Introducing the All-New Cover Exchange System!

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Comments

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,999 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 22 December 2024, 15:47

    Comparing cover swaps to medical care is a pretty fantastic example of the sort of bizarre entitlement I just love to see. Painting the ultra elite of the game as victims (won't someone think of the billionaires top 10 alliances?). Maxed out MPQ characters are (probably, I'm not an ethics professor?) not a fundamental human right.

    But the metaphor works quite well here if you flip it around. In this case, the top .01% of players have had to give up their gold-plated top secret insurance that paid for absolutely everything, but 99.99% of players now have access to a service that, while maybe a bit less gold-plated, is a big improvement over what they had before.

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,854 Chairperson of the Boards

    As I have said (?) I think the main place it makes sense for the vast majority of players to use swaps is for finishing off a 1 or 2 when you’re impatient. Others who are more invested might use it to accelerate leveling of other characters.

    The devs said in the roadmap that they want to rework the early game for new players in the relatively near term.

    The swap system being put in now is probably part of that strategy to make the game feel friendlier to those players. So that’s imo another big reason to push it in now.

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,999 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 22 December 2024, 18:56

    @LavaManLee said:
    As someone who has been on the 550 train for a little over a year, I am definitely bummed out a bit with the change. However, (a) I totally get this is a business and they need to make money. Unless we are independently wealthy, all of us work somewhere that earning a profit, or at least breaking even, is the name of the game. And (b), I actually LOVE the change to be able to swap 1/2/3/4. That is huge. Yes, it costs HP, but it is better than not being able to do it.

    I’ve never done the 550 train myself. I’ve done two separate hoard breaks during my 10 years. One was a fan faves and I couldn’t swap. The other was a LL and I over-pulled to 550 all the metas I wanted (Colossus, Omega, Chasm, etc). As you can imagine, a decade a soft-capping gave me a sizable hoard. I’m glad I got my swaps in during May/May/Jubilee long before this went live as I feel it’s a pretty significant gate to anyone trying to build a competitive roster now. I think it’s just as easy to F2P 550 new characters as it was before, but much more costly to catch up.

    So this changes nothing about how I play. You can still 550 train, but will miss out on the new character boost. But then, so will most everyone else. I get why you would be bummed about losing a thing you had and also excited about getting a new thing you didn’t have. My point was that the new thing is different from old thing and not really a replacement for it- at least until the update where they found a way to monetize the old thing (swapping LL for LL) along with the new thing. But before, they removed it completely, which was baffling to me.

  • Zarqa
    Zarqa Posts: 354 Mover and Shaker

    Agree, I also enjoyed the analogy and felt it was fairly accurate as analogies go. I am not an ‘ultra elite’, in case that matters…

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,287 Chairperson of the Boards

    The only part he got wrong was worrying about affording the care. If you just show up at emergency they have to treat you even if you have zero cash / insurance. They make up for those deadbeats by overcharging everyone else. That's the dirty secret of US Healthcare.

    KGB

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,999 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Scofie said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    Comparing cover swaps to medical care is a pretty fantastic example of the sort of bizarre entitlement I just love to see. Painting the ultra elite of the game as victims (won't someone think of the billionaires top 10 alliances?). Maxed out MPQ characters are (probably, I'm not an ethics professor?) not a fundamental human right.

    But the metaphor works quite well here if you flip it around. In this case, the top .01% of players have had to give up their gold-plated top secret insurance that paid for absolutely everything, but 99.99% of players now have access to a service that, while maybe a bit less gold-plated, is a big improvement over what they had before.

    As someone who loves a good analogy and story, I very much enjoyed @Daredevil217 's post and I doubt they were comparing the importance of healthcare to MPQ and it almost feels like you were deliberately misinterpreting to make a point...

    Just as a pedantic footnote to your analogy, they haven't had to give up the gold-plated top secret insurance, they just have to pay more for it and wait 4 weeks for treatment.

    I'd have enjoyed it quite a bit more if he hadn't derailed it to take additional, junior-high-quality shots at me. Entitled people really don't like getting called out for their privilege, I guess? I'm pretty sure he does think cover swaps are equivalent to health care -- these players take MPQ very seriously.

    And yes, it's truly unfortunate that the top .001% will have to pay something and wait a bit. I'm really just glad that others now get access to the system -- I know they are not.

