Introducing the All-New Cover Exchange System!

Bzhai

@StanleyBurrell said:

Nothing like a free “service” being changed to yet another way to monetize while we can still only buy five boosts at a time..maybe that’ll have a premium as well.

You can count on it. Look at season pass, they just took the regular seasonal vault, stripped away all the good stuff (ascended characters and hp) and slapped on a 1500 hp price tag.

I won't be surprised when they start charging hp for health packs too. And it will coincide with whatever new pvp 'feature' they're planning.

LavaManLee

@Bzhai said:
I won't be surprised when they start charging hp for health packs too. And it will coincide with whatever new pvp 'feature' they're planning.

Not sure if this was sarcasm or not but they already do charge HP for Health Packs. Or maybe I am missing something?

GrimSkald

I'll be honest, one of the reasons I didn't avail myself on the Customer Exchange service very much was because on each email they stated "we're currently running a limited time service to allow players to exchange their duplicate unusable 5-star Comic Covers for ones that they can use for characters in their roster." I fully expected it to go away at any point, possibly without any in-game thing to replace it, and I would be stuck holding on to a lot of extra covers. I might have done that in early December if Namor moved into the Latest pool, but to be honest I probably didn't have enough excess to do more than cover up for some bad luck -- I doubt I would have had enough for all three (700ish pulls at the start of the season, though none of the three characters were below 460 due to double-dipping.)

Functionally, so long as I'm willing to stop pulling after I get a 550, that's no different from a system without any cover exchange at all. Sure, it will take me extra seasons to get all of the Latest pool there, but they will get there and unless I end up with a lot more of any particular one, I probably wouldn't need to make any cover exchanges at all.

Phumade

@LavaManLee said:

@Bzhai said:
I won't be surprised when they start charging hp for health packs too. And it will coincide with whatever new pvp 'feature' they're planning.

Not sure if this was sarcasm or not but they already do charge HP for Health Packs. Or maybe I am missing something?

probably referring back the the 10 that automatically refill over time vs just buying 30heathpacks for $3 deal

Bzhai

@LavaManLee said:

@Bzhai said:
I won't be surprised when they start charging hp for health packs too. And it will coincide with whatever new pvp 'feature' they're planning.

Not sure if this was sarcasm or not but they already do charge HP for Health Packs. Or maybe I am missing something?

You're right, brain fart on my part. It's been a while since I needed to buy health packs, still sitting on my 300+ stash. But you see my point, everything nowadays requires hp. I feel sad for new to moderate rosters, these new features are very beneficial to them but they're already struggling to buy new roster slots.

Bullroarer

@entrailbucket said:

@Daredevil217 said:
That last part was a joke, which I thought I made pretty clear (yeesh). The question I’m asking is did they poll the tens of thousands of players before making the change to the game economy? I really could have missed it so don’t remember. If not, then where are they getting feedback from?

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about or why and at this point I don't care.

I won't answer anything else in this thread -- keep using it as an echo chamber for the top .01% of players to complain about something that only hurts them and is a big, positive development for everyone else.

Happy holidays to everyone!

This is not an echo chamber for anybody.

Everybody is entitled to give their views, and I've certainly seen a range of them here.

From my point of view, throughout this discussion you've said several things that I feel are inaccurate and unhelpful, and that's why I've spoken up here, which is something I rarely do.

I'll address those things yet again. I hope that this is the last time that I have to do it.

1. LLS swaps were/are important to how the game was/is played, and have been for most of the time the game has existed. And they were available to everybody.

Such swaps weren't secret, and they were available to everyone.

They weren't just known to and used by a handful of players, as you have so often said or implied here.

2. LLS swaps were a great levelling mechanism within the game.

Using LLS swaps as they had worked for the last six years would allow any player to both minimise the waste of covers within the LLS and to champion and even max level champion some classic characters (and perhaps the new release) at no additional cost.

This would allow any player to save up their resources and to catch up/get close to the big boys.

That entire catch-up system was taken away at the same time as the CES was announced.

