**** Star-Lord (Legendary Outlaw) ****

Phaserhawk

onimus wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

onimus wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

While I agree 3/5/5 makes him a strong support, not giving him any damage makes him a strong liability. How many times in a match do you lose your main damage dealer and are stuck with supports?

And having misread purple, allowing him to overwrite any tile is sweet. Here's my take.

Purple--known
Yellow--known/random
Red--Random

what I mean by this is that I know what will happen with Purple, I know I can place it and if Captain America is any indicator, I can pretty much guarentee that damage going off. like I said what I don't know is how much purple will do. Does that 4k to target already include the AoE damage?

yellow is known once you place it and that for that turn you can guaretee reduced costs, after that though, it is all unknown.

red is all random, random where it goes, random if damage happens.

So from a sure thing build I would go 5/5/3 and rereading purple it says 2504 plus 731 which means it works like Thor, so he will do 6424 to target and 1451 to the other 2, I'll take that. That's better than Fury' purple

Max utility-- 3/5/5
Max Damage --5/3/5
Most consistent build--5/5/3

Now, let's say we are going for a full 4* roster. Well you have 4hor/X-Force then it comes down to Fury and Starlord.

Fury's blue won't get used, but his other 2 potentially can.

Starlord, his red won't get used, but his other 2 potentially can.

I would opt for Starlord becaue he can accelerate X-Force and 4hor into their skills, where as Fury just sits there, not to mention he tanks yellow and blue and with his low hitpoints this isn't ideal, with Starlord, 4hor will tank yellow and red for him so he can remain hidden.

2nd example. In PvP i opt to run 4hor and X-Force seperately to allow for a longer sustainged PvP push. Again, assuming I want to run only 4* in the other spot. 4hor/Starlord--I want Starlord 5/5/3, 1 his yellow can be very useful, 2 his red would block a red tile from possibly getting charged. X-Force/Starlord--yellow only overlap so build won't matter, however with purple I can at least place the tile in a corner and incease the likelyhood of survival vs. a random red so odds favor a 5/5/3 build, plus if facing off againsnt any characters, and I Surgical Stirke, Blackwidow, Daredevil, Deadpool, Loki, Mystique are the featured PvP's where surgical striking will destroy purple, vs. Marvel, Torch, IM40, Psylocke, Sentry, Thor. While close, odds still say I'm better off 5/5/3

With X-Force you obviously cannot guarentee anything on the board, so using Starlord's red seems like a waste of AP, where as at least Starlord's yellow can drop X-Force into a 2 match ability without boosts, at that point, if it gets blown up, I don't care.

We all know that defense is a farce, it's all about speed and high damage, and that's what a 5/5/3 Starlord would give you, speed in yellow, and damage in purple. I'm sure Phantron could factor in the factor of adding 1 AP to skills vs. 2 AP. Basically Skills that cost 5AP, 8AP, 11AP are the ones that get bumped up into another match bracket. which of top tier characters, would effect X-Force, Blade, Captain America, Daken, C.Mags, Thor, so you could argue that point, but I for one would rather be trying to speed myself up vs slowing the other guy down. Yes red can do some huge damage but it's also quickly countered by another Starlord because red doesn't effect purple, so I pop my purple and destroy your red tile.

That's my $0.02 but I think 5/5/3 is faster and more playable with X-Force and 4hor. Not to mention if my goal is to make other guys less spammy on the other team, I need look no farther than Hood or Loki as they do that job far better than Starlord can, nothing delays better than stealing AP.

Quality argument on all fronts.
I guess his red is dangerously random.

Like you said, it all depends on who you're pairing him with. But you make a strong argument for 5/5/3. The only must have, in my opinion, is at least 4 in yellow. Other than that, there's an argument for any build, depending on what you are going to run him with and what goals you want to accomplish with him.

The only thing I disagree with is that defense is a farce.

I think I've been in the minority on this subject for a long time, but I think defense is vastly more important than offense. And not just in the sense that you can win games when they attack you. I'm more interested in scare factor.

