Grist needs nerfing. And a lot of it.

Tremayne

@Mainloop25 - thank you for your feedback.

I’m sorry, but I’m going to stop here for two reasons.
1. You obviously do not think there is a connection between the PW and the cards, in regard to the problems with the powercreep. You seem to think that it is only the cards that is the issue. I can’t agree to that
2. I agree that could supply more data, but without knowing the required level of data before your accept my claim, I see no reason begin supplying it.

Mainloop25

@Janosik said:

@Mainloop25 said:
More people will be upset than not, and I don't think they can afford to upset the paying customer base at this point.

I do wish the content creators would stop presenting their opinions about what every player thinks as objective fact, and I worry that because they have such a close relationship with Webcore, Webcore are more likely to take their words on face value. Please remember that some of us are actually out here talking to players while the content creators are spending hours squirrelled away in their video production dens wrestling with editing software!

Oh is that what you think we're doing? I'm in every Discord server talking to players all the time. I guarantee you I play this game, along with cards and walkers, more than you too.

Meanwhile, you're stuck in your discord talking to the same 5 miserable people lamenting the incoming death of the game for almost a decade now, and when you're not doing that, you're screaming to 7 people on your YouTube channel about how much every card sucks and how no one but you knows what they're doing.

Get out of your cave every so often, man.

Mainloop25

@Tremayne said:
@Mainloop25 - thank you for your feedback.

I’m sorry, but I’m going to stop here for two reasons.
1. You obviously do not think there is a connection between the PW and the cards, in regard to the problems with the powercreep. You seem to think that it is only the cards that is the issue. I can’t agree to that
2. I agree that could supply more data, but without knowing the required level of data before your accept my claim, I see no reason begin supplying it.

1. Then we agree to disagree.

2. If you have the data, it's probably to everyone's benefit to share it, whether or not it's to prove me wrong shouldn't matter.

gozmaster

@Janosik said:
I do wish the content creators would stop presenting their opinions about what every player thinks as objective fact, and I worry that because they have such a close relationship with Webcore, Webcore are more likely to take their words on face value.

Ok @shteev , I again will start with the word "respect"....

**1. "Content Creators' Opinion = Objective Truth" **

So we're clear, prior to surveying my server, I offered my feedback as 'my take" I would never presume to offer it as anything other than that, or speak on behalf of the whole of the player base.

But I asked my server (which has MANY of the other team's leadership, yourself included), and after measuring the responses (over 200 opinions cast). yes many feel She needs a nerfing... However...

The OVERWHELMING majority (2 to 1) was "NO NERF".

Now... Is this a complete representation of the player base?

Of course not, not even close.

But we can only work from what data we can collect.

Even on this thread... If you count the votes (which i did) it's a slight favor to "not nerf".

Again just a handful of people... but still in that trend line.

So, "Objective truth" ? Of course not... But we have to use the data we're presented with to point towards the consensus, don't we?

Does this sample discredit the "call to nerf". Of course not,

...but to ignore the MAJORITY of people saying to leave it alone, simply because you and you're circle think it should be nerfed is just as short sighted, isn't it?

2. Because we're sponsored, we're not valid?

@Janosik said:
Please remember that some of us are actually out here talking to players while the content creators are spending hours squirrelled away in their video production dens wrestling with editing software!

C'mon Shteev. What are you doing? lol

Who do you think I'm chatting with in my server all day? Just people from my coalition, and the CCs?

lol

We have nearly 400 players in there, from MOST of the other alliances, it's good neutral spot for players to get advice and help. It's a humble spot, but from what I'm told, one of the MOST active servers for PQ in discord.

More important, you think for a SECOND because we're making videos, we don't take this all very seriously?

Because we're sponsored, that somehow diminishes our opinions' value or passion for what's good in the game?

C'mon man. Don't do that.

You're better than that.

No dude, Our opinion is just as valid as yours, despite us being corporate shills, we'd be playing the game and having the same thoughts, sponsored or not.

Don't get hurt if I don't always agree with you.

I can disagree and still respect your position.

Strength and honor my man.

Tremayne

@gozmaster - you have definitely been disrespectful in several of your post in this thread, which I among others have called you out for.
The last post is definitely better. Thank you for that.

I get the impression that @Sarah and @Janosik is frustrated that some players have a direct connection to WebCore while they and most other players have to settle for fourth rate communication on this forum. That is not your fault, but when you communicate with such a superior attitude to the plebs then feathers might become a bit ruffled. Please keep that in mind.