    Anyway none of this matters now. The change has been made, and it's not being undone. None of the complainers will ever actually quit, or even stop spending. The concern-trolling about "this will kill the game!" happens after every single change.

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,999 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 22 December 2024, 22:43

    Edit: took out the stuff that I think will trigger EB.

    But to the actual point, I understand why some are vehemently against losing the old system and I can see why others (or even the same people) would be overly enthusiastic about the new one. I see them as two completely separate things being packaged together personally (hence the eye doctor/heart doctor analogy).

    I feel like there are a lot of different ways to enjoy/play the game and for those that do so competitively, this is a blow. I don’t think it will stop those dastardly F2Ps that are sending D3 to the poor house causing the downfall of the game. But I bet it frees up a ton of Customer Service time and allows the game an additional revenue source by monetizing something that once existed for free AND something that we didn’t have at all before. So I get it.

    I guess like with any change, we’ll see how it all unfolds.

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,287 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Daredevil217 said:
    But I bet it frees up a ton of Customer Service time and allows the game an additional revenue source by monetizing something that once existed for free AND something that we didn’t have at all before. So I get it.

    I don't believe anyone is going to spend actual cash on these swaps. All that will get spent is HP that are earned. As I noted in another thread, every time you take 3 latest to 550, the 60K HP earned from champ rewards will let you take an older 450 to 550 via swaps.

    So at best it's draining virtual resources out of the game so there will be less repeated clearing of other vaults.

    KGB

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,999 Chairperson of the Boards

    @KGB said:

    @Daredevil217 said:
    But I bet it frees up a ton of Customer Service time and allows the game an additional revenue source by monetizing something that once existed for free AND something that we didn’t have at all before. So I get it.

    I don't believe anyone is going to spend actual cash on these swaps. All that will get spent is HP that are earned. As I noted in another thread, every time you take 3 latest to 550, the 60K HP earned from champ rewards will let you take an older 450 to 550 via swaps.

    So at best it's draining virtual resources out of the game so there will be less repeated clearing of other vaults.

    KGB

    You don’t think any mega whales would buy Starks to get the new character boost? I’m sure there will be some.

    @Scofie said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Scofie said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    Comparing cover swaps to medical care is a pretty fantastic example of the sort of bizarre entitlement I just love to see. Painting the ultra elite of the game as victims (won't someone think of the billionaires top 10 alliances?). Maxed out MPQ characters are (probably, I'm not an ethics professor?) not a fundamental human right.

    But the metaphor works quite well here if you flip it around. In this case, the top .01% of players have had to give up their gold-plated top secret insurance that paid for absolutely everything, but 99.99% of players now have access to a service that, while maybe a bit less gold-plated, is a big improvement over what they had before.

    As someone who loves a good analogy and story, I very much enjoyed @Daredevil217 's post and I doubt they were comparing the importance of healthcare to MPQ and it almost feels like you were deliberately misinterpreting to make a point...

    Just as a pedantic footnote to your analogy, they haven't had to give up the gold-plated top secret insurance, they just have to pay more for it and wait 4 weeks for treatment.

    I'd have enjoyed it quite a bit more if he hadn't derailed it to take additional, junior-high-quality shots at me. Entitled people really don't like getting called out for their privilege, I guess? I'm pretty sure he does think cover swaps are equivalent to health care -- these players take MPQ very seriously.

    And yes, it's truly unfortunate that the top .001% will have to pay something and wait a bit. I'm really just glad that others now get access to the system -- I know they are not.

    Anyway none of this matters now. The change has been made, and it's not being undone. None of the complainers will ever actually quit, or even stop spending. The concern-trolling about "this will kill the game!" happens after every single change.

    I consider myself pretty observant, and I didn't consider any of the comments as an attack at you. Similarly I didn't consider any of your comments a personal attack either. Maybe I just lack the appreciation of the subtlety of both your barbed comments but I don't see how either of you can get so annoyed by the other. I think both of you have interesting views on the same situation.

    I can say I didn’t feel attacked, personally. There are times when he will make comments about the posters and not the post (“entitled, whiney, privileged, complainers”, etc.) or just argue a point I’m clearly not making (like the health care thing which I’m glad other people- yourself included- understood).