For example, yes Thorverine is fast. And deadly. And powerful.

But their main draw is their defensive scare power. If Thorverine were an easy to kill team, being able to one shot and win games in under 5 minutes wouldn't matter very much. Unless you love buying shields.

Defensive scare factor is one of the biggest attributes, in my opinion, for building a character. And support characters, specifically ones that can slow fights down like Loki, Hood and, perhaps, a 3/5/5 Starlord, are far more intimidating than high damage characters that the AI won't be able to place the tiles correctly or even (and I've seen this with Captain America all the time) use their placement tiles to make a three match in that same color.

It's the same reason that Nick Fury isn't worth leveling right now. Big damage doesn't scare anyone if the risk of it going off is negligible. Just like the new Sentry.

Easy to proc, spammable and virtually unstoppable damage is terrifying. Xforce has it. Thor has it. Both Fury and Starlord lack it, regardless of your build.

And that's why I think 3/5/5 would still be an equally, if not slightly better, build both defensively and offensively, as it increases his utility, scare factor and power level in general, in many cases.

And you also argue a strong case. However, ask yourself this question. What makes Thoerverine scary on defense?

To me it's this.

X-Force--2 skills you don't want going off in green and black, with one being very low costed.
4hor--2 skills you don't want going off together that are avg cost but seperately not scary.

Here's the reason they are scary. You have 4 colors to defend and 26000+ hitpoints to eat through. If you sub Fury in for 4hor you still have the same number of colors to defend, but a hell of a lot less hitpoints to chew threw, knowing that if Fury's blue goes off, one of your guys is dying more than likely. Sub Fury in for X-Force and you have only 3 colors to defeend and less hitpoints. The reason Thorverine is so scary is because of the combinations of skills and hitpoints.

If you make Starlord 3/5/5 and put him with 4hor, you only have 2 colors to defned, red and blue, because Starlord's purple is now not scary and yellow doesn't hurt you much. Pair Starlord with X-Force at 3/5/5 again you don't need to defend purple because it's not scary, you just need to defend green/black/red. Now if you remove 4hor and X-Force, well now I 100% agree that 3/5/5 would be the way to go since if you paired him with Fury, Fury's purple is cheaper and more guarenteed damage.

My final reason to go 5 purple, is it also makes him playble in PvE, because face it, with Goons it doesn't matter if you add 2 onto their costs, they will make tiles regardless because of their free AP, but at least with max purple you can destroy their CD tiles, and that is why I will for sure go 5 purple.

PvE i'm not sure if 5/3/5 or 5/5/3 is better, but for PvP I think a 5/5/3 Starlord is the better way to go and I do see him playable in high level PvP, not as your defensive team, but as a climb, because he saves you ISO because he lowers your need to always boost

I can see your point and I relent that 5/5/3 would absolutely be stronger when pairing him with either Xforce or Thor. With Xforce, you'll be too busy farming green and black to ever put any focus on red. And even in the scenario that you are out of green or black to farm, purple at 5 covers is far more likely to proc than red, as you've said. And with Thor, obviously she's going to be using all your red.

That point is quite clear.

I still think you can't dismiss how long a 3/5/5 could potentially drag out a defensive fight. Especially since we all know the AI loves to randomly cascade the perfect amount of AP necessary to just make your fight miserable.

But you're right. I don't think 3/5/5 would be significantly more strong than 5/5/3 on defense such that it would justify weakening him on offense, in matches with the other relevant 4 stars, as well as weakening him in PVE.

He would work at 3/5/5 if you pair him with Nick Fury. But let's be honest. If you have leveled Nick Fury and Star Lord before you leveled Thor and Xforce, you either have terrible prioritization skills or you somehow came into a bunch of covers for 2 of the inferior 4 stars and committed almost 1 million ISO to them haha. That is far from an ideal scenario.