Anybody who had been diligently saving for an opportunity to use it had the rug pulled out from under their feet, with no warning that it was going to happen.

Many of those players would be free to play or lower spenders, some who have saved their resources for years.

You constantly talk about the "top .01%" and "top .0001%" but I doubt that those players would consider themselves in that echelon.

Also, it's pretty clear from your words here that you don't care about the LLS swaps change because you use them or ever intend to use them but I bet you'd feel differently if you were one of those who'd been saving their resources with the intention of using LLS swaps in the near future.

3. As announced, the CES didn't allow LLS swaps at all. Making it an even greater barrier for entry for catch-up players.

The CES as it was announced didn't allow any swaps within the LLS, let alone from them to other 5★ characters, and it's only been player feedback that has led to it being reinstated.

You'd probably disagree but the near instant change in policy and dropping of prices of some of the CES swaps suggests that there was a significant backlash from a considerable number players.

It also suggests that the developers hadn't really thought their joint CES/LLS swaps announcement through as well as they could have.

4. You exaggerate your position/deny the positions of others by suggesting that only a few people are opposed to the change to the LLS swaps.

In your messages here you've talked about the "top .01%" and "top .0001%".

.01% is one hundreth of 1%. That's 1 in 10,000.

.0001% is one ten thousandth of 1% that's 1 in a million.

Now I don't claim to know the precise number of active MPQ players, or the number who've used LLS swaps at least once, but I do know that your numbers are a ridiculous exaggeration.

At best that kind of exaggeration is silly. At worst it's deceptive and unhelpful.

5. You dismiss those voicing concern as being somehow entitled/spoilt.

Again, everybody is well within their rights to speak up about anything, especially something that affects them directly.

The LLS swaps change is huge. You don't see it as huge because you don't see it as affecting you, but, as I've tried to explain, it affects us all, because it was the driving force for a considerable amount of hardcore high roller spending, and that hardcore high roller spending helps make the game viable.

Those are players (customers) that the game simply can't afford to lose.

I don't consider myself among them — I think that my spending on MPQ is relatively modest — but I know enough of them to know that some of them are reconsidering their relationship with MPQ because of this change, and that worries me.

6. Strong opposition to how LLS swaps have been handled is not the same as opposition to the CES.

This perhaps is the most important of all the points I want to make.

You've painted this as a ".01%"/".0001%" vs everybody else kind of situation but it isn't like that at all.

You can love the CES but hate the LLS swaps change.

In fact, I'd argue that most people who hate the LLS swaps change fit that description.

As I have said before, 99% of the strong opposition seems related to the LLS swaps alone.

(Yes, that 99% is probably a slight exaggeration, as I'm sure that there are those who want CES swaps to be cheaper as well. But I don't see many people making that point, either here or elsewhere, and when I do it's usually being made by the same people who are appalled by the LLS swaps change.)

It's my firm belief that reinstating the old system/costs or replacing it with something much closer to how it worked successfully for six years would make almost everybody very happy.

TL:DR version: it's possible to make almost everybody happy simply by fixing the LLS swaps issue.

Apologies to everybody for yet another long post.

Suffice to say that I strongly dislike having my words twisted and my position misrepresented, and will speak up for myself (and others) when that happens.

DAZ0273

@revskip said:

@entrailbucket said:

@revskip said:

@Bullroarer said:
5. The change to how Latest Legends Store swaps will be handled is a separate but related issue that hasn't been properly addressed yet.

Being able to swap excess covers within the LLS and then, once all three of those characters were at level 550, outside of the LLS at no cost was a part of the game.

It might not have been a well-documented part of the game, but after being available for six years (which is 55% of the game's existence, and 67% of 5★s characters' existence) it was, whether some people liked it or not, an undeniable part of the game.

Those LLS swaps were the driving force for a lot of good stuff, including a significant amount of player spending and a fierce loyalty to the game that most game developers would kill to see.

None of the big spenders I know are happy with the change to the LLS swaps. Their opposition might not bother you but it should, because they're exactly the kind of players (customers) that MPQ can't afford to lose...

