Introducing the All-New Cover Exchange System!

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Comments

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,999 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 24 December 2024, 23:26

    I didn't express any opinion whatsoever about a secret player council. I certainly wouldn't want to play this game if the top .0001% of all players were the only ones giving input, though!

    What if there's a group of much more casual players giving input regularly? How would you know? How many brand new players do you talk to, and why would anyone tell you about it anyway?

    Worse, what if the developers just don't care what the top .01% think?

    "They're not talking to players" just means "they're not talking to me, or anybody I know." Maybe you (and all the players you know) are just not that important!

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,999 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 25 December 2024, 01:00

    @Bullroarer said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    I didn't express any opinion whatsoever about a secret player council. I certainly wouldn't want to play this game if the top .0001% of all players were the only ones giving input, though!

    What if there's a group of much more casual players giving input regularly? How would you know? How many brand new players do you talk to, and why would anyone tell you about it anyway?

    Worse, what if the developers just don't care what the top .01% think?

    "They're not talking to players" just means "they're not talking to me, or anybody I know." Maybe you (and all the players you know) are just not that important!

    I don't want to be unkind here, especially at Christmas, but, with the greatest of respect, your arguments seem to be all over the place.

    I'm sure that they seem quite logical to you but to me they seem anything but.

    Perhaps it's you, perhaps it's me, or perhaps it's a little bit of both.

    I'm genuinely mystified about how you took my suggestion that the developers provide more transparency about the future direction of travel of the game as an invitation to start talking about secret councils, though.

    You wrote a giant thing complaining that they made this change without talking to players, and I asked "how do you know they didn't talk to players?"

    You don't. You can't know that. You do know that they didn't talk to you, or any of your friends.

    But, maybe they just don't care what you think. Maybe this change polled at 99% approval among lower tier players -- the kind you don't talk to and never will talk to.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,999 Chairperson of the Boards

    I didn't mean to make anybody mad, although I figured "gee, have you considered that you might not be the center of the universe?" wouldn't go over too well. None of "the communities" are particularly large and most of them are just the same sort of players.

    Anyway, sorry, but "they didn't ask me!" is in no way equivalent to "they didn't ask anyone!" Other players might like things you don't -- maybe even a majority of them!

  • Kross
    Kross Posts: 113 Tile Toppler

    I have ben playing this game for years (3697 days), no where close to even one 550 character.

    I thought the cover swap on LLs ended years ago, which was when I stopped doing it.

    So for me this change does not really mean anything, other than I think I could now probably get a 1 star ascended to 5 stars quicker.

    Anyone else not really care? Or am I in the minority?

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,999 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Kross said:
    I have ben playing this game for years (3697 days), no where close to even one 550 character.

    I thought the cover swap on LLs ended years ago, which was when I stopped doing it.

    So for me this change does not really mean anything, other than I think I could now probably get a 1 star ascended to 5 stars quicker.

    Anyone else not really care? Or am I in the minority?

    I don't think you're in a minority at all. The number of players who care about this is tiny, and I also couldn't care less about it.

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,999 Chairperson of the Boards

    Great posts.

    What I recently realized is that people tend to expose themselves. I don’t always have to point out the bad faith takes, hypocrisy, personalization, assumptions, conspiracy theories, taking things out of context, etc. If I see it, everyone else probably does too.

    Second, if you keep running into the same “misunderstandings” with several different people, it’s possible you’re the problem. Maybe not, but it’s something you should at least consider.

    Third, there are certain people that are SO tunnel-visioned and rigid in their thinking that no matter what, they will say whatever- even if it makes no sense- to be “right”. They’re not interested in understanding others’ perspectives or having a discussion. They just want to beat the same drum… over… and over. To the point that you see a thread title and you know exactly who is going to post and what they’re going to say (several times) almost word for word.

    There was one now banned poster we all know well, whom I went back and forth with often who checked all these boxes. I think he sort of “got off” on being contrarian and there are always going to be people that are like that- especially on message boards. I’m actually one of them in real life. Everyone goes left, I’ll purposely go right. So I have an affinity for the rebel types or those who play devils advocate or offer just a different POV. While I appreciate that spirit I just want better execution lol. If you’re going to be contrarian… make more salient points. Or maybe just sit one out every once in awhile (this is advice I myself need to remember… sometimes it’s best not to engage).

    Anyway, I’m generally grateful for this community. Even if we don’t see eye to all the time, we all share a love and passion for this game for our own individual reasons. At the end of the day, it’s all love and it’s like one big dysfunctional family :)

    Wishing you all happy holidays.