Then you decide that your source material is superior to janosik’s, not good man. Though I acknowledge that you may be right, but I don’t have data to say either way.

Your view is just as anecdotal as the rest of us! Something you seem to recognise on the one hand while on the other you dismiss it, in order claim your opinion is superior to the rest of us. You might well have asked 400 persons (or what ever the number of respondents is) but apparently if you don’t have hard data on these forums your opinion will be ignored. (Speaking from experience here).

Some of the suggestions, like limiting the mana cost of the creatures that Grist can resurrect has been very reasonable, but I don’t know if that has even been discussed before you made your poll. As it stands now Grist has a significant edge in the mana race, because Grist can save so much mana by using very little loyalty to resurrect so expensive creatures.

Sarah

Thanks for articulating that so clearly @Tremayne

I am frustrated that my anecdotal evidence is dismissed as merely opinion while his anecdotal evidence is touted as objective fact. The double standard is irritating.

I am also frustrated that such a small group of favored players who may or may not be biased (I mean, we all have our biases don’t we?) gets active communication while those of us on the forums have to beg for crumbs.

Sarah

Wow @Mainloop25 I think that you might actually be the one in an echo chamber, dude. It's nearly impossible to tell whose videos are whose these days since it's just the same out-of-touch people talking to each other yet again about the same company-sponsored talking points.

gozmaster

@Tremayne , Well said indeed, and yes. re reading my original post, as I said. before... no intention of disrespect, but I can clearly see how it can be taken that way (I won't edit to clarify my meaninggs to let others see for themselves what it was/is) ...

And yes, my follow up posts have had a VERY conscious focus on being clearer. And I feel MOST of this misunderstood back and forth would be MUCH better in an in-person conversation, (maybe a live stream if you all are up for it, that would be fun)

(Typing is OBVIOUSLY not my strength )

That said... I want to clarify my points as they are still not coming across correctly based on your take

First , I'm not saying my data is in any way "Superior" to Shtev's, (And I'm finding it hard to read it that way, but I hear you) of course it isn't,

I'm saying I'm not seeing his data (I was "un-invited" from the FTA server lol) so Of course, I got no eyes on that. So the ONLY info I can work from is what's here on the forum and my own servers.

And the data I'm presenting, as I said in my previous reply, isn't anywhere near a complete representation of the player base, it's way too small (IMO)

However based on the interactions here on this thread and the only other data I have, my personal server

...Paints a picture that favors "not nerfing" by quite a sizable margin.

Does that mean, that a nerf isn't needed? Not at all.

Does that diminish the feelings/findings of those calling for the nerf? No, of course not.

We're giving our opinions here folks....All of us, passionately. But that's all they are.

My challenge with this dialog, it feels my views (or those of the other content creators) are dismissed because I'm sponsored?

What?

Because I'm given cards to review, my points aren't just as valid?

To quote Christopher Walken....

Wow.

Look, i know the critics here PROBABLY aren't watching my videos, so you assume I'm only ever gushing over our overlords at webcore... But that just isn't true man, if anything i get a LOT of comments from folks saying, dude... aren't you afraid they'll pull your sponsorship? (Did we NOT see the bashing I/we gave the last Kaito? lol) ...

Nah fam... I'm only ever honest on what I'm getting from the Core to review... And to discount my views simply because I'm sponsored, well that's a little basic man.

My point of posting the um... "counterpoints' to the title of this thread is simple...

... to make sure that the voices heard on the matter AREN'T only those that are calling for the nerf.

That's all.

So if that is coming across as... Disrespectful, I'm in no way intending that. But I'm being as direct as I can about the matter, and doing my best to clearly state my points, backed with what little data and info i can gather.

And as has been stated before... Aren't we looking for more engagement and conversation on the forum?

Well here I am.

And apologies, as I've been very absent from this medium, but you guys are right, this is an important place to share our thoughts and feedback with the devs, so let's go. I'm in.

As an individual. A player, and a fan.

Again, in no way trying to invalidate the concerns of those with.. uh... concerns.

I'm actually glad we're all able to have this conversation here cause again, I can't make these points in the FTA servers. So here's as good as anyplace.

At any rate... I see more comments have come in since I've written this, but I have a hot date to get to, I'll talk you all on the flip side.

Strength & Honor Yall.

gozmaster

@Sarah said:
... It's nearly impossible to tell whose videos are whose these days since it's just the same out-of-touch people talking to each other yet again about the same company-sponsored talking points.

So you are watching the videos?

Cool!, thanks for your viewership!