Very well stated. I'm sure the contraction of spending at the top level of play is being looked at by the devs. I hope they do right by the big spenders who pay to keep the servers running and the game continuing to develop. Love this game and don't want to see it shuttered. I don't know what percentage of the the bottom line the buy clubs are but seeing that stream dry up entirely is scary as someone who wants to keep playing.

The buyclubs have gone "on strike" before in response to various changes...the issue is keeping up that kind of solidarity among a decent-sized group (who are all in competition) for a long enough period of time to make a difference.

In the past they haven't been able to maintain it for very long.

And in the past there have been changes that came when that revenue stream closed. Shardmas was the last time I remember. That was under different management so this might be the first exposure to it that BCS has seen. There is an awful lot of money spent in the buy clubs every day. Turning off that revenue stream for a month doesn't seem healthy.

How do you know this has anything to do with BCS? Ice is still around isn't he? I am pretty sure he was here for Shardmas too.

DAZ0273

@entrailbucket said:

@revskip said:

@entrailbucket said:

@revskip said:

@Bullroarer said:
5. The change to how Latest Legends Store swaps will be handled is a separate but related issue that hasn't been properly addressed yet.

Being able to swap excess covers within the LLS and then, once all three of those characters were at level 550, outside of the LLS at no cost was a part of the game.

It might not have been a well-documented part of the game, but after being available for six years (which is 55% of the game's existence, and 67% of 5★s characters' existence) it was, whether some people liked it or not, an undeniable part of the game.

Those LLS swaps were the driving force for a lot of good stuff, including a significant amount of player spending and a fierce loyalty to the game that most game developers would kill to see.

None of the big spenders I know are happy with the change to the LLS swaps. Their opposition might not bother you but it should, because they're exactly the kind of players (customers) that MPQ can't afford to lose...

Very well stated. I'm sure the contraction of spending at the top level of play is being looked at by the devs. I hope they do right by the big spenders who pay to keep the servers running and the game continuing to develop. Love this game and don't want to see it shuttered. I don't know what percentage of the the bottom line the buy clubs are but seeing that stream dry up entirely is scary as someone who wants to keep playing.

The buyclubs have gone "on strike" before in response to various changes...the issue is keeping up that kind of solidarity among a decent-sized group (who are all in competition) for a long enough period of time to make a difference.

In the past they haven't been able to maintain it for very long.

And in the past there have been changes that came when that revenue stream closed. Shardmas was the last time I remember. That was under different management so this might be the first exposure to it that BCS has seen. There is an awful lot of money spent in the buy clubs every day. Turning off that revenue stream for a month doesn't seem healthy.

Oh definitely it's not healthy. The shard thing is the only example I can think of where a change was undone, though. It's just...not super easy to keep a group like that united for all that long. If the next 5* is super strong it'll put a lot of pressure on them.

When they took CP out of PVP progression? That got rolled back under heavy fire from players.

DAZ0273

@Kross said:
I have ben playing this game for years (3697 days), no where close to even one 550 character.

I thought the cover swap on LLs ended years ago, which was when I stopped doing it.

So for me this change does not really mean anything, other than I think I could now probably get a 1 star ascended to 5 stars quicker.

Anyone else not really care? Or am I in the minority?

I'm on 3242 and am right there with you buddy. I find it difficult to believe that 550 players can't afford the HP tax if needed and so it is adapt or quit I guess. I will say the inability to get LL characters was a stupid move by the Devs but that is now fixed and so players can still 550 new releases if they have the resources which no doubt a large majority of those in buy clubs do.

It's like the old Amazon day thing when MPQ was part of it and then one day it wasn't. It was never promised that would last forever and relying on it was at a player's own risk. I see this as the same.

GrimSkald

I really don't see how the Cover swaps were really that impactful for anyone who didn't assemble an extremely large hoard. If you go with an average of 1 of each 5★ for every 20 pulls (based on the 15% draw chance, this is what you're likely to get in the long run,) and assume you've got each of the 5★ to 450 from shards (big assumption, I know, but it does make the math neater,) then it would take, on average, 2000 pulls to max out all three of the 5★ in the current pool. Could be more, could be less -- it will be more if you didn't get a full 5★ to play with from shards, and less if you got to "double dip," but either way it will probably only be another 200-300 pulls. We can safely say somewhere between 1700 and 2300 pulls will do the trick.