It was good to talk it out though.

yay, I actually swayed someone, usually I'm the one being swayed. Honestly I would rather have him 3/5/5 but when I plugged him into my reality check calculator I saw that red was not as good as the numbers look and purple was a little better. If you could place all tiles then without a doubt 3/5/5 ftw but I have been on the short end of Reovery way too much to put any stock in a random 3CD tile.

An intersting twist would have been 2CD but increases skills by 3AP, now that would be intersting, but from an earlier Phantron post, it's too bad it doesn't do 1/2 the damage up front and the other 1/2 on resolve. With 5/5/3 I just see more things going right and 3/5/5 more things going wrong. I'm just trying to figure out if he's worth the 5/5/3 or just completely optimizing him for Goon PvE and going 5/3/5, but I honestly beleive he will see some play in mid to high level PvP and like I said before, delaying a goon tile by 2 won't make much of a diference, and I'd like the ability to overwrite a CD tile. Plus, in PvE I would pair him exclusively with Captain America as you will get some crazy combo's and have 3 colors to overwrite tiles and Caps red returns more AP than it will use and his blue is even.

Question if anyone knows. Would Starlord's yellow reduce the threshold cost of Falcon's blue?

Unknown

I think people worry too much about CDs. Even Escape Plan can resolve a decent amount of the time and that's something you can't even protect. The damage done by his red/purple is pretty good even if it requires 2-3 turns. Purple is more problematic because it requires something that can be converted in the first place so you could be sitting on nothing if the opponent has no special tiles.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

Stuff

yay, I actually swayed someone, usually I'm the one being swayed. Honestly I would rather have him 3/5/5 but when I plugged him into my reality check calculator I saw that red was not as good as the numbers look and purple was a little better. If you could place all tiles then without a doubt 3/5/5 ftw but I have been on the short end of Reovery way too much to put any stock in a random 3CD tile.

An intersting twist would have been 2CD but increases skills by 3AP, now that would be intersting, but from an earlier Phantron post, it's too bad it doesn't do 1/2 the damage up front and the other 1/2 on resolve. With 5/5/3 I just see more things going right and 3/5/5 more things going wrong. I'm just trying to figure out if he's worth the 5/5/3 or just completely optimizing him for Goon PvE and going 5/3/5, but I honestly beleive he will see some play in mid to high level PvP and like I said before, delaying a goon tile by 2 won't make much of a diference, and I'd like the ability to overwrite a CD tile. Plus, in PvE I would pair him exclusively with Captain America as you will get some crazy combo's and have 3 colors to overwrite tiles and Caps red returns more AP than it will use and his blue is even.

Question if anyone knows. Would Starlord's yellow reduce the threshold cost of Falcon's blue?

I have very fluid ideas on builds and viability in this game. Most people will ignore evidence just to assure themselves they're right. I find myself talking through the pros and cons a little more often. Or maybe I'm just weak willed. I'm not sure haha.

As for your question, I would highly doubt it. The 5 AP isn't really a cost of Falcon's blue. More a requirement.

Likewise, I don't think it would lower Nick Fury's requirements on his yellow.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

I think people worry too much about CDs. Even Escape Plan can resolve a decent amount of the time and that's something you can't even protect. The damage done by his red/purple is pretty good even if it requires 2-3 turns. Purple is more problematic because it requires something that can be converted in the first place so you could be sitting on nothing if the opponent has no special tiles.

Judging by this thread this game is going to need a giant, slow banner explaining Star-Lord's purple after every turn

CrookedKnight

Did people have this much trouble figuring out Captain America?

Unknown

CrookedKnight wrote:

Did people have this much trouble figuring out Captain America?

If one of Starlord's powers cost 19 AP there wouldn't be a discussion going on.

Phaserhawk

Phantron wrote:

I think people worry too much about CDs. Even Escape Plan can resolve a decent amount of the time and that's something you can't even protect. The damage done by his red/purple is pretty good even if it requires 2-3 turns. Purple is more problematic because it requires something that can be converted in the first place so you could be sitting on nothing if the opponent has no special tiles.

