't care. We all know that defense is a farce, it's all about speed and high damage, and that's what a 5/5/3 Starlord would give you, speed in yellow, and damage in purple. I'm sure Phantron could factor in the factor of adding 1 AP to skills vs. 2 AP. Basically Skills that cost 5AP, 8AP, 11AP are the ones that get bumped up into another match bracket. which of top tier characters, would effect X-Force, Blade, Captain America, Daken, C.Mags, Thor, so you could argue that point, but I for one would rather be trying to speed myself up vs slowing the other guy down. Yes red can do some huge damage but it's also quickly countered by another Starlord because red doesn't effect purple, so I pop my purple and destroy your red tile. That's my $0.02 but I think 5/5/3 is faster and more playable with X-Force and 4hor. Not to mention if my goal is to make other guys less spammy on the other team, I need look no farther than Hood or Loki as they do that job far better than Starlord can, nothing delays better than stealing AP.
gamar wrote: If his purple at 5 does 6.5k to the primary target and not 5k, 535 all the way. Otherwise it's a tough choice between 535 and 445.
onimus wrote: Phaserhawk wrote: While I agree 3/5/5 makes him a strong support, not giving him any damage makes him a strong liability. How many times in a match do you lose your main damage dealer and are stuck with supports? And having misread purple, allowing him to overwrite any tile is sweet. Here's my take. Purple--known Yellow--known/random Red--Random what I mean by this is that I know what will happen with Purple, I know I can place it and if Captain America is any indicator, I can pretty much guarentee that damage going off. like I said what I don't know is how much purple will do. Does that 4k to target already include the AoE damage? yellow is known once you place it and that for that turn you can guaretee reduced costs, after that though, it is all unknown. red is all random, random where it goes, random if damage happens. So from a sure thing build I would go 5/5/3 and rereading purple it says 2504 plus 731 which means it works like Thor, so he will do 6424 to target and 1451 to the other 2, I'll take that. That's better than Fury' purple Max utility-- 3/5/5 Max Damage --5/3/5 Most consistent build--5/5/3 Now, let's say we are going for a full 4* roster. Well you have 4hor/X-Force then it comes down to Fury and Starlord. Fury's blue won't get used, but his other 2 potentially can. Starlord, his red won't get used, but his other 2 potentially can. I would opt for Starlord becaue he can accelerate X-Force and 4hor into their skills, where as Fury just sits there, not to mention he tanks yellow and blue and with his low hitpoints this isn't ideal, with Starlord, 4hor will tank yellow and red for him so he can remain hidden. 2nd example. In PvP i opt to run 4hor and X-Force seperately to allow for a longer sustainged PvP push. Again, assuming I want to run only 4* in the other spot. 4hor/Starlord--I want Starlord 5/5/3, 1 his yellow can be very useful, 2 his red would block a red tile from possibly getting charged. X-Force/Starlord--yellow only overlap so build won't matter, however with purple I can at least place the tile in a corner and incease the likelyhood of survival vs. a random red so odds favor a 5/5/3 build, plus if facing off againsnt any characters, and I Surgical Stirke, Blackwidow, Daredevil, Deadpool, Loki, Mystique are the featured PvP's where surgical striking will destroy purple, vs. Marvel, Torch, IM40, Psylocke, Sentry, Thor. While close, odds still say I'm better off 5/5/3 With X-Force you obviously cannot guarentee anything on the board, so using Starlord's red seems like a waste of AP, where as at least Starlord's yellow can drop X-Force into a 2 match ability without boosts, at that point, if it gets blown up, I don't care. We all know that defense is a farce, it's all about speed and high damage, and that's what a 5/5/3 Starlord would give you, speed in yellow, and damage in purple. I'm sure Phantron could factor in the factor of adding 1 AP to skills vs. 2 AP. Basically Skills that cost 5AP, 8AP, 11AP are the ones that get bumped up into another match bracket. which of top tier characters, would effect X-Force, Blade, Captain America, Daken, C.Mags, Thor, so you could argue that point, but I for one would rather be trying to speed myself up vs slowing the other guy down. Yes red can do some huge damage but it's also quickly countered by another Starlord because red doesn't effect purple, so I pop my purple and destroy your red tile. That's my $0.02 but I think 5/5/3 is faster and more playable with X-Force and 4hor. Not to mention if my goal is to make other guys less spammy on the other team, I need look no farther than Hood or Loki as they do that job far better than Starlord can, nothing delays better than stealing AP. Quality argument on all fronts. I guess his red is dangerously random. Like you said, it all depends on who you're pairing him with. But you make a strong argument for 5/5/3. The only must have, in my opinion, is at least 4 in yellow. Other than that, there's an argument for any build, depending on what you are going to run him with and what goals you want to accomplish with him. The only thing I disagree with is that defense is a farce. I think I've been in the minority on this subject for a long time, but I think defense is vastly more important than offense. And not just in the sense that you can win games when they attack you. I'm more interested in scare factor. For example, yes Thorverine is fast. And deadly. And powerful. But their main draw is their defensive scare power. If Thorverine were an easy to kill team, being able to one shot and win games in under 5 minutes wouldn't matter very much. Unless you love buying shields. Defensive scare factor is one of the biggest attributes, in my opinion, for building a character. And support characters, specifically ones that can slow fights down like Loki, Hood and, perhaps, a 3/5/5 Starlord, are far more intimidating than high damage characters that the AI won't be able to place the tiles correctly or even (and I've seen this with Captain America all the time) use their placement tiles to make a three match in that same color. It's the same reason that Nick Fury isn't worth leveling right now. Big damage doesn't scare anyone if the risk of it going off is negligible. Just like the new Sentry. Easy to proc, spammable and virtually unstoppable damage is terrifying. Xforce has it. Thor has it. Both Fury and Starlord lack it, regardless of your build. And that's why I think 3/5/5 would still be an equally, if not slightly better, build both defensively and offensively, as it increases his utility, scare factor and power level in general, in many cases.