I don't know about you, but that's a lot. I haven't reliably tracked my CP/Token income, but I do track my actual pulls per day -- I keep a "log" of my LT pulls because a long time ago someone wanted that information, and it does allow me to break out some very interesting info. "Average pulls/day over the last 1000 pulls" is one of the things I have on every line, and it's usually in the low teens, sometimes it creeps as high as 20. So you can safely assume my "pull income" is somewhere around 10-20 pulls per day (based on the average of litterally everything.) I just put in a one-time calculation of the last 10,000 pulls (a bit under half my pulls since 2016,) and it came out to just under 14, let's call that our number.

So if one's "pull income" is 14 pulls per day, it would take 143 days to get that 2000 pulls. So a bit under 5 months. That's not a huge heck of a lot, but it's still a lot. If you want to fully cover and level another 5★ we'll need another 700ish pulls, so that's another 50 days - a month and a half.

It's a lot, and I really don't see it being the sort of thing one would do more than once or twice. The advantage you get out of it (being able to play a 550 megaboosted character for a month) is nice, but not that nice if you have a well developed group of 550s - unless the boosted new 550 outclasses that week's boost list, you're not going to end up using it.

revskip

@GrimSkald said:
I really don't see how the Cover swaps were really that impactful for anyone who didn't assemble an extremely large hoard. If you go with an average of 1 of each 5★ for every 20 pulls (based on the 15% draw chance, this is what you're likely to get in the long run,) and assume you've got each of the 5★ to 450 from shards (big assumption, I know, but it does make the math neater,) then it would take, on average, 2000 pulls to max out all three of the 5★ in the current pool. Could be more, could be less -- it will be more if you didn't get a full 5★ to play with from shards, and less if you got to "double dip," but either way it will probably only be another 200-300 pulls. We can safely say somewhere between 1700 and 2300 pulls will do the trick.

I don't know about you, but that's a lot. I haven't reliably tracked my CP/Token income, but I do track my actual pulls per day -- I keep a "log" of my LT pulls because a long time ago someone wanted that information, and it does allow me to break out some very interesting info. "Average pulls/day over the last 1000 pulls" is one of the things I have on every line, and it's usually in the low teens, sometimes it creeps as high as 20. So you can safely assume my "pull income" is somewhere around 10-20 pulls per day (based on the average of litterally everything.) I just put in a one-time calculation of the last 10,000 pulls (a bit under half my pulls since 2016,) and it came out to just under 14, let's call that our number.

So if one's "pull income" is 14 pulls per day, it would take 143 days to get that 2000 pulls. So a bit under 5 months. That's not a huge heck of a lot, but it's still a lot. If you want to fully cover and level another 5★ we'll need another 700ish pulls, so that's another 50 days - a month and a half.

It's a lot, and I really don't see it being the sort of thing one would do more than once or twice. The advantage you get out of it (being able to play a 550 megaboosted character for a month) is nice, but not that nice if you have a well developed group of 550s - unless the boosted new 550 outclasses that week's boost list, you're not going to end up using it.

I only used the swap system once, it was earlier this year when the Aunt May / Jubilee / May Parker trio was in LL. I saved CP and tokens for about a year and a half and had roughly 1200 LL tokens and 25k in CP. It did take me a really long time to build up those resources and I play in a fairly competitive alliance and play PvP to top 10/25 frequently. I'm not a big spender compared to what many of the top players spend, I have done VIP since it has been out, have done a couple of stark buys in buy clubs and occasionally other small spends.

The folks at the top of the game were spending a lot more and got a lot more CP so the hoards they could put together in a year were pretty huge. They also accumulate a lot more 4* and 5* covers so their LL accumulate a lot quicker. They also spend a lot of money which is what keeps this game running. The biggest spenders could put a hoard like mine together in about 2-3 months instead of a year and a half.

