*** Sentry (Dark Avengers) ***

Unknown

After monitoring my Sentry's "carnage successes" for a bit in the wake of R60, I feel he has been effectively nerfed by nerfing Daken's strike tile strength. He still does a lot of damage, but I have rarely managed to down the opposing team in one go since then.

vudu3

Going from 3 red to 5 red will result in additional damage between 400 and and 922 per enemy, depending on how many red tiles are on the board. Self-damage will reduce by between 230 and 504 per teammate, again, depending on the number of red tiles on the board.

If tiles were truly random then you would expect there to be 9 red tiles on the board and thus you'd get the full effect of a stronger Supernova. However, since red's typically a sought-after color--espectially after you matched enough to get the 11 AP necessary for Supernova it's likely that there will be fewer than 9 red tiles present. If we take the conservative approach and say there will be 7 or less red tiles then it means upgrading Supernova from 3 to 5 covers will result in an additional 400/enemy damage and reduce team damage by 504/teammate.

In my opinion not all that great, especially considering I don't generally want to fire off Supernova unless I'm in trouble to begin with.

GrumpySmurf1002

To the best of my knowledge, Sentry is the only one with two AOE attacks. I'm sure there's a comic book reason for this to be the case, but balance wise it doesn't make sense that a 3* would get such treatment (this feels like a 4* Jean Grey skillset). So the easiest way to nerf/balance him: Take that element away. Doesn't damage entire team, doesn't damage allies.

WR is a single target attack. It basically becomes 3* Headbutt, except with countdowns, more damage, and less self damage. Done.

However, the other thing required is to make him more usable in PvE. This change doesn't help that. So additional change:

Either WR or Sacrifice when cast removes all enemy countdown tiles, in addition to current functionality. Not sure which is better to add this feature, but with Sentry's AOE immolation, he should get a little something additional to show for it.

Pros:
No change needed to how strike tiles function
No change needed to how countdowns trigger.
Still one-shots the biggest opponents.
More useful in PvE
Everyone Loves Juggernaut.

Cons:
It's my idea, I don't have any. Complaining about his nerf maybe?

Unknown

Supernova is probably as valuable as World Rupture defensively considering the AI doesn't set up combos but World Rupture is definitely more valuable than Supernova on offense. Sacrifice is the enabler of pretty much everything else. If there's only one skill you can max, it should be Sacrifice.

Phaserhawk

Supernova
============
Lvl 3 --Max Damage --1391 + (261 x 7)==3218
Lvl 4 --Max Damage --1791 + (261 x 7)==3618
Lvl 5 --Max Damage --1791 + (261 x 9)==4140

Lvl 3 does 400 less than lvl 4 which does 522 less than lvl 5

However you aren't guarenteed any of that damage because you have to have the number of tiles out

digitaljoel

Sentry is pretty powerful, but in my limited experience with him, he's so destructive to the friendly team that you can't really blast through a lot of offensive matches with him because you are out of heals in two matches. That's his main balancing feature. So yeah, I just make sure to use him as my last match to keep him in on defense. The AI isn't as smart as any of the players, thankfully, so even then on defense it's not a sure thing.

I think the easiest way to "fix" him, if we must have a change, is to make enemy strike tiles affect the friendly damage.

Unknown

Given the above two statements does a 4/5/4 build make any sense? There are rarely if ever more than 7 red tiles on a board, so upping it to 9 tiles isn't that huge of a bump. Base damage does not increase from 4 to 5 for Supernova. It's power on defense tho is amazing. Especially if you use guest/Sentry/Hood, as his power could be the only red available.

Phaserhawk

Lerysh wrote:

Given the above two statements does a 4/5/4 build make any sense? There are rarely if ever more than 7 red tiles on a board, so upping it to 9 tiles isn't that huge of a bump. Base damage does not increase from 4 to 5 for Supernova. It's power on defense tho is amazing. Especially if you use guest/Sentry/Hood, as his power could be the only red available.

Unknown

I don't want to get into a massive rant, but sentry has to much health.

He should max out at around 7-8k, not his current Thor like 10,200.

simonsez

Yes, 7k health with all that self-damage would make him unusable, if that's what you're shooting for...

Unknown

At the moment he's the best offensive and one of the best defensive characters in the game, hitting his health a bit will make him a bit more vulnerable, which he needs to be.