Sarah

@Mainloop25 said:

Meanwhile, you're stuck in your discord talking to the same 5 miserable people lamenting the incoming death of the game for almost a decade now, and when you're not doing that, you're screaming to 7 people on your YouTube channel about how much every card sucks and how no one but you knows what they're doing.

Get out of your cave every so often, man.

@Magic:PQ Support Team is this how the content creators think of people who aren’t in their special club? They talk a lot about how they are a wholesome group that lifts each other up and how happy they would be if there were more content creators but the way they talk about people who have less viewers shows nothing but contempt.

Do you think that this attitude will encourage more content creators or will it discourage them? I think it will discourage them.

gozmaster

@Sarah said:
Do you think that this attitude will encourage more content creators or will it discourage them? I think it will discourage them.

I mean, Nalthazar and I RARELY see eye-to-eye on stuff (like.... Never lol) but we get along fine.

I welcome more content creators, especially those I disagree with...

I love Shteev's stuff.... I've promoted his videos on my server, I've made thumbnails for his YT videos, I even feature him on my Channel as someone to follow... (He LITERALLY just popped in a few minutes ago to poke fun at me on my server, I love it lol)

...What else can I do?

I've said to you , repeatedly, I'd LOVE to see you make a content channel on Youtube, I would LOVE to hear your voice on matters in the CC space.

I mean, read the threads here.

Shteev and I OBVIOUSLY don't have the same opinion on cards/walkers/game play/life/Etc..

I love that.

I love conversation about what makes something good and what makes it lame.

Cause at the end of the day, He, I , Nalthazar, Even Mainard... All have VERY different play styles, and so does the player base.

So the more views, perspectives and takes on deckbuilding and game planning we can get, the better it is for the community, and the better those players are represented.

I'd LOVE for all to get along and sing Slaye... er "Kumbaya"...

And My server, is an open place for you to come and voice that stuff to me directly. Or here on the forum, Cool, this is fine.

But, guys I don't have to like you to respect you.

I don't have to agree with your points to be cordial?

Do I? (I mean, I'm not getting that vibe here at least lol) But maybe that's me...

Now to My Main Man's Comment...

Sarah, let's be honest, getting pecked at like has been going on in these threads the last few days can def grind on a person's patience, wouldn't you agree?

I mean... Shteev had a slip too "... go play with your video editing software" lol. That's PRETTY direct...

Look, I'm not speaking on behalf of, or for Mainard, I'm sure he meant what he said...

But cmon , let's not play innocent here...

We're all VERY passionate about this silly game, and that's great.

I think we all can agree... this back-and-forth has been going on for a while now... and tempers flare, and we'll have to forgive a frustrated loss of "etiquette" from time to time, yeah?

I try to at least.

Again...

It's a game.

Have fun my friends lol.

Now to ... TAXES!!!! Yay!

Janosik

@Sarah said:

@Mainloop25 said:

Meanwhile, you're stuck in your discord talking to the same 5 miserable people lamenting the incoming death of the game for almost a decade now, and when you're not doing that, you're screaming to 7 people on your YouTube channel about how much every card sucks and how no one but you knows what they're doing.

Get out of your cave every so often, man.

@Magic:PQ Support Team is this how the content creators think of people who aren’t in their special club? They talk a lot about how they are a wholesome group that lifts each other up and how happy they would be if there were more content creators but the way they talk about people who have less viewers shows nothing but contempt.

Do you think that this attitude will encourage more content creators or will it discourage them? I think it will discourage them.

Steady on... I think Mainard T. Loop might have had his tongue in his cheek just a little ^_^

I think it's pretty obvious that what we've been doing here is demonstrating how easy (and fruitless!) it is simply to undermine the credibility of what your opponent says in a debate with a few weasel words and misrepresentions rather than addressing what's actually been said that's relevant to the topic.

Let's maybe stop doing that now tho

Sarah

Fair enough. I am obviously a bit on edge as I am overly anxious about playing my nodes in doomskar—I’ve traditionally been unlucky with freezes in this event so I’m more than a little bit nervous about “letting the team down.”

gozmaster

Here Here. Well said @Janosik

gozmaster

@Sarah said:
Fair enough. I am obviously a bit on edge as I am overly anxious about playing my nodes in doomskar—I’ve traditionally been unlucky with freezes in this event so I’m more than a little bit nervous about “letting the team down.”

Yeah, this is on everyone's mind, My advice to my team was, play, have fun, do your best and count your freezes, I think we all learned from WC's quick response last time of "Double Events" , that making too hasty a reaction doesn't go over well...