I never begrudged them having shiny new toy because they are literally what keeps the servers running so I can play this game competitively at a very cheap price and others can play it absolutely free. The folks who were hurt most by the LL swaps going away are the very folks who pay to keep the lights on and that revenue stream drying up is very concerning because I like this game and hope to keep playing for years to come.

killahKlown

Bro i don't know where your math came from but it takes me on average about 300 pulls to max a 5*

revskip

@killahKlown said:
Bro i don't know where your math came from but it takes me on average about 300 pulls to max a 5*

Your starting line is likely a lot higher than his. If the new 5* has a feeder anyone with a maxed 4* starts at 7 covers. 2 maxed 4*s and you are already ready to champ. The big rosters like yours use fewer resources now because they used more in the past.

Bullroarer

@GrimSkald said:
I really don't see how the Cover swaps were really that impactful for anyone who didn't assemble an extremely large hoard. If you go with an average of 1 of each 5★ for every 20 pulls (based on the 15% draw chance, this is what you're likely to get in the long run,) and assume you've got each of the 5★ to 450 from shards (big assumption, I know, but it does make the math neater,) then it would take, on average, 2000 pulls to max out all three of the 5★ in the current pool. Could be more, could be less -- it will be more if you didn't get a full 5★ to play with from shards, and less if you got to "double dip," but either way it will probably only be another 200-300 pulls. We can safely say somewhere between 1700 and 2300 pulls will do the trick.

I believe that you've forgotten 5★ shards when you pull from the LLS.

The 3 5★ shards per pull and bonus 5★ shards add up.

Also, as well as 5★ covers from the LLS, players can get two covers of each new 5★ from boss events, plus around 1500 5★ shards from PVE and PVP events.

On top of that, most players will earn some covers and shards of the new 5★s when they are first released from retro rewards.

I usually only get 3-4 covers worth but some of my alliance teammates get 12 or more.

Between the bonus shards and the various other cover and shard sources, I believe that 1200-1500 pulls were enough under the old LLS swap system to get all three 5★s in the LLS to level 550.

Remember, every other 5★ champion level gives a LLS token or 25 CP, so you earn lots more pulls from them, and from 4★ champion levels, along the way, and those too can be spent in the LLS as part of the unhoard.

GrimSkald

@killahKlown said:
Bro i don't know where your math came from but it takes me on average about 300 pulls to max a 5*

The math works out almost exactly, actually -- at one cover per 20 pulls (for each 5★) 300 pulls is 15 each -- enough to cover and a tiny bit more for bad luck.

But a lot of people don't start from zero due to feeders and getting shards from play, so it's very variable.

GrimSkald

@Bullroarer said:

@GrimSkald said:
I really don't see how the Cover swaps were really that impactful for anyone who didn't assemble an extremely large hoard. If you go with an average of 1 of each 5★ for every 20 pulls (based on the 15% draw chance, this is what you're likely to get in the long run,) and assume you've got each of the 5★ to 450 from shards (big assumption, I know, but it does make the math neater,) then it would take, on average, 2000 pulls to max out all three of the 5★ in the current pool. Could be more, could be less -- it will be more if you didn't get a full 5★ to play with from shards, and less if you got to "double dip," but either way it will probably only be another 200-300 pulls. We can safely say somewhere between 1700 and 2300 pulls will do the trick.

I believe that you've forgotten 5★ shards when you pull from the LLS.

The 3 5★ shards per pull and bonus 5★ shards add up.

Also, as well as 5★ covers from the LLS, players can get two covers of each new 5★ from boss events, plus around 1500 5★ shards from PVE and PVP events.

On top of that, most players will earn some covers and shards of the new 5★s when they are first released from retro rewards.

I usually only get 3-4 covers worth but some of my alliance teammates get 12 or more.

Between the bonus shards and the various other cover and shard sources, I believe that 1200-1500 pulls were enough under the old LLS swap system to get all three 5★s in the LLS to level 550.