It's either that or wait a while till 'metrics' show everyone has him, then watch as be gets hit hard by the nerd bat.

Cragger

This is a game based on Marvel comic book characters. I will give some examples of ridiculous things that Sentry has done:

His tagline alone is that he "possesses the power of one million exploding suns"
In his debut appearance, he tore Carnage in half and threw him into orbit.
The Sentry broke the Galactic Axe of Terrax, and didn't even break a sweat.
Fearing the extent of his own powers, Sentry erased the memory of his existence from nearly every mind on earth.
Sentry brought his wife back to life after she was killed by Ultron.
After joining the Dark Avengers, Sentry was killed by Morgan la Fey. He resurrected himself.
He was disintegrated by the Molecule Man, twice, he put himself back together and in turn absorbs Molecule Man, apparently killing him.
As part of the siege of Asgard, he nearly single handedly defeats the combined forces of Asgard and the Avengers.
While doing so, he tore the Olympian god Area clean in half.
He was defeated and killed by the full might of Thor, who cremated his body in the Sun, where the Sentry then died a million deaths to atone for his deeds.
While no comic covers the exact events, he once fought and single-handedly stalemated Galactus.

With some of that context, his "abilities" rank at or higher than nearly every other Marvel superhero.
Strength- Regularly goes toe to toe with Thor, Hulk, Galactus, ect.
Speed- if he isn't outright teleporting, he can travel at near-light speed, making interstellar journeys near instantaneously.
Stamina- See his fight against Green Scar Hulk, the fight was stopped only because the planet would have otherwise been destroyed.
Senses- Near omniscience of his direct surroundings, to the molecular level.
Energy- see "the power of a million exploding suns." While it may be an exaggeration, he can emit energy in excess of a solar flare. Also see The Void.
Mental- has the ability to rewrite every sentient mind on earth, yet himself can be susceptible to mental manipulation, perhaps by his own fractured mind.
Reality- he powers, when fully revealed, all stem from a nearly-limitless ability to overwrite reality to his own desire. Every other power stems from this.
Weaknesses- Mental manipulation by himself or others. The Negative Zone has a deleterious effect on his powers, maybe.


Be glad that the game developers have decided to make him simply over-powered in comparison to the other characters in the game. He could have one power "Angel of Death" that simply ends the match on his first turn. Or perhaps "Ressurection" that immediately returns him to full health if not stunned when he is downed. And be especially glad that they didn't include "Everyone Forgets" in which The Sentry, fearing his own power, deletes the game from your device.

Unknown

The game's balance has never been based on their comic counterpart's strength or a lot of characters should just automatically be downed when facing an awe inspiring figure like Thor.

For what Sentry does his HP should be in The Hood's class, not Thor's class. For that matter Thor should have GSBW's level of HP for the power he brings. There should be a rather simple inverse relationship between a character's HP and the amount of firepower he has, but unfortunately this isn't remotely true.

Cragger

Phantron wrote:

The game's balance has never been based on their comic counterpart's strength or a lot of characters should just automatically be downed when facing an awe inspiring figure like Thor.

For what Sentry does his HP should be in The Hood's class, not Thor's class. For that matter Thor should have GSBW's level of HP for the power he brings. There should be a rather simple inverse relationship between a character's HP and the amount of firepower he has, but unfortunately this isn't remotely true.

Would the game be better if the choice of characters was between glass cannons (high power, low HP), inert bricks (high HP, low power), and average joes (average HP and power)? I say that a game based on comic book heroes better well have some powerful but well rounded options. There are good characters, bad characters, and average ones. In comic books there are awesome heroes, pathetic villains, and regular people in extraordinary circumstances; a game based on existing intellectual property should reflect the values of its source material.

In the comics The Sentry is most definitely "overpowering," why should his in-game character not be likewise? I don't see Yelena/Hawkeye/Loki teams beating Sentry/anyone/anyone in PvP. In fact, they are for the most part "automatically downed" when facing him.

Perhaps, just perhaps, someone unfamiliar with the comics is wondering who this guy is and why he is so amazing might go pick up a comic book at their local friendly comic store. Perhaps, just perhaps, that is why Marvel licenses their material to third parties. This game isn't about a theoretical game-theory tenets, it is about marketing and money.