So, I THINK they're following @Janosik 's advice of just "leave it" and let's all face the same horrible fate together.

I'm hopeful Support will be able to address/compensate the player base for the snafu. but that will have to be seen.

"let's just keep on going, Louise" - Thelma.

Sarah

@gozmaster said:

I've said to you , repeatedly, I'd LOVE to see you make a content channel on Youtube, I would LOVE to hear your voice on matters in the CC space.

Goz, this is exactly what I am talking about; you seem to believe that the ONLY worthwhile way people can contribute to the community is via youtube videos. In another thread you said that you respected the work I do for the community in regards to coordinating the various unofficial places players may go for information about the game. On the one hand you acknowledge that this work is both difficult, time consuming, and valuable... and yet because I don't also make youtube videos my ideas aren't worth listening to.

naabaldan

@gozmaster
maybe a live stream if you all are up for it, that would be fun

Yeah, a very good idea.

gozmaster

@Sarah said:
Goz, this is exactly what I am talking about; you seem to believe that the ONLY worthwhile way people can contribute to the community is via youtube videos.

Um... No. Podcasts, are cool too look, at Nerd Thuggary.

I'm joking. Sarah lol, OF COURSE the written stuff you do is INCREDIBLY significant, you wouldn't have the awesome people in FTA if it wasn't. Right?

In another thread you said that you respected the work I do for the community in regards to coordinating the various unofficial places players may go for information about the game. On the one hand you acknowledge that this work is both difficult, time consuming, and valuable...

Yeah, 100%. Amazing work. So much effort to organize and facilitate that wiki, I've seen it first hand, CRAZY effort. yes.

...and yet because I don't also make youtube videos my ideas aren't worth listening to.

AH! Here we are, the HEART of the matter

First, Um... no lol, I never said that. Of course I'm listening to you, we're chatting here, aren't we?

I did say "youtube", you're right, but I meant Any Live Audio/Video option that works for you... to be seen/heard.

I 'd LOVE to HEAR your opinions. To SEE your face as you convey this stuff... , to see your approaches to playing the game, by you ACTUALLY playing the game.

That would be dope!

I was simply saying I'd LOVE to put a face/voice to those ideas. A female video/audio "content" creator would be amazing!

I want NOTHING more than a female to step up and be heard/seen in this space. THAT could entice SO many more female players to the game. Something I could NEVER do (I mean, did you hear my singing? lol)

And like it or not, the anonymity of "text" is just lower in the "trust" factor of content. I mean, for all we know (cause I've never actually seen his face) Shteev could be a talking british goldfish for all we know

And as you've said, MANY times, it's REALLY hard for women in the gaming world. So why not get a female face out there to bring people on? I mean if Nalthazar's mug isn't scaring people off, ladies are going to KILL in viewership. lol

Look, we have a TINY community. (Microscopic in the gaming world) and the BEST chance we have of attracting new players (At least till WC starts some paid promotions, c'mon WC) is by kicking out silly videos/podcasts that MIGHT get a little attention in the online world.

So no Sarah, I'm not saying your efforts aren't massively important, of course they are.

I'm saying it would be GREAT to see/hear you convey all that passion direction and support for the game, (even if it's just "Goz Hate" lol), to a format I think would get new faces looking at the game. (FEMALE FACES)

Ok, Yes, building a new channel from scratch CAN be a BUTT TON of work...

**Butt... it doesn't have to be... **

To be fair, just a regular joining of a podcast with other content creators would be a GREAT start,

(FYI, You have an open invitation to join me any week you'd like, same to you @shteev @Janosik ) I'd LOVE to have you on.

At the end of the day... There is a reason, Youtube is so big, There's a reason podcasts get so much reach, and Netflix gets BINGED for days...

People love the medium.

And in games. People want to be SHOWN (like an 8 year old), how to do a thing.

I know I do, I'm an idiot on doing new things, I learn MUCH better by being shown.

But by not having those channels, do I think your opinion matters less? Of course not.

Are you a "Content creator" .. Of course you are.

I just think creating video/audio "content" would make for great viewing.

Anywho...

Off to go take care of my elder dad, he's alone this weekend, and needs someone to make sure he's not getting into trouble lol.

Have a great weekend guys.

GozMaster

gozmaster

@naabaldan said:
@gozmaster
maybe a live stream if you all are up for it, that would be fun

Yeah, a very good idea.

Right?

Hey. I'm game if they are.

Let me know gang.

Janosik

@gozmaster said:
Shteev could be a talking british goldfish for all we know

Bloop 🐟