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,999 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Colognoisseur said:
    There are multiple forms of feedback the devs get. There are the numerous surveys some of which have a box for further thoughts. There is actually a feedback email address. Then there are the moderators here and on Discord. All of these flow to those making decisions.
    No secret handshake required.
    To return to the topic. I think this system is an improvement for everyone who is not a 5* player.
    When you are playing and you’re told 3* Strange is the best 3* to have. The ability to turn your umpteenth cover on a champed 3* towards the one you really want. That’s going to make those in that early 3/4 zone happy. Faster paths to the characters they believe will allow them to progress. As a guess this new system was designed for that based on feedback they received.
    Now to the majority of complaints here about 5*. For non LL 5* this is also an improvement. Right now there is little reason to have a dupe 5*. For those who have a small collection of the best 5* instead of making a dupe they can instead grow one of their other 5*. My opinion is the new price is still too high because the resources that go into getting a 5* cover should make this less expensive not more. It’s unlikely outside of our biggest spenders this will be used widely because you’re just not going to have that many chances.
    The 550 train players have a right to feel annoyed. The reason we are here I believe is because there have been multiple errors made by the devs. The first was not shutting down the free swap to the latest 5* when you have all three LL’s at 550. The customer service person who made that error in the first place should’ve been told that’s not our policy and ended it. Instead like so many things that go on for a long while it is now expected and the cause of some of the irritation at the upper tier. This has also caused BCS to have to spend more money on customer service support than they expected. The amount of requests has probably added to the cost of paying for customer support and this system is an attempt to lessen that cost.
    As a player with a decent amount of 550’s what I would like to see is among the three LL characters swaps at a price around 100-250hp. There would be no swapping to the newest 5*. Those only will become available when it rotates into LL. The swap price for non LL 5* should be 500hp. This is not going to be a widespread event for most at this tier.
    I hope we get something close to this.

    While I agree with all of this, I don’t see any of it changing. I think we are where we are right now. Adjusting it once can be viewed as “listening to player feedback”, but adjusting it a second time teeters on the players running the show and not the developers. It may set a precedent they don’t want.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,999 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Timemachinego said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Kross said:
    I have ben playing this game for years (3697 days), no where close to even one 550 character.

    I thought the cover swap on LLs ended years ago, which was when I stopped doing it.

    So for me this change does not really mean anything, other than I think I could now probably get a 1 star ascended to 5 stars quicker.

    Anyone else not really care? Or am I in the minority?

    I don't think you're in a minority at all. The number of players who care about this is tiny, and I also couldn't care less about it.

    If it were a tiny change, why would we be at 14 pages of replies? Why are you still piping in if you don't care? The majority of posts on this subject have been substantive and considered, whether I agree with them or not.

    This game has tens of thousands of daily players. How many players' opinions are accounted for in those 14 pages of replies? Besides, a 14-page change isn't very much in the grand scheme of things, I think true healing was 50+.

    I'm still piping in because...uh...hmmm. Dunno. It's just been the same opinion over and over again for awhile now. It's probably not worth continuing to reply to the 15th person saying exactly the same things.

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,999 Chairperson of the Boards

    Serious question. Did we get a poll about the cover exchange system after it went live? Otherwise how is it that a team as small as MPQ’s got feedback from the tens of thousands before making changes? Im repeatedly told how we don’t matter, but perhaps it’s possible the devs do care about what the passionate minority/hardcores who post on the socials think?

    Or maybe they ignored this thread and instead consulted with the SCNP (Secret Council of New Players) before making changes?

    Okay my serious question took a left turn. I’ve gone half passed Daz and a quarter to Clem. But seriously, none of this makes sense!

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,999 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Daredevil217 said:
    Serious question. Did we get a poll about the cover exchange system after it went live? Otherwise how is it that a team as small as MPQ’s got feedback from the tens of thousands before making changes? Im repeatedly told how we don’t matter, but perhaps it’s possible the devs do care about what the passionate minority/hardcores who post on the socials think?

    Or maybe they ignored this thread and instead consulted with the SCNP (Secret Council of New Players) before making changes?

    Okay my serious question took a left turn. I’ve gone half passed Daz and a quarter to Clem. But seriously, none of this makes sense!

    It's Christmas, man.

    I didn't say there is a secret anything of anyone -- talk about willfully misinterpreting. I asked how anyone could know that there wasn't such a group, or that they're not talking to players regularly.

    They didn't solicit feedback from you or from anyone you know. How can you possibly know that they didn't solicit feedback from anyone, though?

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,999 Chairperson of the Boards

    That last part was a joke, which I thought I made pretty clear (yeesh). The question I’m asking is did they poll the tens of thousands of players before making the change to the game economy? I really could have missed it so don’t remember. If not, then where are they getting feedback from?

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,999 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Daredevil217 said:
    That last part was a joke, which I thought I made pretty clear (yeesh). The question I’m asking is did they poll the tens of thousands of players before making the change to the game economy? I really could have missed it so don’t remember. If not, then where are they getting feedback from?

    I honestly have no idea what you're talking about or why and at this point I don't care.

    I won't answer anything else in this thread -- keep using it as an echo chamber for the top .01% of players to complain about something that only hurts them and is a big, positive development for everyone else.

    Happy holidays to everyone!

  • Scofie
    Scofie GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,400 Chairperson of the Boards

    Happy holidays everyone! In the interests of goodwill to all men, women, children, animals, plants and aliens, I'll do my best to summarize @entrailbucket's point about communication:

    Nobody except the dev team know who they discuss plans for the game with. I certainly don't. Just because we don't know, doesn't mean it isn't happening. This is similar to the Falsification principle - you can't prove that something didn't exist; see Popper's swans as an example.