If anyone wants better game balance without "the story" getting in the way, there are plenty of other games without such licensor limitations.

Unknown

Cragger wrote:

Phantron wrote:

The game's balance has never been based on their comic counterpart's strength or a lot of characters should just automatically be downed when facing an awe inspiring figure like Thor.

For what Sentry does his HP should be in The Hood's class, not Thor's class. For that matter Thor should have GSBW's level of HP for the power he brings. There should be a rather simple inverse relationship between a character's HP and the amount of firepower he has, but unfortunately this isn't remotely true.

Would the game be better if the choice of characters was between glass cannons (high power, low HP), inert bricks (high HP, low power), and average joes (average HP and power)? I say that a game based on comic book heroes better well have some powerful but well rounded options. There are good characters, bad characters, and average ones. In comic books there are awesome heroes, pathetic villains, and regular people in extraordinary circumstances; a game based on existing intellectual property should reflect the values of its source material.

In the comics The Sentry is most definitely "overpowering," why should his in-game character not be likewise? I don't see Yelena/Hawkeye/Loki teams beating Sentry/anyone/anyone in PvP. In fact, they are for the most part "automatically downed" when facing him.

Perhaps, just perhaps, someone unfamiliar with the comics is wondering who this guy is and why he is so amazing might go pick up a comic book at their local friendly comic store. Perhaps, just perhaps, that is why Marvel licenses their material to third parties. This game isn't about a theoretical game-theory tenets, it is about marketing and money.

If anyone wants better game balance without "the story" getting in the way, there are plenty of other games without such licensor limitations.

The way you're designing a game if this was DCPQ then Superman would autowin because (almost) nobody ever beats Superman in his universe. If this is DBZPQ then Goku would always win for the same reason, and if you play Mr. Satan you'd just instantly lose. That isn't how you make an interesting or profitable game. For that matter almost no game based on these licenses plays like that unless it's a single player game.

It's one thing people accept characters aren't going to be balanced due to inability. It's another to tell people Superman is designed to totally own everyone else because he's Superman. There's more than just HP and damage, but that's the two easiest dimension to balance. Senry has high HP, high damage, cheap cost moves, and his moves interact well with anyone else. There's no possible way this is fair.

GuntherBlobel

I don't mind that he has lots of health. He should need it to survive his own masochistic onslaught. But I wish that instead of just injuring his allies each round, that he would consistently down those without similarly high health.

The fact that Hood/Sentry is a viable team tells me that he is not working as intended. Hood should be history after that first WR.

Houtro

"The power of one million exploding suns." says it all! Is one of the most powerful characters in the Marvel Universe, that's why!

Unknown

For me, Sentry can keep is 10000 life and damage, but for balance world rupture must cost at least 14 AP.

Raffoon

OK so, if you could make changes to Sentry, what would they be? Let's use the power of forum brainstorming!

I'd say: Change Yellow from an attack tile ability to a version of Ragnarok's thunderclap ability. Have it deal some moderate damage and create green tiles. This maintains the same pattern of gameplay, where you collect yellow to enable your green to function better on offense. You would still want to deny Sentry green and yellow as big priorities on defense. It would force Sentry to rely on another strike tile creator to take full advantage of his green. This would create an interesting dynamic on defense where you would have to choose between focusing down that Daken/Psylocke to stop Sentry from powering up his green, or just try to rush Sentry himself down.

Another potential change, decrease the number of world rupture countdown tiles by 2-4. Maybe decrease the self-damage a bit to compensate if that's too much of a nerf on its own? It would keep the same general play patterns and synergies but would make the interaction with strike tiles a bit less broken than it is currently. Nobody needs a 16 times multiplier on their strike tiles. Perhaps an 12 times multiplier would tone it down just a notch while still serving the same purpose?

What other ideas do people have? Instead of just saying there's a problem, let's say how it could be fixed.


(Edit: Also, taking into account the fact that World Rupture hits the entire opposing team, it actually counts each strike tile 48 times in terms of total additional damage done. That is just plain absurd.)

Unknown

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but there have been many threads on this subject. But to back you up, here are the two that I like the best.

1) Get rid of boosts.

2) All World Rupture tiles go off at once.