Does it? It just says non-cd tile, not non-cd special tile.

In addition the marvel.com article says this

Quill is a 4* (Legendary) Purple/Yellow/Red character and has the moves to go along with it. His first ability, Sleight of Hand, exemplifies his talent for messing with his opponent in some potentially lethal ways. Here Peter replaces a tile on the board with an explosive surprise that goes off in a few turns. This deals an unhealthy amount of damage to the target when it goes off as the unwitting dupe gets in the way of the booby trap. At higher levels, Star-Lord can even replace Countdown tiles with this, allowing for a good amount of board control ability at a respectable 10 Purple AP per use.

I think you are reading to much into the swaps enemy posseions in the skill text.

Unknown

I re-read the purple's description and both the name and the flavor text would indicate the ability is used in a completely different way compared to its actual usage. They should at least redo the flavor text.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

I re-read the purple's description and both the name and the flavor text would indicate the ability is used in a completely different way compared to its actual usage. They should at least redo the flavor text.

"Star Lord leaves a little surprise in his enemy's pants..." uhh wait maybe not

CrookedKnight

Ben Grimm wrote:

CrookedKnight wrote:

Did people have this much trouble figuring out Captain America?

If one of Starlord's powers cost 19 AP there wouldn't be a discussion going on.

In terms of how placing the countdown works.

Phaserhawk

Phantron wrote:

I re-read the purple's description and both the name and the flavor text would indicate the ability is used in a completely different way compared to its actual usage. They should at least redo the flavor text.

With that I 100% agree. In fact all of this skills need to be clarified or re-worded as you stated purple sounds like it only works on special tiles, red sounds like it does damage instantly, and both yellow and red left questions if you could get multiple effects from multiple tiles.

Unknown

i just got Star Lord Today for winning one the event's and i also got thor goddess out of a heroic pack. is that lucky or what? still need help on who i should keep...

Unknown

DoubleTheNun wrote:

i just got Star Lord Today for winning one the event's and i also got thor goddess out of a heroic pack. is that lucky or what? still need help on who i should keep...

Thor is leagues better than starlord, and after R&G essentials, he'll never be essential again. That being said, I'd never throw away any 4* - you never know who's gonna become the next X-force

Unknown

raisinbman wrote:

DoubleTheNun wrote:

i just got Star Lord Today for winning one the event's and i also got thor goddess out of a heroic pack. is that lucky or what? still need help on who i should keep...

Thor is leagues better than starlord, and after R&G essentials, he'll never be essential again. That being said, I'd never throw away any 4* - you never know who's gonna become the next X-force

Clearly, it will be IW, right ... Or are we just denying her existence like Marvel is now doing with everything related to the FF?

Unknown

Ghost79 wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

DoubleTheNun wrote:

i just got Star Lord Today for winning one the event's and i also got thor goddess out of a heroic pack. is that lucky or what? still need help on who i should keep...

Thor is leagues better than starlord, and after R&G essentials, he'll never be essential again. That being said, I'd never throw away any 4* - you never know who's gonna become the next X-force

Clearly, it will be IW, right ... Or are we just denying her existence like Marvel is now doing with everything related to the FF?

I don't know. You'd think D3 would prioritize buffing 4* characters so we'd go crazy trying to get EVERY one of them instead of Dino/X-Force/Thor and not really caring about the rest. Then again, maybe the 4* audience isn't big enough and they'd rather buff 3* first.

And as a side note, they just released their F4 trailer, so its not completely dead. But the FF are in a really weird space - their movies sucked, Avengers/Guardians are super-popular now. I don't see the point of F4 when Avengers/Guardians covers their 'territory' and is hella successful at doing so. Personally, I don't see a whole lot of space for them but then again I know next to nothing about comics.