    For example, saying “I'm pretty sure he does think cover swaps are equivalent to health care”… the guy has an absolute WEALTH of knowledge about the game and its history. I’m not really interested in his thoughts on me personally or what he thinks I believe or how seriously I take the game- and am sure others aren’t that interested in it either lol. But if anyone is… feel free to PM me! But I understand if you can’t really argue any of the points I’m making to just talk about me instead.

    Nothing he says to me feels like an attack because I know most the things he says about me aren’t true. Some probably are. But I don’t need to waste time talking about me when we can talk about the game instead. And that’s my only issue. When it derails the thread and only because I feel bad for other posters who have to sift through the back and forth. I know I’m culpable (and clearly seem to get under his skin, which I apologize for) and so am trying to just ignore anything that feels like an obvious derailment.

    But ALL of that said, the guy does provide a unique perspective and some insightful thoughts, and when he operates in that space, I’m right there with you in enjoying his posts.

    This is the last I’ll post on the EB topic because like I said, I don’t want to derail the actual topic and turn it into the DD/EB show! But I wanted to say I too don’t take anything he says personally (and apologize again if he felt attacked). Now let’s all break bread and match some gems!

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,999 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 23 December 2024, 01:13

    @Daredevil217 said:

    @KGB said:

    @Daredevil217 said:
    But I bet it frees up a ton of Customer Service time and allows the game an additional revenue source by monetizing something that once existed for free AND something that we didn’t have at all before. So I get it.

    I don't believe anyone is going to spend actual cash on these swaps. All that will get spent is HP that are earned. As I noted in another thread, every time you take 3 latest to 550, the 60K HP earned from champ rewards will let you take an older 450 to 550 via swaps.

    So at best it's draining virtual resources out of the game so there will be less repeated clearing of other vaults.

    KGB
    @Scofie said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Scofie said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    Comparing cover swaps to medical care is a pretty fantastic example of the sort of bizarre entitlement I just love to see. Painting the ultra elite of the game as victims (won't someone think of the billionaires top 10 alliances?). Maxed out MPQ characters are (probably, I'm not an ethics professor?) not a fundamental human right.

    But the metaphor works quite well here if you flip it around. In this case, the top .01% of players have had to give up their gold-plated top secret insurance that paid for absolutely everything, but 99.99% of players now have access to a service that, while maybe a bit less gold-plated, is a big improvement over what they had before.

    As someone who loves a good analogy and story, I very much enjoyed @Daredevil217 's post and I doubt they were comparing the importance of healthcare to MPQ and it almost feels like you were deliberately misinterpreting to make a point...

    Just as a pedantic footnote to your analogy, they haven't had to give up the gold-plated top secret insurance, they just have to pay more for it and wait 4 weeks for treatment.

    I'd have enjoyed it quite a bit more if he hadn't derailed it to take additional, junior-high-quality shots at me. Entitled people really don't like getting called out for their privilege, I guess? I'm pretty sure he does think cover swaps are equivalent to health care -- these players take MPQ very seriously.

    And yes, it's truly unfortunate that the top .001% will have to pay something and wait a bit. I'm really just glad that others now get access to the system -- I know they are not.

    Anyway none of this matters now. The change has been made, and it's not being undone. None of the complainers will ever actually quit, or even stop spending. The concern-trolling about "this will kill the game!" happens after every single change.

    I consider myself pretty observant, and I didn't consider any of the comments as an attack at you. Similarly I didn't consider any of your comments a personal attack either. Maybe I just lack the appreciation of the subtlety of both your barbed comments but I don't see how either of you can get so annoyed by the other. I think both of you have interesting views on the same situation.

    Now let’s all break bread and match some gems!

    Absolutely agreed. I saw you removed some stuff, I removed some other stuff, let's call it a day.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,999 Chairperson of the Boards

    @KGB said:

    @Daredevil217 said:
    But I bet it frees up a ton of Customer Service time and allows the game an additional revenue source by monetizing something that once existed for free AND something that we didn’t have at all before. So I get it.

    I don't believe anyone is going to spend actual cash on these swaps. All that will get spent is HP that are earned. As I noted in another thread, every time you take 3 latest to 550, the 60K HP earned from champ rewards will let you take an older 450 to 550 via swaps.

    So at best it's draining virtual resources out of the game so there will be less repeated clearing of other vaults.