Remember, every other 5★ champion level gives a LLS token or 25 CP, so you earn lots more pulls from them, and from 4★ champion levels, along the way, and those too can be spent in the LLS as part of the unhoard.

I didn't, but I almost always shunt my shards to an older 5★ that I don't have as high as a like since I always assume I can get the current crop of 5★ as high as I want before I stop pulling. I also didn't account for the fact that pulls lead to more pulls, that averages to about 1/5 (or 20%, if you like percentages better,) so that will also shave a few weeks off of the months you will need to hoard.

Still, my underlying point is that this is a significant commitment of resources for what is what I perceive to be a slight advantage for a limited period of time. Am I wrong in this?

entrailbucket

@Bullroarer said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Daredevil217 said:
That last part was a joke, which I thought I made pretty clear (yeesh). The question I’m asking is did they poll the tens of thousands of players before making the change to the game economy? I really could have missed it so don’t remember. If not, then where are they getting feedback from?

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about or why and at this point I don't care.

I won't answer anything else in this thread -- keep using it as an echo chamber for the top .01% of players to complain about something that only hurts them and is a big, positive development for everyone else.

Happy holidays to everyone!

5. You dismiss those voicing concern as being somehow entitled/spoilt.

Again, everybody is well within their rights to speak up about anything, especially something that affects them directly.

The LLS swaps change is huge. You don't see it as huge because you don't see it as affecting you, but, as I've tried to explain, it affects us all, because it was the driving force for a considerable amount of hardcore high roller spending, and that hardcore high roller spending helps make the game viable.

Those are players (customers) that the game simply can't afford to lose.

I don't consider myself among them — I think that my spending on MPQ is relatively modest — but I know enough of them to know that some of them are reconsidering their relationship with MPQ because of this change, and that worries me.

I really was done here, but I'd like to add that I totally agree with these points, and have said as much earlier.

I have never opposed special treatment for these players. The sort of player who sits down and rips 10 starks in a sitting, several times a week, should get absolutely everything they want, with no conditions. They should be able to call the devs to express specific concerns. They should get input on the future of the game. They should get gifted extra stuff if they have an unlucky streak. (These were all things available to the whales I knew, who spent that at those levels).

The game and its devs should do everything possible to keep the biggest spenders happy, and if these folks don't like the new system they should get the old one back -- but only for them.

My issue with the swaps has always been that they should've been available to those folks, and should never have been available to anyone else. VIPs get VIP treatment. Nobody else is entitled to that. If you treat everyone like a VIP, it's no longer a benefit for actual VIPs.

If they do put the swaps back, they should create a spend limit (either lifetime or per year) to qualify for the service. This will resolve everyone's concerns about revenue, and hopefully keep the whales around for many years to come.

Fwiw I'd qualify for any such limit if it was based on lifetime spend. I've got 87 550s as of today, and most of my 5* are 500+. I'm pretty close to a day 1 player, who was involved in setting up many of those communities you're talking about, and participated in them for many years. I've never swapped a single cover, because I don't care about getting the most powerful or newest characters -- I want everyone.

I'm still on Line, although it's private now (after the 100th or so death threat I got from upstanding community members upset about being attacked in the game, it got kind of tiresome). Eventually I realized the massive-cooperation playstyle was a mistake -- we should never have created it. I'm interested in playing with fun characters, making fun teams, and enjoying the gameplay these days, and I'm much happier for it.

Oh -- and I mentor new players too. My alliance went public awhile back because we couldn't recruit anymore. We always banned buyclubs and mercing, and the new generation of players weren't interested in that sort of team play. We get all sorts of brand new folks now (sometimes on their first day), and the advice I give them is "just have fun." Don't worry about who's the best, or the fastest, or how to win the most. Figure out which characters are fun for you and what playstyle is the most fun and do that. And the second you stop having fun, even for a day, quit and don't look back.