Unknown

raisinbman wrote:

Ghost79 wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

DoubleTheNun wrote:

i just got Star Lord Today for winning one the event's and i also got thor goddess out of a heroic pack. is that lucky or what? still need help on who i should keep...

Thor is leagues better than starlord, and after R&G essentials, he'll never be essential again. That being said, I'd never throw away any 4* - you never know who's gonna become the next X-force

Clearly, it will be IW, right ... Or are we just denying her existence like Marvel is now doing with everything related to the FF?

I don't know. You'd think D3 would prioritize buffing 4* characters so we'd go crazy trying to get EVERY one of them instead of Dino/X-Force/Thor and not really caring about the rest. Then again, maybe the 4* audience isn't big enough and they'd rather buff 3* first.

And as a side note, they just released their F4 trailer, so its not completely dead. But the FF are in a really weird space - their movies sucked, Avengers/Guardians are super-popular now. I don't see the point of F4 when Avengers/Guardians covers their 'territory' and is hella successful at doing so. Personally, I don't see a whole lot of space for them but then again I know next to nothing about comics.

That's because Marvel doesn't own the movie rights to FF. Fox does. And Fox is full of incompetent buffoons.

dkffiv

Ghost79 wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

DoubleTheNun wrote:

i just got Star Lord Today for winning one the event's and i also got thor goddess out of a heroic pack. is that lucky or what? still need help on who i should keep...

Thor is leagues better than starlord, and after R&G essentials, he'll never be essential again. That being said, I'd never throw away any 4* - you never know who's gonna become the next X-force

Clearly, it will be IW, right ... Or are we just denying her existence like Marvel is now doing with everything related to the FF?

During the January youtube video thing they said Rag is the next rebalanced champ, then IW/Doc Oc/She Hulk. Mine's up to 230 in anticipation.

Unknown

dkffiv wrote:

Ghost79 wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

DoubleTheNun wrote:

i just got Star Lord Today for winning one the event's and i also got thor goddess out of a heroic pack. is that lucky or what? still need help on who i should keep...

Thor is leagues better than starlord, and after R&G essentials, he'll never be essential again. That being said, I'd never throw away any 4* - you never know who's gonna become the next X-force

Clearly, it will be IW, right ... Or are we just denying her existence like Marvel is now doing with everything related to the FF?

During the January youtube video thing they said Rag is the next rebalanced champ, then IW/Doc Oc/She Hulk. Mine's up to 230 in anticipation.

So how long for Shulk buff? I was saving ISO for her...she going to be buffed in season XI or later ?

Phaserhawk

[quote="raisinbman"

So how long for Shulk buff? I was saving ISO for her...she going to be buffed in season XI or later ?[/quote]

Since she is out of rotation right now, I would suspect when she rotates back in. She-Hulk shouldn't take too much to fix either. Lower Gren's cost and have blue work even if there aren't 3 tiles out, red is actually in a good spot.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

So how long for Shulk buff? I was saving ISO for her...she going to be buffed in season XI or later ?

Since she is out of rotation right now, I would suspect when she rotates back in. She-Hulk shouldn't take too much to fix either. Lower Gren's cost and have blue work even if there aren't 3 tiles out, red is actually in a good spot.

I'm biased because I have her at 12 covers and want her to be good so bad, lol. But I do think she's one of the easier to fix heroes - make blue less obtuse, get rid of green's non-true healing(just get rid of all nontrue healing, everyone suffers besides 2*BW) and make it do...something useful.

She-Hulk: She-Hulk needs a complete rework, but let's do this anyway: Reprieve changed to War-Cry: She-Hulk charges into battle with an unnerving scream, stunning her enem(ies) and disrupting their movements. To keep with the spirit of the move, she could either PREVENT enemies from generating AP/setting off countdown tiles/using abilities/attack tiles going off or cause the enemy to "waste/overuse" AP(takes double AP if they use the move? They can't use the move for a couple turns?)

My suggestion from viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21521

EDIT: She's not rotating back in for season XI, guess I'll just level 3*Thor instead