IlDuderino wrote: Re having him at 5/5/3 (which I am not clear is the best build, although if the team damage on purple also applies to the target then 5 purple would be appealing, though damage on red then becomes terrible) - wouldn't there be an argument for going 5/5/2? If you want red to actually do damage rather than prevent the opponent using his / her powers (black costing 1 more ap is a pretty marginal benefit when going from 2 to 3 covers on red) then my experience is a two turn countdown is far more likely to go off than a three turn one. Or just go 5/5/3, forget about his red and use his yellow to allow spamming of other red users' powers (Torch, Gamora, Thor etc)?
Phaserhawk wrote: IlDuderino wrote: Re having him at 5/5/3 (which I am not clear is the best build, although if the team damage on purple also applies to the target then 5 purple would be appealing, though damage on red then becomes terrible) - wouldn't there be an argument for going 5/5/2? If you want red to actually do damage rather than prevent the opponent using his / her powers (black costing 1 more ap is a pretty marginal benefit when going from 2 to 3 covers on red) then my experience is a two turn countdown is far more likely to go off than a three turn one. Or just go 5/5/3, forget about his red and use his yellow to allow spamming of other red users' powers (Torch, Gamora, Thor etc)? As for red damage, like I said on paper it looks amazing, but unless it resolves more than 2/3rds of the time, take that 7K dmage and divide it by 2 or 3 or more because that's how much damage it will average over the course of the character. That tile will not resolve more than 1/2 the time, like I said, look no further than X-Force's Recovery. That is a perfect comparison, roughly same cost, same CD time, and I can say Recovery goes off far less than 1/2 the time so the skill really reads this wayOldest Trick in the Book 8 Star-Lord points past his enemy and shouts "Hey! Is that Beta Ray Bill?" before swinging in with a sucker punch. He creates a 2-turn Countdown tile which deals 612 damage 66% of the time. While at least one such tile is on the board, all enemy Red and Green ability costs are increased by 1. (Dev note: This is placed on a random Red tile) Level 2: Deals 802 to the target enemy 66% of the time. Enemy Yellow ability costs are increased by 1. Level 3: Places a 3 turn Countdown tile. Enemy Black ability costs are increased by 1. Level 4: Deals 1897 to the target enemy 50% of the time. Enemy Red, Yellow, Green, and Black ability costs are increased by 2. Level 5: Deals 3525 to the target enemy only 50% of the time the tile resolves. Enemy Red, Yellow, Green, Black and Blue ability costs are increased by 2. Max Level: 6998 max damage, 0 min damage
Phaserhawk wrote: onimus wrote: Phaserhawk wrote: While I agree 3/5/5 makes him a strong support, not giving him any damage makes him a strong liability. How many times in a match do you lose your main damage dealer and are stuck with supports? And having misread purple, allowing him to overwrite any tile is sweet. Here's my take. Purple--known Yellow--known/random Red--Random what I mean by this is that I know what will happen with Purple, I know I can place it and if Captain America is any indicator, I can pretty much guarentee that damage going off. like I said what I don't know is how much purple will do. Does that 4k to target already include the AoE damage? yellow is known once you place it and that for that turn you can guaretee reduced costs, after that though, it is all unknown. red is all random, random where it goes, random if damage happens. So from a sure thing build I would go 5/5/3 and rereading purple it says 2504 plus 731 which means it works like Thor, so he will do 6424 to target and 1451 to the other 2, I'll take that. That's better than Fury' purple Max utility-- 3/5/5 Max Damage --5/3/5 Most consistent build--5/5/3 Now, let's say we are going for a full 4* roster. Well you have 4hor/X-Force then it comes down to Fury and Starlord. Fury's blue won't get used, but his other 2 potentially can. Starlord, his red won't get used, but his other 2 potentially can. I would opt for Starlord becaue he can accelerate X-Force and 4hor into their skills, where as Fury just sits there, not to mention he tanks yellow and blue and with his low hitpoints this isn't ideal, with Starlord, 4hor will tank yellow and red for him so he can remain hidden. 