Bullroarer

@GrimSkald said:

@Bullroarer said:

@GrimSkald said:
I really don't see how the Cover swaps were really that impactful for anyone who didn't assemble an extremely large hoard. If you go with an average of 1 of each 5★ for every 20 pulls (based on the 15% draw chance, this is what you're likely to get in the long run,) and assume you've got each of the 5★ to 450 from shards (big assumption, I know, but it does make the math neater,) then it would take, on average, 2000 pulls to max out all three of the 5★ in the current pool. Could be more, could be less -- it will be more if you didn't get a full 5★ to play with from shards, and less if you got to "double dip," but either way it will probably only be another 200-300 pulls. We can safely say somewhere between 1700 and 2300 pulls will do the trick.

I believe that you've forgotten 5★ shards when you pull from the LLS.

The 3 5★ shards per pull and bonus 5★ shards add up.

Also, as well as 5★ covers from the LLS, players can get two covers of each new 5★ from boss events, plus around 1500 5★ shards from PVE and PVP events.

On top of that, most players will earn some covers and shards of the new 5★s when they are first released from retro rewards.

I usually only get 3-4 covers worth but some of my alliance teammates get 12 or more.

Between the bonus shards and the various other cover and shard sources, I believe that 1200-1500 pulls were enough under the old LLS swap system to get all three 5★s in the LLS to level 550.

Remember, every other 5★ champion level gives a LLS token or 25 CP, so you earn lots more pulls from them, and from 4★ champion levels, along the way, and those too can be spent in the LLS as part of the unhoard.

I didn't, but I almost always shunt my shards to an older 5★ that I don't have as high as a like since I always assume I can get the current crop of 5★ as high as I want before I stop pulling. I also didn't account for the fact that pulls lead to more pulls, that averages to about 1/5 (or 20%, if you like percentages better,) so that will also shave a few weeks off of the months you will need to hoard.

Still, my underlying point is that this is a significant commitment of resources for what is what I perceive to be a slight advantage for a limited period of time. Am I wrong in this?

Under the old system, it used to be more efficient to favourite one the three 5★s in the LLS, get them to 550 and then request swaps of excess 5★ covers and shards.

If those excess 5★ covers and shards went towards getting meta 5★s to level 550 the advantage wasn't slight, nor was it temporary.

The optimal thing to do was to save well past the point you needed to just take the three 5★s in the LLS to level 550, and to only dive in once there was one or more "can't miss" characters in it.

Excess swaps could then be used on the very best classic 5★s, such as Aunt May, Colossus, Kang, Omega Red, Shang-Chi, and Thor (MT).

At level 450 those characters are great. At level 550 they're superb, and having just a few of them at maximum level 550 can completely transform your game, and not just for a few months.

The change to LLS swaps makes such a thing much harder, because the large price tag put on each swap makes it much more difficult to pull level with the best of the best.

Of course, there's more to having a great roster than just meta 5★s. Supports are a big part of the equation, and a few lower tier characters ascended to the 5★ tier have also entered the conversation.

Zarqa

@entrailbucket said:

My issue with the swaps has always been that they should've been available to those folks, and should never have been available to anyone else. VIPs get VIP treatment. Nobody else is entitled to that. If you treat everyone like a VIP, it's no longer a benefit for actual VIPs.

This is objectively not true. There are so many posts here on this forum where you’ve advocated that there should be more transparency from the Devs about the swaps, so that more people knew about it and everyone could and should (!) benefit from it.

LavaManLee

@Zarqa said:

@entrailbucket said:

My issue with the swaps has always been that they should've been available to those folks, and should never have been available to anyone else. VIPs get VIP treatment. Nobody else is entitled to that. If you treat everyone like a VIP, it's no longer a benefit for actual VIPs.

This is objectively not true. There are so many posts here on this forum where you’ve advocated that there should be more transparency from the Devs about the swaps, so that more people knew about it and everyone could and should (!) benefit from it.

Just came here to mention this.

On Dec 13, @entrailbucket said:
"Sure, but what about players who had no idea the "old system" even existed (because it wasn't documented in game, or on the forum, or even officially acknowledged anywhere)?

It wasn't "available to all" -- that's the point, and that's the problem I've had with this since Day 1. If it was documented and publicized, that'd be a different story. This was kept secret, and only shared with folks who were in the know."