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  • WhiteBomber
    WhiteBomber Posts: 732 Critical Contributor

    I must have missed the comment where someone mentioned Leapfrog causing wipes, but just in case that was directed at me: I was noting the opposite; I don't believe Leapfrog to be any more a problem than Fantasticar, or Arrow, and I think KGB may have been saying something similar.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,851 Chairperson of the Boards

    @WhiteBomber said:

    @KGB said:
    It's the only defense you have against supports that grant a bunch of starting AP followed by things like Headbutt from a boosted 5 star ascended Juggs on turn 1.

    I don't think I've lost a single match to Leapfrog since you first realize to play around it.

    You said it didn't cause wipes, and my assumption was you saying that means it's ok.

    Folks didn't wipe to Chasm, and he wasn't ok.

  • WhiteBomber
    WhiteBomber Posts: 732 Critical Contributor

    Oooooh, "wipe" is just "lose a fight" in this context?

    I can also add that, in my experience, Frog barely even slows the match down, but I am going in prepared to fight it. I also believe the old Chasm is a faaar stretch from Frog, so this comparison is strange to me. Chasm had minimal to no true counter Frog can easily be played around.

    I personally don't even mind if they nerf it, I don't use it as often, nor do I mind fighting it. I just like to share experience, as there are sometimes others out there who get help out of it, and in turn, perhaps won't need to call for nerfs as often.

    I'm not blind, I can see it's an excellent defensive support, but I would also say, that if people prepared for it, it's not as big of a deal. For me, this is no where near as big a problem as Chasm, Red, May and is less abundant.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,851 Chairperson of the Boards

    Fwiw I'm actually pretty convinced by KGB's argument here, but I'm not sure what it means.

    Leapfrog is likely holding back a number of other... unpleasant...strategies in PvP, relying on free AP supports for turn0/turn 1 wins. It's also unpleasant that leapfrog is responsible for that, but nerfing frog would likely result in a series of new problems that might be worse.

    This wouldn't be as big an issue if they could be trusted to make adjustments more than twice a year, but given that, I'm inclined to say we're better off with leapfrog.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,851 Chairperson of the Boards

    @WhiteBomber said:
    Oooooh, "wipe" is just "lose a fight" in this context?

    I can also add that, in my experience, Frog barely even slows the match down, but I am going in prepared to fight it. I also believe the old Chasm is a faaar stretch from Frog, so this comparison is strange to me. Chasm had minimal to no true counter Frog can easily be played around.

    I personally don't even mind if they nerf it, I don't use it as often, nor do I mind fighting it. I just like to share experience, as there are sometimes others out there who get help out of it, and in turn, perhaps won't need to call for nerfs as often.

    I'm not blind, I can see it's an excellent defensive support, but I would also say, that if people prepared for it, it's not as big of a deal. For me, this is no where near as big a problem as Chasm, Red, May and is less abundant.

    Yeah, wiping is losing on offense. I don't think I disagree with you there. I wasn't trying to compare Chasm to leapfrog, just saying his defenders used a similar argument.

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