2nd example. In PvP i opt to run 4hor and X-Force seperately to allow for a longer sustainged PvP push. Again, assuming I want to run only 4* in the other spot. 4hor/Starlord--I want Starlord 5/5/3, 1 his yellow can be very useful, 2 his red would block a red tile from possibly getting charged. X-Force/Starlord--yellow only overlap so build won't matter, however with purple I can at least place the tile in a corner and incease the likelyhood of survival vs. a random red so odds favor a 5/5/3 build, plus if facing off againsnt any characters, and I Surgical Stirke, Blackwidow, Daredevil, Deadpool, Loki, Mystique are the featured PvP's where surgical striking will destroy purple, vs. Marvel, Torch, IM40, Psylocke, Sentry, Thor. While close, odds still say I'm better off 5/5/3 With X-Force you obviously cannot guarentee anything on the board, so using Starlord's red seems like a waste of AP, where as at least Starlord's yellow can drop X-Force into a 2 match ability without boosts, at that point, if it gets blown up, I don't care. We all know that defense is a farce, it's all about speed and high damage, and that's what a 5/5/3 Starlord would give you, speed in yellow, and damage in purple. I'm sure Phantron could factor in the factor of adding 1 AP to skills vs. 2 AP. Basically Skills that cost 5AP, 8AP, 11AP are the ones that get bumped up into another match bracket. which of top tier characters, would effect X-Force, Blade, Captain America, Daken, C.Mags, Thor, so you could argue that point, but I for one would rather be trying to speed myself up vs slowing the other guy down. Yes red can do some huge damage but it's also quickly countered by another Starlord because red doesn't effect purple, so I pop my purple and destroy your red tile. That's my $0.02 but I think 5/5/3 is faster and more playable with X-Force and 4hor. Not to mention if my goal is to make other guys less spammy on the other team, I need look no farther than Hood or Loki as they do that job far better than Starlord can, nothing delays better than stealing AP. Quality argument on all fronts. I guess his red is dangerously random. Like you said, it all depends on who you're pairing him with. But you make a strong argument for 5/5/3. The only must have, in my opinion, is at least 4 in yellow. Other than that, there's an argument for any build, depending on what you are going to run him with and what goals you want to accomplish with him. The only thing I disagree with is that defense is a farce. I think I've been in the minority on this subject for a long time, but I think defense is vastly more important than offense. And not just in the sense that you can win games when they attack you. I'm more interested in scare factor. For example, yes Thorverine is fast. And deadly. And powerful. But their main draw is their defensive scare power. If Thorverine were an easy to kill team, being able to one shot and win games in under 5 minutes wouldn't matter very much. Unless you love buying shields. Defensive scare factor is one of the biggest attributes, in my opinion, for building a character. And support characters, specifically ones that can slow fights down like Loki, Hood and, perhaps, a 3/5/5 Starlord, are far more intimidating than high damage characters that the AI won't be able to place the tiles correctly or even (and I've seen this with Captain America all the time) use their placement tiles to make a three match in that same color. It's the same reason that Nick Fury isn't worth leveling right now. Big damage doesn't scare anyone if the risk of it going off is negligible. Just like the new Sentry. Easy to proc, spammable and virtually unstoppable damage is terrifying. Xforce has it. Thor has it. Both Fury and Starlord lack it, regardless of your build. And that's why I think 3/5/5 would still be an equally, if not slightly better, build both defensively and offensively, as it increases his utility, scare factor and power level in general, in many cases. And you also argue a strong case. However, ask yourself this question. What makes Thoerverine scary on defense? To me it's this. X-Force--2 skills you don't want going off in green and black, with one being very low costed. 4hor--2 skills you don't want going off together that are avg cost but seperately not scary. Here's the reason they are scary. You have 4 colors to defend and 26000+ hitpoints to eat through. If you sub Fury in for 4hor you still have the same number of colors to defend, but a hell of a lot less hitpoints to chew threw, knowing that if Fury's blue goes off, one of your guys is dying more than likely. Sub Fury in for X-Force and you have only 3 colors to defeend and less hitpoints. The reason Thorverine is so scary is because of the combinations of skills and hitpoints. If you make Starlord 3/5/5 and put him with 4hor, you only have 2 colors to defned, red and blue, because Starlord's purple is now not scary and yellow doesn't hurt you much. Pair Starlord with X-Force at 3/5/5 again you don't need to defend purple because it's not scary, you just need to defend green/black/red. Now if you remove 4hor and X-Force, well now I 100% agree that 3/5/5 would be the way to go since if you paired him with Fury, Fury's purple is cheaper and more guarenteed damage. My final reason to go 5 purple, is it also makes him playble in PvE, because face it, with Goons it doesn't matter if you add 2 onto their costs, they will make tiles regardless because of their free AP, but at least with max purple you can destroy their CD tiles, and that is why I will for sure go 5 purple. PvE i'm not sure if 5/3/5 or 5/5/3 is better, but for PvP I think a 5/5/3 Starlord is the better way to go and I do see him playable in high level PvP, not as your defensive team, but as a climb, because he saves you ISO because he lowers your need to always boost