    Taking that to its logical conclusion, if a conversation was happening, it could be a discussion with anyone that you don't know about. Nobody has claimed there is a secret group of players that have a direct line to the team to discuss future game-changing ideas (aside from Discord, of course.. 😉). But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist (see above point).

    Summary: It is entirely possible to argue that something could exist without believing it exists. It is also fine to hypothesize about what the different variations are of things that don't exist, if they did exist. I think that sometimes eb writes in terms of absolutes or uses blunt language to make a point and I think that's why there is an allergic reaction to his posts sometimes.

    FWIW, I think @Bullroarer's initial post was an excellent and well-balanced summary and there are some really interesting views from @Daredevil217 and many others over the course of the thread, including @entrailbucket because I am closer to his playstyle (but not his roster!) than the top-ranking players so I recognize where he's coming from. I'd really be sad if all those views got lost in an argument over hypotheticals, though.

  • StanleyBurrell
    StanleyBurrell Posts: 144 Tile Toppler

    @Bullroarer said:
    Some observations:

    1. The Cover Exchange System is likely here to stay.

    Whether you like it or not, the chances are that it's not going anywhere.

    2. Just because the CES here to stay that doesn't mean that it can't be adjusted.

    It's been adjusted once already, it can be adjusted again.

    I'd argue that it should be adjusted again, and sooner rather than later.

    3. Players are well within their rights to question the CES, its costs, and its long-term implications.

    The CES represents a significant paradigm shift, for everybody. Every player has the right to speak about how it might affect them (and others).

    4. The CES is another way to focus on the levelling of a few specific characters, albeit at a HP cost.

    Casual players might appreciate fewer "wasted" covers of characters they don't like.

    More hardcore players might appreciate the ability to accelerate the levelling of meta 2★, 3★ and 4★ characters to level 550 5★s.

    I don't believe that introducing the CES was necessary but at the same time I can see its appeal to some players.

    5. The change to how Latest Legends Store swaps will be handled is a separate but related issue that hasn't been properly addressed yet.

    Being able to swap excess covers within the LLS and then, once all three of those characters were at level 550, outside of the LLS at no cost was a part of the game.

    It might not have been a well-documented part of the game, but after being available for six years (which is 55% of the game's existence, and 67% of 5★s characters' existence) it was, whether some people liked it or not, an undeniable part of the game.

    Those LLS swaps were the driving force for a lot of good stuff, including a significant amount of player spending and a fierce loyalty to the game that most game developers would kill to see.

    Changing those LLS swaps and not replacing them like-for-like within the framework of the CES was a slap in the face to the many who had used it or planned to use it.

    Those who were planning to use it in the near future — especially those who were diligently saving their LLS tokens and CP for years, and were planning to do so for the first time — are arguably the ones who've been hurt most by this change.

    6. 99% of player opposition to the CES stems from the removal of LLS swaps.

    If you replicate the old system, or something close to it, then 99% of the player opposition will go away.

    7. If some changes to the LLS swaps are absolutely needed then it would be better to phase them in over time.

    Ideally, the LLS swaps would go back to being as they were but if they have to be monetised (via HP cost) then it would be better if that cost was minimal/nominal and/or if that change was introduced six months or more from now, to give players time to adjust and adapt to the change.

    Personally, I would be okay if swaps within the LLS were free and if those to characters outside the LLS trio were around 250 HP.

    I wouldn't be ecstatic over it but I believe that it would a reasonable compromise that most players who've used LLS swaps or who planned to do so would accept.

    8. If such a major change to the game is being considered in the future then the least the developers could do is consult with the player base before making it.

    One sure way to turn a successful business into a failed one is to make a major change without even talking to them first.

    That's a sure fire way to alienate your customers, especially your biggest customers, and perhaps even drive them away.

    Being honest and upfront is far more productive, even if the news you have to give them isn't good (prices are going to have to go up, etc).

    Customers will appreciate a frank conversation about things, and be more willing to absorb changes, if they understand the need for them.

    The people running this game would do well to consider that approach in the future.

    PS, for those that are interested in my particular situation, to understand my biases, etc, I play in a top 10 alliance and I've used the LLS swaps once in the three and a half years that I've played this game.

    Via my alliance and ones like it, I know players who spend a lot, and I know players who spend nothing. Most either hate the change to LLS swaps, have concerns about the CES, or both.

    None of the big spenders I know are happy with the change to the LLS swaps. Their opposition might not bother you but it should, because they're exactly the kind of players (customers) that MPQ can't afford to lose...

    PPS, the one thing we all have in common is that we enjoy playing MPQ and want it to thrive.

    Man this is a great post and I couldn’t have articulated it better myself. I have nothing constructive to add but will say in my limited pool of players I’m friendly with I haven’t met a soul that likes this.

    Nothing like a free “service” being changed to yet another way to monetize while we can still only buy five boosts at a time..maybe that’ll have a premium as well.

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