    KGB

    I think it's possible some will spend on this, yeah. Remember that one player's roster that was kicking around here in screenshots for awhile, and everyone thought they were cheating? That player was apparently legit, and had just spent an obscene amount of money in a relatively short time.

  • ArchusMonk
    ArchusMonk Posts: 211 Tile Toppler

    @entrailbucket said:

    Anyway none of this matters now. The change has been made, and it's not being undone. None of the complainers will ever actually quit, or even stop spending. The concern-trolling about "this will kill the game!" happens after every single change.

    I 100% agree with what you said here, but I wonder if you truly believe it yourself. I remember going back and forth with you over the introduction of supports into PVP. You thought it was ruining PVP and that players were going to “lose their agency”. At one point I basically said what you said above that supports are here to stay in PVP, and it wasn’t being undone. The hyperbole got so ridiculous, I just had to stop responding to that thread. Months later and the game is still around. Now, I agree with you that this change isn’t going to kill the game either.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,999 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 23 December 2024, 02:48

    @ArchusMonk said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    Anyway none of this matters now. The change has been made, and it's not being undone. None of the complainers will ever actually quit, or even stop spending. The concern-trolling about "this will kill the game!" happens after every single change.

    I 100% agree with what you said here, but I wonder if you truly believe it yourself. I remember going back and forth with you over the introduction of supports into PVP. You thought it was ruining PVP and that players were going to “lose their agency”. At one point I basically said what you said above that supports are here to stay in PVP, and it wasn’t being undone. The hyperbole got so ridiculous, I just had to stop responding to that thread. Months later and the game is still around. Now, I agree with you that this change isn’t going to kill the game either.

    I actually was just thinking about that!

    I couldn't have been more wrong. I meant to go back and post in that thread.

    I was concerned about free AP supports creating too many turn0 wins in PvP (and I still don't think that was a completely ridiculous thing to be concerned about!)...turns out those are almost totally unusable now, once everyone figured out the metagame! It was the defensive supports, the ones most of us didn't even consider at the time, that ended up really changing things.

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,287 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 23 December 2024, 02:19

    @Daredevil217 said:

    @KGB said:

    @Daredevil217 said:
    But I bet it frees up a ton of Customer Service time and allows the game an additional revenue source by monetizing something that once existed for free AND something that we didn’t have at all before. So I get it.

    I don't believe anyone is going to spend actual cash on these swaps. All that will get spent is HP that are earned. As I noted in another thread, every time you take 3 latest to 550, the 60K HP earned from champ rewards will let you take an older 450 to 550 via swaps.

    So at best it's draining virtual resources out of the game so there will be less repeated clearing of other vaults.

    KGB

    You don’t think any mega whales would buy Starks to get the new character boost? I’m sure there will be some.

    I guess they might (I presume you are speaking of the case where they already have 2 of the 3 at 550 and they want to 550 the newest release so what to do with the dups of the other 2 already at 550).

    Given we know people like EB often have multiple duplicate 370s on their roster and that you get 6 covers per 370 they might already have 30+ covers on day 1 and be a fair way toward 550 before drawing in Latest / Release store so they may not need that many swaps.

    Plus who even knows how much HP those mega-whales have. They could easily have millions of HP from all those stark buy clubs and simply dip into their almost infinite stash of HP without caring.

    KGB

  • Seph1roth5
    Seph1roth5 Posts: 434 Mover and Shaker

    It's not even about getting on the 550 train forever. If I were to unhoard for 3 LL I really want, I could get super unlucky and get 2 to 550, and the other at like...530 with a bunch of covers on the vine. Now I have to pay 13k HP or waste 20 covers? Or suck up a roster slot with dupes that will maybe get a few champ levels in the next year?

    It seems like they want to keep the 550 from being ongoing, which is why they put such a penalty on LL. Oh right, it'd be 20k HP if I wanted to do LL lol.

    They shouldn't try 50 different ways to stop 1 aspect, hurting all the other ways this system could be implemented and NOT suck. Put a 1-season timer on swapping 5s or something.

  • Kiko131713
    Kiko131713 Posts: 4 Just Dropped In
    edited 23 December 2024, 04:48

    Thank tou DEVS for giving what more than 99% of the players wanted. A legit cover swap for all levels. Now you should put a limit of tokens held in the LL, CL and other vaults. End with the hoarding g process. Then we will be ready for 6 stars in the near future.

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